[ / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / aus / fur / imouto / kpop / sl / suicide / wooo / zoo ]

/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

Catalog

Browse securely using the 8chan onion. Learn more about tor at the Tor Project.
Currently taking requests for board and account recovery here.
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
Verification *
File *
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
dicesidesmodifier
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 12 MB.
Max image dimensions are 10000 x 10000.
You may upload 5 per post.


A recognized Safe Space for liberty - if you're triggered and you know it, clap your hands!

File: 1427062517692.png (231.6 KB, 500x296, 125:74, b_frank_words_of_wisdom.png)

 No.2[Reply]

Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
http://oll.libertyfund.org/
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
http://mises.org/
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
http://theanarchistlibrary.org
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.
Post last edited at

 No.709

Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.



File: 1427061139157.png (111.83 KB, 500x500, 1:1, political_compass_liberty.png)

 No.1[Reply]

Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.

WELCOME

See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.

Rules

1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

2. "Shills"

While shills may exist, the intense pPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Post last edited at


File: 863a18c777c766a⋯.jpg (95.54 KB, 400x389, 400:389, george-washington-meme-pai….jpg)

 No.54373[Reply]

Economically speaking, what's the best way to get away with 'neet'ism?

Surely it is possible to have a fulfilling life without producing any type of value whatsoever. Even then, I don't think I would do anything worth doing unless I was passionate about it.

6 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54413

>>54373

There are only political means. As long as you want something from someone else without the use of force, you'll have to work and give them what they want. Even plunder requires some kind of effort on your part. There is no other way around it.

You could marry. Sexual economy is still economy. If you're decent breeding material for someone with resources, go for it.


 No.54415

These are all suggestions on how to be the 'perfect' human, based on the perverse idea of living vicariously through someone.


 No.54416

>>54373

Sure but the amount of money you get sent per month is drastically low compared to just getting a real job. If you're serious about it, go to Wizardchan, they have threads about how to collect NEETbux all the time.

>>54410

Do you have any idea how many people are on welfare in america right now? If they woke up one day and found out their checks aren't coming anymore, what do you think is going to happen? There will be mass rioting in the streets.

…actually, that would be pretty awesome.


 No.54417

File: bff771d04b930fc⋯.jpg (142.12 KB, 699x710, 699:710, thug life.jpg)

>>54411

Yeah, It appears I didn't quite read that right.

>>54416

>Do you have any idea how many people are on welfare in america right now?

Yes, I'm aware and It's a fucking travesty, better to end it now then wait for it to just get worse.

>If they woke up one day and found out their checks aren't coming anymore, what do you think is going to happen?

A good portion of them would get off their ass and get a job while the rest would probably bitch, whine, beg and riot. It's inevitable when you fund morally and intellectually inferior people

>…actually, that would be pretty awesome.

Yeah, if you're suicidal.


 No.54451

File: 213c4e1fa99adb3⋯.jpg (62.16 KB, 600x382, 300:191, God cant help you now.jpg)

>>54373

Honostly, if you want to be a successful NEET/weeaboo/other parasite, the nanny state is probably what you would want to gun for politically. Just follow in the footsteps of E-celebs and eternal bloggers and produce as little as possible while still being charismatic enough to gather a rabid following who will pour ad revenue and sympathy dollars into your paypal and youtube accounts, while promoting Berney Sanders and pandering to the ideals of as many people who have disbosable income as possible. basically be MSM 2.0 while still projecting a character for people to latch onto. that and conventional welfare begging should set you up pretty nice.




File: 8eaf58d864ce1a5⋯.jpg (161.95 KB, 1024x857, 1024:857, 1488097625471.jpg)

 No.54267[Reply]

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2uf9b4/eli5_why_is_anarchy_on_the_lefthand_side_of_the/?st=j1xka3dn&sh=c1dc068b

Hey guys reddit here, anarcho-capitalism isn't anarchism :D Anarcho-communism only choice becus anarchism mean no state or capitalism lol…

TL;DR pic related. nuff said. Lol

16 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54432

>>54296

holy shit i made that version of the meme :O can't believe someone saved it


 No.54433

File: bf290ddc03f7192⋯.jpg (3.78 KB, 207x243, 23:27, come on now.jpg)

>>54431

That may have been the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life. It's the equivalent of a meme that glorifies one side over the other but does nothing to actually refute the other side.

> Liberty encompasses private, common, normative, cultural, institutional, monumental and genetic capital

> Libertinism econompasses only private property

>mfw


 No.54434

>>54424

the fact that you don't get shit handed out to you for free isn't the same thing as coercion. If you don't want to participate in the "horrible" capitalist society then don't buy shit, go live on a farm or something

>alternatives and choices are still coercive

lol


 No.54435

File: c044ac27521c5d4⋯.png (92.22 KB, 433x551, 433:551, c044ac27521c5d4302b4158004….png)


 No.54450

>>54268

All of the shilling against actual anarchism, anarchism-primitivism, and ancap is proof they are the only ideologies the governments are truly afraid of.




File: d3915003db4b291⋯.png (543.51 KB, 800x821, 800:821, backsnap_gorilla.png)

 No.54375[Reply]

The ideal work-life balance in a Capitalist society is working 4 hour shifts for no more than 5 days a week, and having the rest of the time for yourself which can be invested in more work hours, training, or just sitting around doing nothing IDGAF. The 40 hour work week is flawed in that it assumes "1/3rd for work, life, and sleep" while ignoring that you have to invest closer to 10-11 hours of your day for every 8 hour shift you work between getting ready, driving, breaks, etc. In reality either you're not sleeping enough, or you have almost no life under the 40 hour work week. Employees are most productive in their first four hours of work, so it would make more sense to push higher quotas over a four hour period instead of the slog that is the 8 or 10 hour work day. A 20 or 24 hour work week would be the ideal work week for probably 60-80% of jobs in first world countries. In fact, I'd posit that we'd already have a 20 hour work week if not for government interference in wages, benefits, etc. making it more beneficial for a business to keep a 40 hour model.

A "late capitalist" society as the filthy commies put it is a beautiful thing as it allows members of it to increasingly produce more wealth over shorter periods of time, ultimately freeing up more and more time for passion instead of being held at gunpoint like they would have me do, fixing their electrical systems 80 hours a week.

https://archive.fo/OBzai

https://archive.fo/qjCPZ

https://archive.fo/T7Bh7

12 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54402

i think you can already move to india and buy at local prices and earn western salary if you work remotely as a programmer for example

and then you can work only a bit to make a good living


 No.54406

ty backsnap gorrila


 No.54443

>>54402

I worked at a theme park and we would have international workers. Some of them were from Thailand and they told me that they will start their own businesses when they go back to their country just from the ~40 times exchange rate.


 No.54444

Without government-enforced overhead per head for employees making it infeasible, I think the more-workers-fewer-hours system might be a solution to the unemployment problem since everyone refuses to budge on minimum wage. But hey, I'm no CEO.


 No.54449

>>54387

>20 hour work week

>things turn so bad due to capitalism that people rise seize the Mop

Oh, yeah, wow, capitalism sure is terrible, am I right? If your ideal society is one where you burn out and work yourself to death, then great, good for you, but you don't have to wait for Dear Leader to send you to a gulag. Just grab a shovel and go outside.




File: e932e940eb1da5d⋯.jpg (43.03 KB, 960x354, 160:59, 17952512_10104109654626195….jpg)

 No.54447[Reply]

I became libertarian because I thought it would help me score chicks. Boy was I wrong. Why do we have the fewest girls of all political ideologies on the political spectrum next to /pol/?



File: 4bc972d380b2cce⋯.png (599.75 KB, 1024x1024, 1:1, Smug Anime 445.png)

 No.43785[Reply]

General thread for Onion Relay folks.

90 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.53659

>>53656

Because if people just return to the same level of happiness, then trying to increase it on the average for large groups of people is scientifically impossible.


 No.53662

>>53659

Okay, then I misunderstood what you meant with the hedonic treadmill. Then you were right about what you said before.


 No.53699

What are some things you guys think are "Red Flags" (not necessarily for a relationship)? E.g.:

- A country not having a stock market.

- People with colored hair.

- Youtube videos with the presenter's face centered in the video.

- Videos that start obnoxiously loud.


 No.54155

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

I remember when I was younger and my father told me a story about how an acquaintance of my grandfather tried to start a garbage company. The competition bribed the police and then burned his garage and his trucks. For me, this was a really formative moment to me becoming an ancap. Until then I was thinking, "What about the police?" That story really helped me put into perspective about how government isn't a magical panacea that solves social problems.

So, what gets me about the VICE documentary to Liberia, is how they repeatedly ask, "Where's the government?" Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "How can you guys have this much cognitive dissonance? The government is already there."


 No.54446

How are there still communists?

I mean, I'm not talking about full-boar fucking ancapistan, but at least just not being a communist/socialist.

From the shit going down in Venezuela right now to Yeltsin visiting that grocery store in downtown Houston, how can you still support communism? I just don't understand how it still persists.




File: 48efb77e26d2979⋯.jpg (20.4 KB, 480x521, 480:521, be29b159a4c57454a530f0fe97….jpg)

 No.54289[Reply]

salam aleikum brothers, this is Stifan m'Allahneux, do not forget to respect the NAP, as dictated by the Prophet (PBUH)

7 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54326

Some historical truth: Islam is very pro-free market, which shariah prohibiting price-fixing and market regulation. It also supports sound money (gold and silver) as the only legitimate form of currency.


 No.54327

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>54326

Some historical truth: the Catholic Church also promoted free market and capitalism.


 No.54330

>>54320

Saddam didn't agree to disarm to the extent that was required and that he had agreed to


 No.54445

>>54326

It was against usury though


 No.54448

File: b7b32ecd0baaaae⋯.png (42.49 KB, 629x411, 629:411, what did he mean by this.png)

can T still be considered a libertarian?

polite sage for off topic




File: e8d0e7de9a1b58d⋯.jpg (488.08 KB, 795x1024, 795:1024, based stickman1.jpg)

 No.53858[Reply]

I've been thinking about this for a while and it's sort of a question that'd been bugging me for a while. Does it really matter if we have free will or if everything is determined? Does it really have an impact on anything in terms of discussion (in regards to Libertarianism, economics, etc)? If it actually does matter, what side do you anons take?

48 posts and 11 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54436

>>54418

>eugenics

no, social upbringing and environment are equally as important as your meme-tier conception of genetics. I'd really like to hear anyone explain how you can account for creating a utopian society of superhumans better than natural selection can. Don't fuck with nature boy.


 No.54437

>>54418

oh and as for the sake of Law, almost any non-barbaric nation leans towards the justice system promoting rehabilitation of members of society over punishment so that they can reform. And as for education lassie faire.


 No.54440

File: 3679dee1809122f⋯.jpeg (88.25 KB, 620x372, 5:3, Camus.jpeg)

>>54428

>why I should trust the local eugenics officer isn't using his powers to kill people he doesn't like without using a reason that isn't "His job was predetermined"

How you feel about it is irrelevant. His actions are not his own nor are your normative judgements whether he should or not do it. It happens because it does. That is just the thing with predetermined conditions. They do not need justification to be. They can't be right or wrong. Anything goes. Everything is inevitable. All action when it comes down to the most important part, the core reason everything else is built upon, is utter absurdity.

>Can you please please tell me your understanding of Determinism

For every event (accent on the "every") ever exist predetermined conditions that could cause no other event.

Essentially, there is no choice. To do something right or wrong you have to have made a choice first. Otherwise, you are just getting angry at existence for being and it has no value whatsoever outside of your emotions, which are not really your own as well.

>>54436

>Don't fuck with nature, boy

We are part of it. Us fucking with nature is nature. Unless you think humanity is an entity in of itself.

>oh and as for the sake of Law, almost any non-barbaric nation leans towards the justice system promoting rehabilitation of members of society over punishment so that they can reform

What they do is without reason if they can not answer why they act correctly. You have to be clearly right or wrong, for any sentence to be based on truth. What produces results more accustomed to our feelings is not objectively correct, making Law, arbitrary.

>And as for education lassie faire

Same thing. Anything goes. You can't justify the results of one system over the other.


 No.54441

>>54440

>We are part of it. Us fucking with nature is nature. Unless you think humanity is an entity in of itself.

this doesn't directly justify eugenics by itself at all, and "humanity" as a term is meaningless, it doesn't exist in the morally codified version you're using. You also can't judge the merits of a person off genetic code solely either, as any standard doing so is purely instrumental.

> What they do is without reason if they can not answer why they act correctly. You have to be clearly right or wrong, for any sentence to be based on truth. What produces results more accustomed to our feelings is not objectively correct, making Law, arbitrary.

your division of right and wrong is based solely on your own conception of morality, people have different moral "compasses" and act differently according to circumstance. Quite frankly I can justify the results of Capitalism over Feudalism based off the massive improvement in QOL that it has brought to people.


 No.54442

File: 553836f90fc9234⋯.jpg (218.87 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 1463338801801.jpg)

>>54440

>How you feel about it is irrelevant

Now, I am saying that those things you mentioned will lower human productivity and living standards, not that they're "Morally" okay

I don't even believe in actual morals but you wanted to ignore that part of my post either because you're retarded or because you're stubborn. Fuck off, christ.

The meta irony here is that if we image a world where people follow your logic and we find another where people don't, we can see the second word is better. Why? Imagine that people don't let killers go around, giving people a motivation NOT to be a killer, which can change the moves people take because we changed the material conditions.

Now, people just have to make the right moves People just have to hope that the moves we make will lead to a world where people don't follow your retarded philosophy.

Thought of the day: Leibnizian optimism(The idea we are in the best of all possible words) is contradictory.

For where people believe the best of all possible worlds has been created, the best of all possible worlds can not be present, unless the human psyche has changed– For people will inevitably become lazy as they realize that they're in the best of all possible worlds.




File: f3935ddd56d6214⋯.png (762.41 KB, 1100x1000, 11:10, 1486945458802.png)

 No.54439[Reply]

/liberty/,

What are your best arguments against (legally codified) affirmative action in schools, jobs, etc?

Bonus points if you can cite something not by Sowell or Walter Williams

pic unrelated



File: bdf6ba48a1647cf⋯.jpg (51.14 KB, 548x768, 137:192, bdf6ba48a1647cf4bca139943e….jpg)

 No.53976[Reply]

https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

>But what specifically established de facto socialism in Nazi Germany was the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936. These were imposed in response to the inflation of the money supply carried out by the regime from the time of its coming to power in early 1933. The Nazi regime inflated the money supply as the means of financing the vast increase in government spending required by its programs of public works, subsidies, and rearmament. The price and wage controls were imposed in response to the rise in prices that began to result from the inflation.

>The effect of the combination of inflation and price and wage controls is shortages, that is, a situation in which the quantities of goods people attempt to buy exceed the quantities available for sale.

>Shortages, in turn, result in economic chaos. It's not only that consumers who show up in stores early in the day are in a position to buy up all the stocks of goods and leave customers who arrive later, with nothing — a situation to which governments typically respond by imposing rationing. Shortages result in chaos throughout the economic system. They introduce randomness in the distribution of supplies between geographical areas, in the allocation of a factor of production among its different products, in the allocation of labor and capital among the different branches of the economic system.

Empathetically, I ask: Why do ancaps believe this unironically?

56 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54340

>>54298

this is what i know from a podcast of Kelthuz

ask him if you want to know more


 No.54379

>>53990

The selected graphs in the first picture demonstrate that the creator does not understand the distinction between socialism and capitalism. If a socialist country were to do well economically one year, that in no way implies that the country was / was not capitalist.

The word "privatization", in English economic parlance, is referring to the private sector. Even in the event that the Nazi's were the first to use the term (which I sincerely doubt), the word would still exist regardless of their existence. Besides that, the physical act of privatization far precedes the existence of nazi germany, with examples in ancient Greece (ex: temple construction).

There's also the problem of "private" not being equivalent from one nation to another. You can argue that Hitler returned businesses to the private sector. However, he simultaneously imposed a greater amount of regulation on them (namely, price and wage controls) and arbitrarily appointed bureaucrats into positions of power within those "private" companies (similar to Mao and Chavez). In comparison to the US, nazi germany's "private" sector would not be considered very private at all.


 No.54380

>>54113

Maybe not equivalent, but socialism is absolutely a subset of collectivism.


 No.54427

>>54046

>Even the mere act of picking up a stone is to exert labor on it; even bashing something on the stone qualifies. And only through these actions can we say that the stone has gotten utility-value.

there's a difference between private and social labor that Marx specifically talked about in the first chapter of the capital.


 No.54438




File: e13c19c1f7056ab⋯.webm (2.87 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, dance.webm)

 No.54364[Reply]

How do I spread /liberty/erian ideology in middle east?

I live in there

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54367

>>54365

>You have to understand that you will be the example of what a Libertarian is to the people you're trying to convince. If you can't become someone to be respected and admired, then don't expect more than 4 people in a room arguing about the proper ethics of hugging according to the NAP.

Underrated piece of advice. I think generosity in particular helps, because the first thing skeptics will tell themselves is that we're just against the welfare state because we're cheap fucks. Contrary to what certified "alphas" will tell you, being generous is not the same as being a pushover. Pointing this out because it's current year, where everything makes you a cuck.


 No.54389

>>54365

I'm ex muslim, currently atheist, so I understand what they feel generally. But I have never been radical, always had a thing for westernism but lately we get radicalized and radicalized, there are getting more peoplke who wants to behead people they don't like.

I never get involved in any crimes, or causing cringe overload atleast I can say I'm not despised or seen as laughingstock.

People in here always blame west or capitalism or communism for their failure, when I try to tell my ideals, they say you say this because you're too westernised, you're richer than us, you are not devout muslim etc. (I can't tell them I'm not muslim).


 No.54394

File: 48efb77e26d2979⋯.jpg (20.4 KB, 480x521, 480:521, 48efb77e26d2979ba21ed11baa….jpg)

You already have everything set. All you have to do is find some verses going in your favor.


 No.54403

where do you live op?


 No.54423

>>54364

>How do I spread /liberty/erian ideology in middle east?

Just look towards the places that genuinely hate their fucking government, like Egypt. The Egyptians have absolutely lost hope for their government and many people (even the rich) have looked toward the black market to solve their problems.




File: 23a4e15bddd3082⋯.jpg (11.19 KB, 500x324, 125:81, 1488592929028.jpg)

 No.54414[Reply]

>HOOPP, which represents more than 321,000 healthcare workers in Ontario, was not immediately available to comment. HOOPP President and Chief Executive Officer Jim Keohane sits on Home Capital’s board and is a shareholder. Home Capital’s external spokesman Boyd Erman declined to comment.

https://archive.fo/Kjxq6#selection-686.0-686.2

what does /liberty/ think about austerity?

 No.54420

>>54414

We've always been against bail outs.

>in Canada home prices never go down

Can't tell if that's a joke or it's actually being presented as some sort of economic law.




File: 928313e4aeacb2e⋯.webm (2.01 MB, 768x576, 4:3, 1490043708823684424.webm)

 No.54419[Reply]

what do you think about anarcho-distributism?



File: 1a6b4cb0227f2be⋯.jpg (51.39 KB, 350x543, 350:543, tumblr_lsu0mddvqu1qlziglo1….jpg)

 No.52295[Reply]

what is your favourite bible passage?

18 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.54351

>>54278

>there is nothing wrong with usuary

its a sin


 No.54362

File: 0e51306baf630d1⋯.png (90.78 KB, 780x420, 13:7, adolf-hitler-the-sjw-comic.png)

>>54032

If someone earns enough money to afford to live without working for a while and decides to do so libertarians have absolutely nothing against it.

There is no enforcement of the "you must work just because" morality. If you don't feel like it and have enough wealth to do so then it's fine. As a matter of fact, this is what those advocating and living minimalist lifestyles and going as much off the grid as possible are trying, to get by with the littlest amount of work so they can enjoy more their freedom.

Such freedom does not exist when you're conscripted into a factory and your pay consists of a daily ration assigned by some bureaucrat and a bullet to your brain if you decide to quit.

>>54351

Only for people that follow shitty religions like christianity or islam.


 No.54363

>>54351

>it's bad, mmkay?


 No.54399

>>54363

>man, whats wrong with fucking killing people, just because the bible says its bad? I guess since the bible is wrong about some things its wrong about this and killing people is okay

usuary is bad, its not bad because the bible says so, but its bad.

I am not saying you should be stopped from doing it by force, just that you shouldnt do it.


 No.54412

File: 0f1a06e8132db01⋯.jpg (36.22 KB, 680x381, 680:381, a58.jpg)

>>54399

did you just compare usury with murder

like wtf man get a hold of urself lmao




Delete Post [ ]
[]
Previous [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25]
| Catalog
[ / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / aus / fur / imouto / kpop / sl / suicide / wooo / zoo ]