/pol/ - Politically Incorrect

>>4856227

>proposed by a group of intellectuals

>intellectuals

who could it be? :^)

The ultimate NEET country

>>4856301

Well read posters from /pol/?

>>4856360

whom could you be? :^)

>>4856330

NEETs that don't need no foreign labor.

>>4856371

A /n/ews reporter that is trying to keep neutral on this attempt at enslaving the freedom loving Swiss.

>>4856396

just keep the guaranteed income out of the hands of non-whites and it will be fine

basic income trials have been conducted in various places.

here are some:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omitara

the 'mincome' trial of dauphin, manitoba is where they found that people don't work less.

the omitara trial was a namibian basic income which was successful, but didn't get government funded. the people in charge figured the government would support it by the time it ran out of money, but the government didn't support it for some reason, so it ran out of money.

>>4856227

>The action committee pushing the initiative consists of artists, writers and intellectuals, including publicist Daniel Straub, former federal government spokesman Oswald Sigg and Zurich rapper Franziska Schläpfer (known as “Big Zis”), the SDA news agency reported.

Ah, so college dropouts and kike hipsters.

>lets create a new name for communsim

>hmm

>i got it!

>"Universal Income" "Guaranteed Income" "Permanent Welfare Checks"

/leftypol/ fuck off

It won't pass. The swiss are not pozzed enough to pass something this stupid.

>>4856478

>(1)

>>4856227

>Every Swiss adult resident

>resident

>not 'citizen'

>resident

WE WUZ WELFARE KANGZ

>>4856478

'taken from others' is not free.

gibsmedat

>>4856500

>(1)

>>4856478

>unless you own nothing and the government owns every single thing you use you are a slave

uh

wait

wait a second!

>>4856449

it's actually a pretty smart way to get rid of all existing welfare programs, social security, various forms of insurance, aids, and all the people working for them.

the way things are now, a minority of people are milking the existing systems hardcore and it would be simpler to just pay everyone the minimum amount necessary to survive.

it should be noted the $2500 these people are trying to receive is much higher than any other basic income. at most i've seen $1000, but only a few hundred is the usual.

>>4856573

>supporting welfare in any form

Leave

>>4856227

>hey, lets further remove the long term incentives for having kids and working

I don't see any potential negative effects from this

>>4856478

>free

I live in switzerland and I can tell you this referendum has no chance, last time we had one about giving 6 weeks mandatory vacation to every employed worker and it got torpedo-ed so hard. Swiss wont even give you 6 weeks free vacation let alone a free gibs me dat income

>>4856227

What is natural selection?

>>4856669

So, I went ahead and watched that clip, becaue I haven't in a moment, and check this shit out.

Jesus Fucking Christ, these people need to be physically removed into ovens.

>>4856605

for what it is, a method to eliminate the current systems and simplify everything in a way that can't be exploited, it's smart, but i don't support it, at best i'm indifferent.

>>4856423

>>4856227

I don't want to be beholden to the government.

Also, 2500 in Switzerland is like nothing. Thats like 1000 bux in the USA.

How do these racists justify spending the wealth their nation has generated on themselves?

>>4856415

perhaps

>>4856761

All welfare of any form needs to be immediately removed.

There is no counter-argument that doesn't involve "buh muh feelies".

>>4856227

Universal income is a positive thing if your basic reality is the building of a "welfare state".

U-income would cut down useless bureaucracy from Finland at a stunning 86% if done correctly.

I know some people on /pol/ dislike the idea (leeches etc.) but leeches will exist in any system where it is made possible. This could actually create jobs, innovation and even shorten the workday while boosting revenue and active business time.

Go for it Swiss faggots, set the precedent and let us observe.

>>4856787

>All welfare of any form needs to be immediately removed.

No thanks. Take your edgelord shit elsewhere.

>>4856738

Can you give a summary or a webm?

>>4856787

how could the us end all welfare? i think it's too big for that to ever occur. do you mean strictly income-related welfare related to unemployment or social welfare as well?

>>4856818

I have no problem with the idea.. I have an issue with the government administering it.

They will just inflate the money, or import shit skins until the system is broken or your country is in so much debt to the central banks that you will never get out of it.

Plus welfare NEVER get repealed until it just flat out collapses.

Switzerland is based. Neutral to the end, fuck everybody else as long as they're left alone high up in the Alps. Socialism works in a small, homogeneous nation.

Gbi could work, but only if it was distributed like EBT cards and could only be spent on goods and services WITHIN a nation that has very tight border controls. To make sure the money doesn't actually leave that nation and actively works to keep sectors of the economy in business.

>>4856818

Personally, I like the idea of Universal income, as it not only cuts down on inefficient bureaucracy, it provides citizens with the opportunity to pursue passions instead of effectively enslaving themselves for a paycheck. There's a great deal of squandered human potential locked up in exploitative low-skill jobs; these individuals could pioneer advancements in the sciences, or, at the very least, contribute to the flowering of a cultural golden age.

Of course, the institution of universal income mandates an immigration policy which favors strict requirements for entry and low ceilings for the total number admitted in any given year.

>>4856922

>Socialism works in a small, homogeneous nation.

You could call it National Socialism.

>>4856837

It's been a while since I've seen the video, but, IIRC, they state it's a utopia on the grounds that A) the technological advancement is so advanced that it permits people to be stupid, B) the president demonstrates that he genuinely cares, and C) stupid people are less prone to the psychopathic violence which is associated with the worst sorts of crime.

>>4856882

the way most trials have done it so far, and will likely continue doing so, is by having a small isolated area receive the money for a limited amount of time and they would be studied.

even if it gets accepted, i doubt they would have a system developed for at least a decade more, which is more than enough time for opposition to rise. this happened in the past in many countries.

>>4856837

The rught wing is full of idiots, but they are dangerous idiots, while the people in idiocracy were idiots but it's okay because they weren't bigoted.

>>4856415

You'll turn whites into niggers. Although, Switzerland is a unique case as it's more like a tribe that runs a casino.

>>4856945

I think you're on the right track, as many others positive on U-income (this is not newspeak, just shortening it), but I can also agree with everyone against it as they have very good reasons and facts to back up their arguments as well.

As said, if it is implemented, it has to start in small sectors, and it will really only work in mostly smaller, homogenous nations, like Finland.

The idea has been thrown around at least since 2007 in Finland, and it took 9 years for it to progress to the level of "We're making calculations if it's feasible to try a demo in the next five years."

I believe Holland is also going for a demo soon.

>>4857064

I'll add that if the demo would be done, there would have to be clear target groups/areas for it simultaneously: an area with higher level of income and less jobless, and an area with people mostly poor and/or jobless living on the current benefits.

>>4856945

> There's a great deal of squandered human potential locked up in exploitative low-skill jobs; these individuals could pioneer advancements in the sciences, or, at the very least, contribute to the flowering of a cultural golden age.

Most people who work low-skill jobs are either lazy, unambitious, or just not too bright. Those who don't already produce culture in their free time have little to contribute.

>>4857093

>Most people who work low-skill jobs are either lazy, unambitious, or just not too bright.

That's not most people who WORK, simply most people. Even in Western society.

>lazy

Most people are lazy

>unambitious

Most people are unambitious, even those on the "bright" scale, if not more so than those bright-but-dim. It's a non-argument.

>Those who don't already produce culture in their free time have little to contribute.

Like dank maymays?

>>4857093

>Most people who work low-skill jobs are either lazy, unambitious, or just not too bright.

i don't know if that is true, but in a system where everyone is paid cases have been made for art and culture increasing both in quality and quantity.

the basic income effectively becomes a patron of the arts as well as education or any other personal interest.

>>4856991

better way is to issue stock to citizens of companies which the citizens own, and then as the company is profitable then you get the profits.

This is much better because YOU own it, not the government. The government and private union would negotiate how much stock you get, then you work to make up the difference.

Only way it will work with robots.

>>4857130

I've worked in low skill jobs and high skill jobs and tere is a massive difference between the people working the two. Expecting much of anything from the low-skilled is just naive.

>>4856227

Basic income is a great idea. Only retards are opposed to it.

>>4857203

As have I, and I find the low-skill job people to be the better people to be honest.

>>4857135

An artist who relies on the government extracting money for him at gunpoint is shittier than one who gets people to pay him of their own free will.

>>4857236

Governments don't extract money from him at gunpoint. They print money and give it to him.

>>4857230

Oh they're nice, simple people. I don't hate them. But I'd prefer if society just gave them a bit more respect, not free them from work.

>>4857236

that's your opinion, but most great and master artists in the past had patrons.

>>4857264

And did those patrons not pay the artist because they liked what he produced?

>>4856227

I never understood this.

Why not guarantee a decently paid job to every citizen instead?

>>4857252

What is inflation?

>>4857287

>Why not guarantee a decently paid job to every citizen instead?

That's what happened in Hungary during the communists' rule. Efficiency fell and the country almost went bankrupt.

>>4857294

It is something that is not a problem.

>>4856415

No it won't. Ever been to a trailer park?

>>4857255

I agree. It's getting tiresome that the "progress" in the past decade has gone toward the Greek slave style of making especially younger people categorize somethings as "shit jobs" and the government then coming in saying they need immigrants to do those jobs the natives will no longer want to do - most of which are societal upkeep.

>>4857287

Define 'job'. They usually arise from need, and like this other anon has said (paraphrased), we are moving towards robotics and tech taking over a massive amoutn of "jobs" in the next 15 years. Jobs that are now normality will become obsolete, millions will be unemployed and restless.

>>4857093

Consider the following: they're unambitious because they feel as though the deck is already stacked against them. They work all week at a job they hate, and feel so mentally drained that they cannot begin to bring themselves to pursue their passion, or even develop one. There's also the issue that, when one lives paycheck to paycheck, finding financial backers willing to lend money for the formation of a small business can be daunting, bordering on laughable.

The introduction of universal income would provide the individual with enough free time to seriously contemplate what he wants to do with his life, and thereby cultivate the necessary passion to engage economically or culturally. It provides seed money with which people can invest in their own entrepreneurial pursuits. It also serves to lessen the risk of financial destitution following a failed business, thereby further incentively small businesses.

>>4857287

Because there is only so much work that needs to be done.

>>4857273

yes, what is your point?

that the original point of an artist receiving money from a patron is okay if the patron appreciated their art?

>>4857336

Karl Marx, is that you?

>>4856415

>just keep the guaranteed income out of the hands of non-whites and it will be fine

Pretty much. Living simply/basically is a model that works for religious communities. But hedonists/nihilists and violent subhumans are excluded from these societies.

Once niggers and nigger lovers get introduced into the system, its game over. Those philosophers and artists are going to get beaten and raped, then killed if they don't move. A drug overdose is the only thing they will look forward to every morning.

>>4857341

Yes? Why pay someone to produce shit nobody wants?

>>4857311

>>4857329

>>4857338

Thanks, so what would be ideal in this case? Simply not interfering with the laws of nature?

Swiss here, it's not going to pass.

What is however going to pass is the deportation initiative in a few weeks =)

>>4857369

In the Finnish plan so far, the money would only go to Finnish citizens.

If the U-income were to come, no refugee, no immigrant wud be able to get the income. You need to live in Finland for five years for citizenship, and at that time they would have either fucked off or already worked hard for a living and paid taxes to get the citizenship, no free rides.

>>4857375

Surely you don't think the current world work environment comes from "nature" as a course of evolution? Or did I misunderstand. If you just meant "Why not let the people who can't, die".

>>4857378

ayy

Viel tschüs

>>4856605

fully automated society is near, we have to transition to a system that can work with 99% unemployement without a full scale revolution every 2 days.

Europe fucked itself by allowing migrants in when we least needed them, the most important thing in this kind of society is that the citizen must be law abidding, because people will have a LOT of time on their hands to do retarded things, negroes and sand niggers never lived in civilization, their genes were never purged by thousands years of civilized justice.

>>4856478

>You're a slave to hunger and hypothermia and thirst

>If you want to stop being a slave, those must be free

No, those are called body functions. Does that mean we're a slave to our own lungs

>>4856500

>just saying (1) is an arguement

I get that shills will just post once and drop the subject, but come one.

>>4856837

Too big of a clip to webm.

"Hi.

We're doomed.

Everyone is saying so.

Whenever media covers a celebrity break-up instead of a foreign bombing, everytime a politician says women's bodies can shut down rape [including gay progressive grimace], or a kid askes facebook if he can catch deafness from his dog, we all take to our keyboards to announce that this sad show is finally over.

Our species deserves to be shaken free from this frozens star. [… What?]

See, we all enjoy being the harbingers of some apocalypse, and our favorite apocalypse to harbing, is the one born from hopeless stupidity.

The cultural touchstone for this fear is the 2006 movie 'Idiocracy'.

Still name dropped and hashtagged whenever somebody feels like it, we're falling headlong into some collective mindless destruction.

Idiocracy is the story of a man, mediocre in every concieveable way, transported to 500 years into the future, where intelligence has been bred out of humanity and the world is just a big mess.

Here's the thing: We now have the benefit of almost 10 years of hindsight [ten whole years! WOW!] since that movie came out, and even though it takes place 500 years in the future, I feel completely confident in saying, knowing what we know now…

[shrill liberal progressive emotional voice activate]

We would be fucking lucky to have the future of idiocracy.

Let me explain.

Yes, the future of idiocracy is governed by stupidity - a professional wrestler is president, starbucks gives out handjobs now and there's a looming famine because everyones been watering their crops with a sports drink - but stay with me for a second; I would gladly take that kind of benign idiocy in my future, over malicious idiocy any day.

[And now the true retardation starts]

In present day America, we are surrounded [gay scared liberal hand gestures] by people who call for our current president to be lynched because he's black, people who bomb Planned Parenthood, and drag gay people behind trucks, who bring loaded automatic rifles into fastfood chains after a mass shooting.

There's a whole quadrant of hateful stupid that's completely absent from idiocracy.

[….? I suppose he's forgetting that everyone calls the main character a fag and threaten to kick his ass for talking like a fag on several occasions, that 'he talks like a fag' was enough evidence to get the main character thrown in prison, and that the president pulls out a machine gun and shoots it into the air to silence dissenting retards, etc]

In fact, there's a black president in the movie, and its never once mentioned. [Yes, because the people are all idiots.]

He rides in an open air motorcade, through city streets. [Yes, because HE'S AN IDIOT… Also, Hitler did that sort of stuff, except he wasn't an idiot.]

He throws parties for everyone on the lawn of the White House. Everyone's invited! [Again, BECAUSE HE'S AN IDIOT… Also, Andrew Jackson did that, literally, except he too wasn't an idiot.]

Everyone's invited and he never once worries about the possibility of assassination. [… BECAUSE. HE'S. AN. IDIOT.]

There's a female attorney general [who is very-possibly the most retarded of the president's cabinet, and is implied to only be in the position because she's attractive and has sex with people], and people listen to her, they respect her opinions [… nooooo…. no they don't, at all, really…]."

I mean, I don't need to go any further I don't think.

Its just painfully stupid progressive liberal tripe shitting out of its metaphorical mouth.

>>4857338

>Because there is only so much work that needs to be done.

Yup; which is why colonization of foreign lands has been so prevalent. When you have too many people and not enough for them to do at home, it's a simple enough matter to send them abroad to find something to do. The restless youths travel to foreign shores to conquer the land and/or the people thereby providing them a sense of purpose while also serving to spread the civilization from which they were birthed.

Of course, any attempt to engage in such actions in the modern era would be met with such international condemnation that it'd be doomed to fail from the beginning, and the current cultural context is such that the only place you'll find these views advanced is on fringe sites like this one. We know that rounding up the NEETs, arming them, and putting them on a one way trip to Africa would be good for them and, ultimately, the surviving indigenous population. It'd also help address the problem of 3rd world immigration by stopping it at the source. However, every mainstream news agency, the UN, NATO, and China would be quick to condemn the movement and likely intervene militarily to prevent its success.

>>4857495

Oh, yeah, and then there's this.

How progressive.

>>4856787

I think housing and nutrition are reasonable enough for citizens.

>>4857571

Then citizenship must be earned.

>>4856738

> nigger president: check

> female attorney general: check

Leftie paradise. Let's build a damn time machine and send the fuckers there.

>>4856227

>>4856478

Only as long as pure ethnic Swizz can claim it. If the rapefugee invaders are allowed in, they're going to exploit it and drain the system.

I understand the possible need for a guaranteed basic income once automation is implemented on a mass-scale, but why try to pass this now? It just seems like waste of taxpayer money at this juncture. I am not too familiar with the economic situation in Switzerland, but to my knowledge, they are not struck with mass unemployment/underemployment as a result of automation.

allow me to play doubles advocate here. The idea I'm familiar with is usually a two sided approach, guaranteed mincome as well as an elimination of all other forms of welfare. Health care is debatable here, maybe we keep some extra program for health care maybe not.

But, obviously there would be a means test, no one making $500k would need this. But you remove all ability for fraud, bureaucratic waste, excess government pencil pushers and most importantly you stop providing incentives Shaniqua for having 12 kids. You get your mincome, $1K or $2K or whatever, and that's it. Zero kids or 15 kids you get no extra money, so the incentive for poor people is to have no kids. Also, nogs don't save, poor people don't save. They spend every penny they can get usually at the local gas station on bullshit or liquor store and then the grocery store. Those local businesses soak back up a lot of that money.

Yes, here in this video is a jew and a crypto-jew talking about it, but I think there is at least an argument to be made when compared to the current situation we have. The fact is no one is getting rid of welfare, so it needs to be done differently. Now the incentives are way off and it's extremely expensive and wasteful.

>>4856945

>You could call it National Socialism.

Oy vey!

>>4856787

Welfare in the form of direct payments should be abolished. Work houses and soup kitchens and forms of provision of food and shelter should be provided in exchange for work.

Of course this will never happen but our monetary system would have to be compeltely changed for 'welfare' to be abolished.

Our monetary system extracts the maximum amount of wealth from productive citizens possible. To do this, lower classes have to be provided for to not disrupt the system and cause riots, chaos, etc.

>>4856301

It can't be the jews because it presumably involves giving away shekels without creating debt-slaves.

>>4860128

>Of course this will never happen but our monetary system would have to be compeltely changed for 'welfare' to be abolished.

http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/

>Which, incidentally, takes us to a practical point : all sorts of half-baked ideologues, pretty much all of the culturally-marginal scum that froths on the edges of society, all the "activists" and "anarchists" and "communists" and heck-else they call their own inability to cope, inability to achieve and inability to thrive in the world see Bitcoin as a sort of gift from above, made by their daddy directly to them.

>Well… Bitcoin is absolutely nothing of the sort. Bitcoin doesn't make it easier for anti-capitalists, it makes it harder. Bitcoin doesn't make it easier for anti-corporatists, it makes it harder.

>Bitcoin especially does not make it easier for socialists, for those people that despise hierarchy and pretend equality : it makes it impossible. Plain impossible.

>Bitcoin is the most conservative thing since at least queen Victoria, if not outright Jesus. Bitcoin makes so-called "progressive" tax schemes unworkable. Bitcoin makes any sort of public welfare untenable. Bitcoin makes anyone's pretense of equality with anyone else risible. Bitcoin isn't here to "make communes work", but quite the contrary : it will render communes both inoperable and uninteresting to pretty much everyone. Once it's done tearing away the crap these very people have tacked on to government, once we're back to something a lot more akin to what the slave states had before the Civil War (and that's exactly were we're headed, and that's exactly what that conflict was : a dispute between Big Government and individuals - unfortunately BG won) we'll obviously be in a much better position to grok all this. Retrovision is always 20/20, after all.

>>4856945

None of these welfare schemes would be necessary if everything wasnt commoditized. If people didnt have to depend on a manipulated currency, costs would be relatively low enough for everyone to live comfortably

>>4860166

I wasnt implying bitcoin. I meant our policy of central banking and the process of creating currency

>>4860184

I just thought that article was interesting in the context of this thread.

>>4860006

This, if you have any welfare system, it should be as simple as possible, no loopholes, like basic income or negative income tax.

hmmm

has /pol/ ever heard of Social Credit? what about Mutual Credit?

this thread/news made me think of that and I'm curious now

>>4857230

They're certainly less likely to fall for Cultural Marxist BS. That special brand of stupid is mostly reserved for college grads.

It won't pass. Switzerland's referendum laws aren't scaled to its population, so the signature count requirement that used to block silly stuff like this is now less and less effective.

So you have goofy stuff like a guaranteed basic income, or abolishing the draft, or increasing mandatory vacation time, that gets brought up by a small minority, and then the vast majority of the population proceeds to shoot it down in the referendum.

If you think this will inflate the currency, you are a fucking idiot and shouldn't even be commenting in this thread, as you don't even have the barest grasp of basic economic principles.

>>4856945

>>There's a great deal of squandered human potential locked up in exploitative low-skill jobs; these individuals could pioneer advancements in the sciences, or, at the very least, contribute to the flowering of a cultural golden age.

Kek. You really think you are going to find the next Newton or Beethoven at fucking Walmart?

up

this shit only works in all white high trust societies. ex: socialism worked in Sweden until niggers and mudslimes fucking ruined it.

>>4885007

true

Robots need to hurry up and take over the workplace so we can all enjoy our lives and live off of a global guaranteed income.

>>4856787

>>4856787

To be fair, the only reason I'm not allowed to hunt you down and torture you to death for my amusement is "muh feels"

>INB4 you're a tough guy.

You aren't and you'd piss yourself

>>4856227

>Every Swiss adult resident would have the right to guaranteed basic monthly income of 2,500 francs a month

That would certainly solve the invader crisis for the rest of yurop.

>>4856227

>Every Swiss adult resident would have the right to guaranteed basic monthly income of 2,500 francs a month

Do you want all the immigrants for yourself Switzerland? Because this is how you gel all the immigrants.

>>4860161

That's false, it literally redistributes wealth from the workers and producers of society (white people) to those who produce nothing and would live in shambles (non white people.)

>>4857369

>white men are perfect creatures incapable of er

The country will absolutely go to shit, you can't give money to people for nothing unless you want lazy shits.

Its unbelievable how full of psuedo-intellectuals this board is compared to just a year ago.

Its like being in college.

>>4903426

>freedom is bad

>>>/israel/

>>4856763

Thats more than enough for rent and foods EVEN in Switzerland.

NEETDOM is now officially the stance of the masses. Lolberturdianism BTFO.

>>4903443

A society that values democracy, understands the things there voting for and have a basic understanding of how government works will make educated votes.

You nat soc larpers seem to forget that Germany modeled itself after Rome, which spent half its life as a Republic.

>>4903459

>Muh educated vote

>More than half dont know shit about economics or are too busy being wageslave to care

Top kek, again.

>Nat Soc larpers

So?

>>4856301

>>4860161

>Oy vey, you say you can't afford to pay for your dindu welfare state? Don't worry about it

>you can stay afloat with a small loan from my bank

>>4903469

So have you made a refutation yet?

The longest lasting and largest civilization in the world spent half its life as a Republic which is a form of Democracy.

It depends on society, treating government ideologies like religions and pretending one form of government would work for every country and culture is retarded, but /pol/ is but a poor shadow of itself now so I imagine there are only retards left.

this would only work in a white nationalist state

as great as Switzerland is, that doesn't apply to them

(that said if automation continues to increase and more and more people lose their jobs, in a few decades this sort of thing could end up being implemented out of necessity)

>>4903150

>it literally redistributes wealth from the workers and producers of society

Where does it redistribute it too? Back to workers it sounds like.

>>4856818

>>4856945

Where the hell are they supposed to get the money for it? To give 2500 francs / mo to each person, they'd need to increase everyone's taxes by nearly 2500 francs / mo. Of course that's be meanignless, so I guess any income above the GI rate would have a 80% tax rate applied or something? Doesn't seem like the best thing for growth lads…

This is essentially the same line of policy that Ecuador had/has as well as other countries with Drugs going fully legal and offering actual self awareness help. Look, does anyone here remember seeing cases of children being parented by people who sais this. "Johnny" don't go to the mall with Tommy. You're not allowed. Times this by hundreds of "Do not do Johnny" examples.

Or how about "Angelina! Don't you leave this room!

Meanwhile the parents directing these actions actually conflict their demands of the children.

What do we always see happen. The blowback, the defiance. Now Angelina has hopped out the window and got knocked up by Jamal, of all people.

But wait, there's more!

Johnny does go to the mall anyways, and he shop lifts with Tommy.

Corrective action. Warnings of repercussions, relating personal experiences directly related and "handed down" to the lesser knowing subject, the child.

Who however is rightful to install these practices we have to ask? A bastardized people? Or a smart well balanced people?

Francs never went Euro.

So then what about the people who weren't given this choice? Wait for it.