No.1499
Are these the two worst Jedi in history?
Yoda's apprentice became the evil Sith lord Count Dooku.
Obi Wan's apprentice became Darth Vader.
Sheev was able to manipulate things right under their noses.
The Republic which lasted thousands of years collapses while Yoda is leader of the Jedi.
No.1500
Both of their apprentices became sith long after their training to knighthood ended.
Not to mention that the republic and the Jedi order are not directly associated. The republic can enforce decisions even against the council and will of the Jedi.
Sidious was well-trained by his master in the arts of secrecy and staying hidden, and the Jedi had no reason to distrust him before the clone wars. Not to mention that even during the clone-wars, the Jedi have on several occasions disagreed with him.
Obi Wan and Yoda were amongst the greatest Jedi of their era, going toe to toe with some of the most dangerous sith lords of all times.
"Heroes are not forged in times of peace, but in hardship"
I think it is wise to understand that their greatness is mostly a result of the collapse of the republic, and the affects of the clone wars.
It could well be argued that they are the greasts precisely because of the hardships around them, since neither of them are the direct cause of these hardships.
No.1505
the jedi were at their own demise when they took on military positions in the clone wars. mace windu said it himself, "we are keepers of peace, not soldiers". so they aren't the worst jedi, they just should have been more respective of their positions.
No.1507
>>1505If I remember right at the time of TPM there were meant to be only 10 thousand Jedi in the galaxy.
You'd think with that little they wouldn't be soldiers on the front lines.
No.1508
>>1507there were at least ten thousand
there were more than a million clones in the grand army spread across the galaxy, 10,000 wouldn't be enough to cover them all, considering there were always multiple jedi on any planet under siege along with the minimum of several hundred at the temple at all times.
No.1510
By this logic, the Old Republic-era Jedi Council sucked because it trained two Jedi who turned into a duo of vicious Sith lords who started two wars that left everyone bitter (not to mention dead.)
No.1513
>>1510the empire didn't star the civil war, the rebellion created by padme and bail organa did (deleted scene in episode 3 that is fully canon).
No.1514
>>1513he's talking about KOTOR era
No.1516
>>1514somehow my brain skipped over the word "old" and just read republic-era jedi council. thanks for correcting my brainfart.
No.1519
I think it's not so much that they were bad, it's that Sheev was good. He was the one the culminated years and years of manipulation. In the type of role that Yoda and Obi Wan had, it wasn't in their power to stop what happened.
No.1520
>>1519Except that Obi Wan should have killed Anakin
No.1535
>>1520Well he seemed dead.
Really though Obi Wan should have sensed that he was still alive.
No.1537
>>1535Or just end the poor fucker's life while he was on fire