/svidya/ - Strict /v/

>>12770

Funny how people who worship Kojima and deride anyone that doesn't as "muh casual" are actually feeding the same mentality he skewered in MGS2.

For whatever reason a lot of MGS's points are actually ignored or only half taken.

Like look at MGS3, everyone wanks off about The Boss when one of the ideas of the game is that you shouldn't spend all your days daydreaming about your rolemodels and wishing they were around so you could follow them.

>>12769
Those are some hot opinions you got there.

I've casually played the MGS series here-and-there and I enjoyed pretty much all of them. I have no complaints.

I greatly enjoyed the gameplay from all of them, but the story makes you wish for something more consistent

The games take themselves too seriously sometimes, which contrasts with the over the top content of the story and its overly dramatic acting

Then you would say it's original, but it's not, they feel a lot like the original inspirations that in the end makes you think the source was better

The endings always go in their way to make you think they are the last ones, but suddenly there's a new one coming up. This burns/kills the finishing grace in which the games ended

Kojima has proven time and time again he's a superb dev lead and quality inspector but his writting, handling of inspirations (or may i say rip-off skill), PR games and overall lack of balls to stop making them if he didn't want to makes many outside critics and hobby fans see the "advanced" medium projects as child-tier

IMO MGS1 is the best overall, MGS3 has the best gameplay.
MGS4 had the best mechanics but i feel they weren't exploited enough

>>12800

I started peace walker and couldn't get past the comic book intro. I already fundamentally disagree with Kojimas politics but the "peace/no borders" rhetoric really killed it for me. I hate that kind of humanist bullshit. I'll probably play it in the future but not during spring break.

That's another reason why I like MGS4 the best: it's the least moral, least sermonizing of them all. MGS2 was pretty consistent about this, but at the very end it devolved into "make yourself" platitudes, a kind of philosophasting amateurism about individualism that was totally contradicted by the other 99% of the game. It felt tacked on.

I am pretty sure it went:

MGS1: This game will be good and should have a satisfying conclusion.

MGS2: Huh. I thought that'd be the last one, oh well better make a better conclusion that wraps things up.

MGS3: They want me…to make another game? I may as well make a prequel because the previous games had a satisfying end.

MGS4: Ahh fuck this shit. This better be the last MGS game I'll have to work on, 2 was supposed to be the last one.

MGS5: Notto disu shitto agen

Anyway OP, why do you hate MGS3?

>>12839
I see, that was a pretty good answer. I'd have to agree, nothing annoys me more in a story than over-dramatic morals/philanthropy along with constant humanism. Correct me if I am wrong but in short you thought that MGS3 had lowered and catered to fans expectations by dumbing itself down rather than Kojima doing his own thing?

>>12839
Or he just wanted to make a James Bond game.

>>12850

Pretty much

>>12839
>>12850
Both of these are correct.
I'll be honest, at this point, after all these years, i hate BOTH kojima, and MGS fans.
MGS fans are too dumb and miss half the shit MGS games try to convey in their direction, and Kojima wants too much out of video games as a medium, out of video game enthusiasts as the audience, and thinks he's more skilled at this than he actually is.
I want it all to burn to the ground, from the ashes we'll try again from scratch.
New IP, new fanbase, and a humbled, more pratical Kojima.

MG: USA USA USA
MG2: USA USA USA again
MGS: USA sucks
MGS2: fuck USA
MGS3: FUCK USA
MGS4: ALLAHU AKBAAAAAAR
MGSPW+GZ: FFFFFFFFFFUCK USA

It's really hard to buy in 100% to the subtext of these games for me. I recognize the personal expression in each game that OP is referring to, but the fact that each game added brilliant new gameplay mechanics and had plots that worked on both a surface and subsurface level without going into Kojima's emotional state mean to me that a lot folks overestimate the importance of that subtext.

Frankly, Kojima is a bit melodramatic, like a lot of artists.

MGS2 was his postmodern masterpiece.

MGS3 was an ironic jab at literalism that ended up as a love letter to spy films with an engaging story full of action and romance that's everything that people love about cinema; while still moving further toward his dream of the greatest stealth action game.

MGS4 was Kojima's opportunity to insert himself as Old Snake to express his weariness with the series. It was a more obvious jab at fan reaction to MGS2, with pointlessly edgy cyborg Raiden, fans being too attached to Solid Snake, etc; yet it still worked as a heroic tragedy, with a cathartic ending where Kojima's avatar espoused doing the best with what time we have left (the same as MGS). The gameplay was better than ever, but you could only take advantage of it in the traditional sneaking gameplay in a few tiny areas.

And afterwards, he made Peace Walker, which he says revitalized his love for the series, and had all of the silliness we've come to expect without any of the pretense.

I guess what I'm implying is that Kojima was tsundere for his own creation for a bit.

>>12869

Very much agree

That's another reason why I enjoyed MGS4: I enjoyed watching it all burn, and Kojima seething with resentment despite desperately wanting to play the victim.

>>12887

I can't see why MGS2 has a "postmodern" rep.

Yes, it was implied that the whole incident was a VR mission in Raidens own head, and yes we are Raiden, so therefore 'irony'. This also predicates the games formal social commentary about 'roles' and therefore more irony. The SS3 plan also hitches onto the irony train, along with the obligatory mockery of Shadow Moses.

It was all fun, but the ending takes itself seriously, and Kojima's solution to the simulacrum he just made is "eh, just do what you want, live life". Of course, he just spent the preceding 20 something hours saying the exact opposite, namely that what we want and do is decided for us (patriots), "we're just weapons". MGS2 spelled this out in order to liberate the gamer, so that it ends with 'be yourself', which is to say listen to the Patriots, was just very lazy. His moral seriousness about this shitty individualism was an irony that escaped just about everyone.

I've never liked the attitude that MGS3 was some kind of halfhearted effort or a jab from Kojima. Sure, I can believe that he was disappointed in the response to MGS2 and decided to make the next entry more accessible, but I don't believe he's the kind of guy that would put less than his legitimate all into a game. The guy loves movies, and he wouldn't purposely make MGS: Bond Edition into a passive aggressive insult over something like that.

>>12769
My interpretation:

MGS: Look at how many ways you have for infiltrating at the beginning! Footprints, multiple entries, search lights!
Oh shit, that's way too much effort. We'll just make it linear for the rest of the game.

MGS2: Look at all the details on the tanker! Awesome rain effects, ice cubes melt, bottles with physics an….what? Oh, too much effort yet again. Enjoy the rest of the game on a boring oil rig thingy.

MGS3: Allright, fuck that shit. I'll make this a love letter to 80s spy and action cinema.

MGS4: Now what? I don't want to make another Metal Gear after this one. Better try and tie all the games together and answer all the questions.
Better mess it up myself than somebody else.

I liked 3 the best at the time. 4 felt a lot like Kojima tried juggling 17 chainsaws at once and wanted to include as many different locations as possible.

2 is my least favourite. The big shell is super boring, the bosses were all so whacky they make Psycho Mantis seem like a normal guy and it was clearly rushed.

3 is kinda silly but I can take it better as a stand-alone game than I could 2. It feels like he wanted a fresh start and make Metal Gear Solid a less serious series.
Gameplay wise it was definately the best title up until then.

4 could have been made by George Lucas. There is waaaaaay too much stuff in that game for it's own good.

Overall, Kojima seems to have trouble with feature creep and is at his best when he doesn't take his games' story too serious.

This is by no means objective.

>>12779
Yeah, The Boss isn't meant to be admired and doesn't want to be admired herself.
Big Boss doesn't ever get that she's also just a crazy person like the other game's bosses and stays in denial about it.
He rather shifts the blame one the entire rest of the world and seeks a way to enable soldiers to soldier for the sake of being a soldier.

In his mind, The Boss died for 'murica when in her mind she actually just was loyal because that's what soldiers do in her opinion.
She was called The Joy because being a soldier on the battlefield was what she considered her life purpose, without any other reason. Had she happened to be born in another nation she would've died for that country because that what soldiers do.

She didn't want Snake to do the same and find his own purpose. He just happened to interpret that in a very wrong way.
Big Boss becomes a bad guy afterall and I find MGS3 showed what started his crooked world-view.


Again, those are my subjective thoughts.

>>12948
>>12948
>She didn't want Snake to do the same and find his own purpose. He just happened to interpret that in a very wrong way.
>Big Boss becomes a bad guy afterall and I find MGS3 showed what started his crooked world-view.
>
>Again, those are my subjective thoughts.

All of the wanking about Che Guevara makes me see it that way too. He was an idealogue and a revolutionary, but his actions killed a lot of innocents and caused a lot of suffering.

>>12952
Charisma can blind people. Add to that the fact that the world isn't black and white and people tend to have sound reasoning behind their actions, even if you don't agree with them, and you'll see people who'd like the world as simple as their own view categorize others into either demons or saints.

Big Boss is one of those black and white people. Because The Boss wasn't a terrible person yet Big Boss couldn't see her as flawed he made himself believe she must have been tricked by her goverment.
Her making it a deliberate choice to be the order-executing playball of her nation isn't concievable to him because it's unreasonable.
Yet, that's what she was and chose to be.

>>12966
>Charisma can blind people.

See: Armstrong. I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't realize his actual message nor did they realize that his might makes right attitude failed him because here the strong(being raiden) purged the weak(being armstrong)

Also there's that whole psychopathic VR trained murderous children thing

>mg and mg2 for nostalgia
>mgs because fuck its a 3d model of snake!
>mgs2 damn, the story its hella weird but make sense. its nice and similary ti mgs(boring place overall and a lot of backtracking) plus the salty tears of the solid snake fanboys are delicuois
>mgs3 god. this its a spy movie. best gameplay of the series!
>mgs4 nisc story, good tiding up the lines of the plotnet. the gameplay its even better than mgs3! why he pander to his dev team and not went with his first idea? in case you dont know, SS ans otacon should have beeing executed in some jungle place to be terrorist. and all the story would lead to mgr. but his team didnt want to and we ended with a shitty final
>mgspw nice portable game, aceptable story. multi its good
>mgsGZ BEST. GAMEPLAY. EVER. im pretty sure this is how kojima wanted to make all of his games since mg. the salty tears of hayter fanboys are even more delicious
>mgsTPP looks good, kojima never let me down with his promis and always tried to push hard on his game hope for the best


the only flaw its that he get lost in the story tellin and you end up with longass cutscene…why dont let them be as over game? like GZ

>>12769
Why do you like 4 better if you're saying its like 2 but worse?

>>12869
>Kojima wants too much out of video games as a medium, out of video game enthusiasts as the audience, and thinks he's more skilled at this than he actually is.
How is wanting too push video games to their fullest limit a bad thing? How do you know Kojima thinks he's actually more skilled than he actually is?

I get disliking the fans, its why I don't consider myself a "fan" in any kind of series or group because its full of cancer.

>>13170
>I get disliking the fans, its why I don't consider myself a "fan" in any kind of series or group because its full of cancer.
You sure do seem like a fun guy.

>>13170
>How is wanting too push video games to their fullest limit a bad thing?

Not the same anon but especially with MGS and MGS2 the very first levels are better designed than the rest of the game.
It seems Kojima wanted to do more than possible with the hardware and time he had to make them.

You could say the same about MGS4 but the level desing only falls off at around the middle of the game.
The further you go, the more linear the levels get. They could've spent way less time implementing tons of weapons, MGSonline and less different locations in favour of better level design that allows you to take more different routes and approaches.

He bites more off than he can chew.

I haven't played the PSP titles or GZ yet, though. I hear GZ is a lot more open, which sounds great, but I'm not paying for a demo.
It was stupid when Gran Turismo did it and it's stupid now.

>>13386
>He bites more off than he can chew.

I see, makes sense and I could see your point.

>>13380
>You sure do seem like a fun guy.

I just don't like hanging around cancer which has polluted many of today's fanbases.

so OP

DID YOU RIKE IT?

>>13386
>but I'm not paying for a demo
you forgot that is a "demo" half priced way better than most crap its coming out from two year and something
even pirates have tried it and bought it after becasue was worth the money

>>13386
Ground Zeroes is one "open" map with lots of buildings that have no interiors and a few armories that do. You don't get to choose a loadout like in Peace Walker, but completing missions at higher ranks unlocks weapon pickups at the mission start area for that mission. There's about 10 guns total, though you can only carry three types at once. And there's no equipment other than the NV goggles. Other weapon types consist of 'nades, smoke 'nades, flare 'nade to call the chopper, throwing magazine, C4, and claymores.

While the game mechanics are generally solid, there's a few caveats. Number 1, no neat TECHNOLOGY on the level of 2 (melting ice cubes, disabling enemy radios), 3(voiced interrogations, various animals you can use to your advantage, etc), or 4 (emotion manipulation, in-depth CQC) , and the physics engine is lackluster. And number 2, guard vision is improved and alerts are instantaneously enacted; as soon as one guy off in some corner of the camp by himself shouts "CONTACT" - not even into his radio - everyone on the base knows where you are.

I regret paying $15 for it, as little content as there is, but it's worth a rental. While it's an 'open-world' game technically, it feels like it restricts your gameplay options a bit more than other MGS games have in the past. I expect The Phantom Pain will largely rectify this, though I'll still miss the attention to detail that the older games had. I mean, in some of the trailers you see water reacting to helicopters' air currents, but the palm trees are completely still for fucksakes.

>>13785
I don't feel it's worth my money as I don't like the practice of releasing a demo for money in the first place.
More importantly though I don't consider it worth my time. I don't want a very short MGS and will only consider it for cheap when the Phantom Pain is out so I could play them one after another.

I don't pirate. I buy so few games these days and when I do they are so cheap I don't mind paying full price once in a blue moon. Just not for a demo.
It's like paying 5 bucks for an orange, to me.

Monster Hunter 4 just came out so I could live with 2 years of no good games. It's not like the few hours of GZ are going to keep me busy for long.

>>13790
>>13792
I see. Are there invisible walls at the red lines? It doesn't look like there are natural restrictions or at some points even fences there.

>>13814
there are walls, fences and cliffs at all those red lines except the one that's a street, but there's no invisible wall there, you exit the map from there

>>13814
Ground Zeroes takes like 50 hours or more if you are the person who replays things.

>>13863
True but I guess most MGS fans aren't since the previou games don't really have any replay value

>>13867
Actually they do too, it's just the story isn't as good twice around.