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/svidya/ is a strict /v/ alternative for moderated vidya discussion. This Board wasn't intended to replace /v/ but to aid Anon's in having vidya discussions with zero shitposters. Thanks for adding /svidya/ to /v/'s recommended boards, Mark.

File: 1428914125111.jpeg (83.15 KB, 553x635, 553:635, 2009-10-10-206026.jpeg)

377ea4 No.13312

Every time I have a discussion with someone who thinks that "modern games pander to casuals", I always come to the same conclusion.

"This fucking mongoloid is only having this problem because he only plays shitty games."

Every time, it's always crap games that get blasted by anyone who isn't a shilling critic. No mention of good and challenging games are seen, and I've seen people try to justify fucking horrible/clunky game design in older games, like outright and completely random instadeath or having to grind for hours to get something. I recently had a lengthy debate with someone who tried to argue that savescumming was a legitimate reason to sharply increase difficulty. That's what we call "grind".

I am convinced that everyone who bitches about modern games are one of two people.

1: 12 year old kids pretending to be "hardcore".
2: People who genuinely only play shitty big-budget games because they need their graphics.

Shit games have been a problem since forever. The problem seems to lie squarely with people playing shitty games.

2abd58 No.13315

Obviously there are always going to be hard games if you look for them, that doesn't mean it's impossible to look at trends in the major releases from the big studios. You sound like you're just nitpicking to seem smarter than other people.

637f64 No.13318

I agree OP

Both good and games have always come out, it's just that time only remembers the good ones (or the exceptionally bad ones, eh Romero?)

There is always good vidya to play

d8c791 No.13322

You're being as disingenuous as the people you criticize. When people complain about Modern Games it is usually a highly specific complaint and very nuanced complaint about about a very specific subset of games; the ones that become household names.

The best sellers of yesteryear were nourished in a very different environment from their progenitors. That's what people are upset about.

a04d65 No.13327

File: 1428919804891.jpg (1.04 MB, 337x351, 337:351, Freedom.jpg)

The origin of your issue seems to stem from an interpretation error on your part and an assumption error on the opposite end. Let us first examine the thought process of the group you are lambasting. It is two fold: they look at the games that provide an, or frame the current, identity of the video game culture and and compare this current identity to the historical identity.

What games are currently popularity considered to be the face of gaming?* The Call of Duty franchise, the Battlefield franchise and MOBA's. The first two games are notorious for being a "hand-holding cinematic experience", wherein the player has little freedom and is dragged from set-piece to set-piece by NPCs and combat. Likewise, when video games are discussed outside of the video game world it is often about "those violent games where you shoot people".
Now compare this to the historical identity of video games. First are the arcade games which were specifically engineered to be hard to wring every penny out of the player. After this came the home console games, which took the design philosophy of the arcade games but streamlined it. Here we start to see checkpoints and save systems**. This was further expanded in the later generations, wherein gameplay was further accessorized as game development theory progressed: it went more and more from a niche appeal to a universal appeal. (In this regard it is similar to Universal Design in industrial design.) Games maintain the skill ceiling from previous games, but substantially lowered the skill floor to make it more accessible. This is around the start of the 3D-era. In the next generation we see a focus on deepening the broadening that was made in previous generation. Games become more, by lack of a better word, "cinematic". They start to incorporate more nuanced story telling and games become, ironically, less "video gamey". The difficulty of games becomes relative to the a games Experience and Aesthetic. As a result the difficulty of games fluctuates vastly between games. This continues until the last generation, wherein "the experience" was put on a pedestal, often to the determent to other aspects.
If I were to ascribe a "face" to gaming in a chronological order, I would argue: Pong/Space Invaders/Pac-Man/etc, early-Mario/Castlevania/Metroid/etc, Mario64/Zelda/Rayman/etc, Halo/Gears of War, Call of Duty.**
From this point of view it is little wonder why people think gaming has regressed: games became less and less about pure, unrelenting gameplay and seemingly more and more about an "experience". Herein lies the interpretation error: people do not necessarily argue that ALL of gaming has become easier, but spin-off the popular identity of gaming and argue from there that the identity of gaming has become synonymous with "easy".

[Separated in two parts.]

a04d65 No.13328

However, while I was writing this I took a look at all-time sales charts to see what games are historical best sellers. What I found was interesting:
http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/jagged85/lists/highest-grossing-games-of-all-time-inflation-adjus/89416/
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/ds.html
http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-JPPlatinum.shtml
http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml
http://web.archive.org/web/20090515224703/www.elspa.com/?i=3944
http://web.archive.org/web/20060221044930/http://www.ownt.com/qtakes/2003/gamestats/gamestats.shtm
http://gematsu.com/2014/11/media-create-sales-11314-11914-2
This is just a small cross section of articles I could find. Please keep in mind that best selling does not necessarily equate popularity, especially as a few links use highest-grossing quality to determinate "best-selling". However, I still feel the results are interesting and worth a look.
What sticks out to me is that on the majority of charts the best selling games are either arcade games, or games in the progeny of arcade games. Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Street Fighter, Super Mario Bros - but also later Mortal Kombat, later Metroid and Monster Hunter. Most pressingly, however, is the financial success of MMO games. MMO games often use "freemium" tactics to get money out of people and so include a high skill ceiling to increase the time people play. Furthermore, sport games (which can be linked to arcades in that they are closer to a pure 'gameplay' experience rather than an "Experience"), seem to have universal success besides.
These results seem to undermine the assumption that games are becoming more easy: rather it seems that games are becoming more homogenized to create an accessible experience that is enticing to all (including "hardcore" players). In my experience this is a valid conclusion: games do not necessarily become more 'casual' in-uniform, but rather avoid "risky" ventures to increase the accessibility and sales. This also aligns neatly with the process described in paragraph three: games being made accessible, not easy, by building on popular conventions. For exercise: compare the amount of "Middens" to the amount of "Pokémon".
This conclusion goes against the assumption that video games are becoming "easier". Certainly, more uniform and bland, but this does not equate easier games. The relative appeal of difficulty seems most strongly exemplified in the Souls franchise. Although popularly considered to be a "hard" game, it has done well in sales:
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31689/demons-souls/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/47349/dark-souls/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/72895/dark-souls-ii/

In closing I would like to note that the "maturity" process described in the third paragraph is common for various creative universes. You can see this most broadly portrayed in the Western history via artistic eras: the establishment during classicism, Christian high-tide and the Renaissance, the broadening in baroque, rococo and neo-classicism and the deepening in romanticism and modernism. Afterwards comes the notorious inversion or deconstruction, often unified within post-modernism. If video games experience a similar progression, then I would argue that games like Yume Nikki, Middens, LISA: The Painful RPG, Spec Ops: The Line, Gone Home, UnderTale, Thomas was Alone, Hotline Miami, Killer 7, Drakengard and Portal are the beginning of post-modernism in video games.

* Arguing from a Western perspective.
** I consciously did not conflate the history of PC gaming with that of console gaming or "popular" gaming, as the history of the PC is fairly different until recently (for which we most likely have VALVe to thank). Very early PC games boasted a surprisingly complexity in its "motor compartment", over the pick-up-and-play type of design philosophy common in console gaming. This, in combination of console exclusivity, is the origin of a schism between PC and console gaming. Likewise, PC gaming had an adventure gaming boom, an early FPS boom and RTS boom, as the controls of a PC lend themselves better to these genres. Likewise, due to the more niche appeal of PC gaming, it is more difficult to assign a singular identity to it. Do you choose Monkey Island over Doom? Or Tiberium Sun over Half-Life?

377ea4 No.13357

>>13318
If you were to ask ten people for the best games released on any console, you would get a fuckton of overlapping answers.

377ea4 No.13359

>games do not necessarily become more 'casual' in-uniform, but rather avoid "risky" ventures to increase the accessibility and sales
This also happens with movies. The fuckwits of that industry butchered a line from Silence of the Lambs. At one point, Hannibal says he enjoyed someone's liver with fava beans and amarone. That showed that he wasn't taking his meds (You can't eat any of those on MAOIs) but they stamped their feet and burst into tears because people might start a riot and burn the movie studio down because it wouldn't cross their worthless minds that Amarone was a wine. Him knowing that Amarone goes with liver also shows that he's cultured as well as a cannibal who is off his meds, and a doctor.

These massive budgets are a prime cause of this #safespace money-making formula homogenous faggotry.

I once said "You could just call the main character by the actor's real name and the terrorist's plan could be changed to "We're going to shag the president up the arse" and it would still be the exact same movie."

adaa9f No.13729

Your issue is the same issue with anything mainstream nowadays.

The point is, when people say "modern games suck", they mean "modern mainstream AAA games suck", and they're right.

Look at any industry. Mainstream films are all pretty much watered down Oscar bait. Music? If you like flavor of the month bullshit and auto-tune hip-hop you're in for a treat.

And of course, mainstream shit always sucked to some degree. But nowadays it's become such a race to the bottom it's almost terrifying.

dfa610 No.13760

You're right, and I agree wholeheartedly.

377ea4 No.13769

>>13729
It's like I keep saying. "All of your complaints will be resolved once you stop playing shitty games, you fucking idiot"



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