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/svidya/ is a strict /v/ alternative for moderated vidya discussion. This Board wasn't intended to replace /v/ but to aid Anon's in having vidya discussions with zero shitposters. Thanks for adding /svidya/ to /v/'s recommended boards, Mark.

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71701d No.6582

I'm not sure if I want to make this a weekly thing or not; but lets have a collective debate about something integral to vidya as a whole. This week (assuming I do make this a weekly occurence), lets focus on Engagement - and whether a game has to be "fun" to be a success, or just "engaging."

To start us off; I'll list a few games that could be characteristic of each category.

"Fun";

- Dance Dance Revolution
- Mario Party
- Street Fighter
- "Character Action" games
- Racing games
- Shmups
- TxK/Tempest


These games are undoubtedly games, through and through. There is an utmost reliance on gameplay over practically everything else - but usually games like this won't have an overarching story. I know that the type of games I chose to represent this category seem a little casual, besides for the latter games - but I wanted to make it clear what the distinction really was.

"Engaging";

- Metal Gear Solid
- The Witcher
- The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky
- Harvest Moon/Rune Factory (more the former)
- "Roguelikes", like Nethack
- Dwarf Fortress
- Space Station 13

Of course different individuals would consider some or all of these titles to be "fun", but even if they aren't "fun", many players could probably call the above games very "engaging", if you will. They rely less on rigid gameplay and scoring, and give you more abstract goals. Usually, this means that for at least some of the game you have to decide what *you* want to do, as opposed to what the games in the previous category ask from you. Many times, they will have a stronger story that may push you one way or another - these experiences can still be linear, but more "open-ended" titles would probably find themselves in this category.

So… what are your thoughts on the matter, /svidya/?

2ba11b No.6585

If a game is fun, it is engaging. Fun is the reason you partake in a medium of entertainment.

71701d No.6587

>>6585

I forgot to say; if a game is fun, then it would be engaging. But, does a game have to be fun to BE engaging?

cd3178 No.6593

A fighting game with a interesting story can be engaging.
Just look at the massive fanbase of games like tekken series, Guilty Gear series, the aforementioned Street Fighter, etc.
A fighting game like Blazblue has Mangas, novels, a Anime and a ridiculously amount of merchandise that fuel the fanbase.
I think that even if the game is simple in concept but is supported by a big amount of merchandise like the mentioned before it could engage the most unexpected gamer out there (and of course be really fun).

2ba11b No.6594

>>6587
No.

Proof: The MMO genre.

35890a No.6598

Engaging can be fun and fun can be engaging. But neither has to be the other. It all depends on whether it is a passive experience or an active. For example,>>6594 brings up a good point. MMOs can be tedious at times but a night spent talking to your friends about random topics and later doing a dungeon, failing before finally getting it done pat can be fun but not necessarily engaging. The same way a game could require your constant attention but might not be particularly fun, at that point, we call it tedious.

2ba11b No.6599

>>6598
My point was that skinner boxes are engaging.

5a023f No.6606

I'm gonna need definitions here, since everything you listed is both fun and engaging, except Mario Party which is neither.

79f990 No.6652

>>6599
they aren't really, they are adictive but don't make you engaged as in carefully paying attention
or maybe my definition of engaging is wrong or maybe different people find different things engaging

79f990 No.6653

>>6582
I don't see how the lack os a sotry makes a game unengaging and I also can't think of an example of a game that is fun by itself and not engaging at the same time

42f289 No.6757

>>6606
>>6582
This. How are you defining "engaging"?

Are you supposed to put punctuation inside the quotation mark if it's at the end of a sentence? "engaging?" vs. "engaging"? It looks gross that way, but I think it's proper.

449426 No.6761

>>6757
Pretty sure the punctuation follows the quotation, as in the ? goes inside the quotation marks if the phrase being quoted was a question, or outside the quotation marks if the sentence quoting it is a question.

He said "Do you like dicks?". Did he respond "Yes." or No."?

fcec7a No.6798

File: 1427201020177.png (1.06 KB, 500x250, 2:1, Oekaki.png)

>>6582
I get what you mean, but I really wouldn't use the terms "fun" and "engaging" to describe these categories.
The second category are story-driven games and/or sandbox games. Not sure how to call the first group though.Gameplay-focused games sounds kinda retarded and falsely implies that dialogues and story choices aren't a part of gameplay. Mechanics-focused games?

25509e No.6811

Maybe "Fun" and "Engaging" are the wrong words to use.

5cfd66 No.6815

OP can you construct a thesis without using nebulous buzzwords that have no meaning and maybe we can have a comversation

c32133 No.6818

>>6587
Mobile games tend to be engaging but barely any fun.

2e58e9 No.6821

>fun
The whole point of everyone finally understanding the fag that said "fun is a buzzword" is that fun is not only a completely subjective concept but that fun is not an adjective that can stand on its own.

Your debate is empty because there are people who enjoy the tedium of having a few buttons to press for MMOs for a week and consider it fun. Some people like me play in the few FPS games that have living competitive scenes because they just want to click on people with a team of friends after school/work. Normals love cellphone games because there's minimal input with high output; touch a couple of places on the screen and they get a big ol' VICTORY message and that's fun to them because that's as far as they're willing to go with video games.

>>6757
The way you wrote it is just fine.

d2aca2 No.6829

Nah, SS13 had me laughing many, many times.

f26720 No.6834

I don't think there is a distinction to be made and it's entirely subjective.

Is chess fun?

>There is an utmost reliance on gameplay over practically everything else - but usually games like this won't have an overarching story.

Well, that definately fits chess.
>They rely less on rigid gameplay and scoring, and give you more abstract goals. Usually, this means that for at least some of the game you have to decide what *you* want to do, as opposed to what the games in the previous category ask from you.

This also fits chess very well. It's a very abstract game. Despite the simple rules and end-goal, it's often more important to think about what the pieces could potentially do. Threats, binding and protecting are not at all apparent to a newbie.

I consider chess great fun. Some consider it a mental challenge. Others might consider it boring and tedious.

Your distinction between two different reasons for enjoyment seems rather pointless as it all boils down to the same thing: entertainment.

You also answered your question
>whether a game has to be "fun" to be a success, or just "engaging."
yourself by listing successful games of both categories.

d2aca2 No.6835

>>6834
Chess can be really fun with the right person. Imagine you're both drinking, having good conversations, occasionally interrupted by unforeseen turns in the game.

467556 No.13959

Roller Coaster Tycoon is engaging as fuck.

9a1007 No.14140

>>6582

Fun is engaging.
It's just that there are different ways to be engaging.

The problem is, while elements like the story and immersion can be engaging in different ways, it's hard for the GAMEPLAY to be engaging in any way other than "fun".

188e2b No.14147

>>14140
This essentially.

Entertainment is fun, and engaging by the very definition of being entertainment. You play video games because you want to play video games. It releases dopamine in your brain.


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