/2hu/ - Touhou

Oh no it's happening again. And here I was thinking that /2hu/ was revived after the software transition blew over.

>>38517

I like to spend time with you. We'd lose sight of each other if it became too crowded.

>>38519

>yukari

>good

That aint a Youmu.

About the topic at hand, just make general threads on /v/ and they'll usually spill over and search for the adyacent board if it's linked on the OP. Oh, and try to talk videogames instead of just posting waifufaggotry avatarfag convos.

>>38523

>/v/

>try to talk videogames instead of just posting waifufaggotry avatarfag convos.

NO

>>38523

Discussion about game play should be directed to /thg/, though.

Among other things, "waifufaggotry avatarfag convos" is what /2hu/ is for.

>>38526

But there is only one.

>>38526

There is not much to split.

Even if they're being facetious, some Fairies are still rather hostile to players not acquainted with shmups or intimidated by the learning curve.

/thg/'s BO is a kind person, if somewhat - or maybe because he is - disenchanted with the player base; and the other posters seem to be like-minded, as well.

I'm too ashamed of my slow progress to post regularly, but the board deserves more activity.

I left /jp/ in the first place because posters became terribly abusive towards less apt fellows. /thg/ was actually the first place I know of where I didn't feel anxious about being looked down upon.

>>38541

What do you mean?

>>38548

>That's purely objective.

Why yes, everything I say IS objectively correct. Thank you for noticing, fairy.

>The fundamentals may be simple, but the game has an astronomic skillcap.

It does, but the problem is that being good at it relies more on execution than understanding mechanics. This makes it difficult to actually talk about for very long. The answer to almost every problem is "do better."

We could talk about which Touhou games we like best and which shmups we like best, and I'm sure it would be a rather pleasant conversation that could last a thread a couple days if a lot of people chipped in, but you can only have those kinds of threads so often.

>>38550

>And how do you do better? There's a science behind it. If you listened to an experienced player opine on the subject, you will find that there is quite a bit to discuss.

But for how long, though? Simple mechanics have never lent themselves well to extended discussion. The answer you give to a particular question today will be the same one you give next week. Every subject ceases to be interesting, eventually, but shmup discussion seems to dry up extra fast relative to other genres. Touhou, specifically, isn't what I would call particularly dynamic, even compared to others in its genre.

I stand by what I said before. The characters and setting are far more interesting than the actual gameplay. Would Touhou be anything special at all without them and ZUN's music? They're fun games, sure, but is it the gameplay that makes them truly memorable?

>Those kinds of threads appeal to fans that are either new, immature, or don't take the game seriously.

Those kinds of threads appeal to people who like to share and discuss their interests with others, fairy. You wouldn't happen to have autism, would you? Silly question, I know.

>>38558

I personally do not find 2hu games to be fun. Are they bad as video games? No, just not particularly entertaining.

A game like this, or shmups if you will, can only be called good as long as you can play the game purely by reaction and skill. But that isn't the case with 2hu as you need memorization skills far more than anything else. Sure you can get your way with reaction skill alone, but that only works for a while, later stages and higher difficulties become little more than a memorization game, everything becomes about knowing the patterns, the direction the enemy's and the bullets are coming from and positioning yourself correctly according to your knowledge. I find none of that to be fun and I don't like the idea of just repeating this stage over and over and over until I finally get it right, the victory will feel hollow and meaningless anyway, because it will not have come from my own skill but from the fact that I learned the pattern, which is not how it should be. It's like beating an FPS game where you know the layout of the entire map beforehand and where the enemies will pop up from. Games should be reactionary and interactive.

I frankly do not understand higher difficulty-fags, challenge-fags and score-fags. The game does not become better at higher difficulty, in my opinion it makes it actually worse by turning the relatively better earlier levels, into a memory game once more, while on normal you could complete them on reaction and skill alone. Winning on lunatic and winning on normal is only separated by the amount of time you wasted on learning patterns, Lunatic does not make the game better or more entertaining it only appeals to your own personal masochism, which is something that I don't have. Scorefags and Challengefags get this meaningless ego, this false sense of accomplishment after completing the games on autismical difficulty and think that it made their lives worthwhile to stroke their penis to their 2hu graze score and tell me that people who play on normal are plebeians.

Well fuck you. Because the best parts of 2hu games have actually nothing to do with the gameplay or the difficulty. The only reason this game floated around for so long is simply because of ZUN's masterful execution and skill at everything other than drawing. The best moments of 2hu are not when you dodge this über hard spell card and capture it for the 500 time, no, the best parts of 2hu are the moments that await you inside the game, such as when you arrive at the sky with the pillars in Perfect Cherry Blossom, everything slows down and comes to a still while ZUN's beautiful music crowns the whole moment as the Primsrivers finally appear while you were basking in the moment. Or when you are fighting Eirin Yagokoro and you heard the radio transmission and discussions from the Apollo Mission, or when you play Ten Desires only to find out that Yuyuko awaits you at stage 1. Those are some of the best moments of 2hu games, and they do not come from the gameplay or the difficulty, they come from the atmosphere, the execution, the universe, the lore, the characters all making up the great whole together.

You call everyone secondary as an insult, while I find YOU to be the secondary for only caring about the gameplay and being a philistine who can't actually appreciate the finer moments of 2hu. Taking it easy is the only way to appreciate 2hu.

>>38538

I'm sorry, I'm so sorry!

>>38568

>If you think the games are about memorization

You completely failed to prove me wrong in that regard. You can't beat touhou without memorization.

> you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm talking after almost a decade of playing touhou games, so yes I think I DO have an idea of what I'm talking about.

>Advanced players feel a strong sense of accomplishment for what they do.

And as I said, that "sense of accomplishment" is nothing but e-penis wanking, it is little different from MMO players feeling proud that they killed the X raid boss, even though it means actually nothing. It is an illusion, meant to separate you from reality.

>Lunatic is enjoyable because challenge matters.

Enjoyable to masochists

The games are challenging enough on normal, and as I said higher difficulty does not mean better gameplay.

Especially in touhou where turning on the difficulty makes everything a memorization game.

Difficulty is only fun or entertaining when you get new things or new mechanics by upping the difficulty.

But no 2hu is lame, all it does is increase the number of bullets, their speed, their accuracy and alter their patterns, it doesn't add anything new to the game.

> This isn't Kawadoofy on your Halobox.

Don't know what that is nor do I care

>and it's perfectly acceptable to take a long time to beat.

There is no point to a shmup game that takes a long time to beat because then it just becomes a grind fest, you keep wasting hours after hours on the same exact levels.

You keep dying and trying over and over until you perfectly memorized the pattern of the bullets that will allow you to beat the entire game.

And you died like what 200-500 times just to beat 2hu on lunatic?

What a complete waste of time, I rather much prefer my own way of beating a 2hu game under a day on normal and not be bothered by pointless grinding.

>This is a real game

Bad Games are also Real Games, your point?

>Otherwise you are just just sightseeing with bullets getting in the way.

That actually perfectly describes my 2hu game experience.

I told you in my previous post that I couldn't care less about 2hu gameplay, for it is not a gameplay that I found to be entertaining or fun.

Lore, Characters, Atmosphere, Universe is where everything is at.

>I don't call everyone a secondary, but you are sure deserving of that title.

Here we go with the secondary name calling again.

Boohoo, I don't appreciate your epilepsy inducing bullet hells, are you gonna cry?

>In a sense I can't blame you for your rotten views on Touhou gameplay. The cesspool of a community in the west likes to propagate

I never interacted with any 2hu community other than this one and /v/'s soku threads.

So you have no one else to blame but me for my own viewpoints, everything came from within me as I don't subject myself to influences of media or others.

> Many players believe this, but it's not what Touhou is about.

So what is 2hu about, Mr. Primary?

> I would recommend giving the games a fair trial instead of relying on memes created by losers to judge a game.

I don't even know what memes you are talking about. Also I gave them a hard trial, I played literally every 2hu game other than 1-5 and 15, when I'm hating on 2hu gameplay, I'm speaking purely on my personal experiences and viewpoint, I'm not spouting some memelord or youtuber or whatever the hell you are imagining.

>>38569

>Based on what you have posted, it seems that you have barely even played the games.

My post clearly indicates that I have played the games, how else would I know about events that only happen inside them? Your logic is flawless.

>There's a lot of fun awaiting you, so you should try it.

Nope I did not find that fun you are speaking off. The most fun 2hu games are the spinoff games

>I'll admit that you need to be a little ill to play at the very highest levels, but going for a Hard or Lunatic clear is reasonably attainable for anyone.

But as I said already, there is literally no difference between winning on Normal and on Lunatic except the amount of time wasted and amount of personal ego inflated.

Really if you aren't an e-penis wanker or a masochist, then you have no reason to play on Lunatic difficulty.

>It's really fun to do everything you can to beat a game

Except memorization is not doing everything you can

It is grinding that is not dependent on your actual skills.

Everyone can learn a formula after writing it down a 100 times, beating 2hu on lunatic is no different.

> dodging frantically on the final boss with your heart racing,

Been there

Done that

Didn't feel any heart racing.

>You get a sense of accomplishment.

I don't because its just a shitty bullet hell, why should I get a sense of accomplishment for beating a video game?

Are all of you this deluded and removed from reality?

Are all of you REALLY this into escapism?

The accomplishment of a game mean nothing!

They are imaginary, their worth is only shared between those who share your delusions!

>Of course, it wears off after a while, and then you can keep getting better.

There is no getting better as its entirely about memorization.

You can go ahead and forget the pattern after you are done with a game, pick up a new one then start over the memorization process, your previously learned memorization means nothing in the new one.

Unlike in the touhou fighting games, where you ACTUALLY have a progress and steady self improvement that is not based on memorization.

>That's the stepping stone philosophy of Touhou.

Those who follow that philosophy do nothing but waste their own time and delude themselves into thinking that their path is meaningful.

>You can always keep doing better and it is rewarding.

Only rewarding to people like you, don't assume everyone under your wings.

>If you think the scenery and music is attractive, you should see the bullets.

Bullets give me epilepsy.

See, gameplay fags claim that they want gameplay discussion.

But when one dares to speak about how they do not like 2hu gameplay as a 2hu player, they do nothing but lash out, calling you a secondary!

They dare to question that you even play the games! For in their minds it is unthinkable that someone who played the games would not possibly like them!

In truth it is not discussion that they want, it is a hugbox. A hugbox that agrees with them and feeds into their own meaningless ego.

They want a circlejerk

>>38571

>How mediocre. That's the perfect term used to describe secondaries. Zero-effort crybabies with no sense of effort or accomplishment.

>not caring for hard video games means you've never exerted effort in any other part of your life

I knew it was only a matter of time before this argument popped up.

>>38573

>Videos or didn't happen

You can look up replays here: http://score.royalflare.net/

There's even a few western ones too.

>I'm not vain like you people who share your replays around just so you can masturbate to who has higher graze

You're just chicken. And I haven't uploaded a replay in years.

>But really, all you wanna do is make fun of someone who only plays on normal difficulty

I would never make fun of somebody for playing at a lesser level than me. But for all the disparage you are doing, you deserve it. Don't be surprised if you're not taken seriously when you have no desire to do more than scratch the bare surface of the game.

>But even amongst people calmness differs, not a single 2hu game has ever made me feel excited other than Hisotuensoku.

Of course it hasn't. You've never challenged yourself. Time and effort lead to investment. Investment leads to reward. You're not going to "get it" until you take the plunge.

>Funny you say that, when gameplay fags regularly make fun of those who find the lower difficulties to be challenging.

You're confusing me with others. The Touhou community is awful, so don't be surprised.

>And if a game is long there must be equal content for that length.

There's 9 main games with 5 side games. And that's just the mainline shooters. So 14 games in total not counting the retro ones or the fighters. Each of those games has difficulty levels, shot types, and unique mechanics. You can unlock shot types, spellcards, the Extra stages, and hidden endings. IN has lots of unlockables. The photo games revolve around it. There's clearly lots of unlockables. And why do you refer to stages as maps? You clearly don't play these games.

>Other than learning certain move sets, what is memory based in the fighting games? It lives and moves entirely on your experience, skill and reaction to your opponents moves.

Oh boy. Would you care to play a few rounds of Soku? I can host.

>No you missed my point, I don't think your overly colourful bullets are good looking or beautiful, just because organized them into moving patters and shapes doesn't necessarily make it aesthetically pleasing.

Fox and the grapes.

>I do like the games myself. What I hate is the elitism, the wanking and the complete e-penis circlejerk that has been built around it. I would prefer if everyone just took their 2hu games easily.

You are the one expressing elitism by disparaging players that actually care about the games with your militant mediocrity. It's secondaries that constantly circlejerk by hugboxing each other for not being able to play. I wouldn't be arguing with you if you had just let me enjoy my games in peace. I don't care if you don't bother to improve. I wholly expect the vast majority of players to do so. If I spent all my time yelling at secondaries, I would run out of breath.

Here's a nice comic that I think fits this thread well. Just replace DF with 東方. There should really be a Touhou version of this comic.

>>38574

>You can look up replays here: http://score.royalflare.net/

I asked for a direct link to a video showing a guy who beat lunatic on day 1. And you dare to link me to a site that has collections of ALL kinds of replays and in Japanese of all things? Really man?

And you expect me to take you seriously?

>You're just chicken.

Yeah I already foresaw this response.

Typical gameplay fag resorting to labels as usual.

But did you really expect that I would bother just to record a replay for you just because you asked for it?

I don't care that much about this argument.

>But for all the disparage you are doing, you deserve it.

That should be my line as I'm only doing "disparage" in the first place because I believe you e-penis wankers occasionally need to be shaken up to reality.

>when you have no desire to do more than scratch the bare surface of the game.

Bare surface you say. Yet I already proved that the only thing that changes with difficulty is the challenge, we both experienced the exact same stages, our experiences are only separated by the difficulty and our own autism, so you cannot really call it just a "bare surface".

>Of course it hasn't. You've never challenged yourself.

Because I don't see the point in challenging myself in a virtual game.

Nor do I think that 2hu games offer the good kind of challenge since it just makes everything memorization.

I'm fine with challenges when it actually makes the game more interesting and varied such as in the Doom or Thief series, because increasing the challenge actually makes the games more fun in those examples (Thief makes the AI smarter and adds more patrolling guards and npcs, While Doom adds higher tier enemies earlier and increases their overall number).

>Investment leads to reward.

A fictional reward that amounts to nothing in reality as I have already told you.

>You're not going to "get it" until you take the plunge.

I believe I have no need of such rewards, I am fine as I am now.

>Each of those games has difficulty levels

I already commented more than enough what I think about 2hu's difficulty, I shall not waste my time repeating those words

>shot types

Woohoo, you have a different shot type, big fucking deal.

If we are on this topic anyway, I dislike how in 2hu there are no pickups that change your shot type.

>and unique mechanics.

Unique mechanics that don't matter much, like really how does the new mechanic in Ten Desires make the game better or any varied? It doesn't do any of that, it just gives you the ability to shoot for a few more seconds after dying.

The only 2hu game that had remotely interesting new mechanics was UFO, with the ufos.

>the Extra stages

We were arguing about longevity, didn't we? Well even with the addition of 1 extra stage per game, I do not believe that it is enough to make any 2hu game into a game worth spending months on.

>>38575

>>38574

>and hidden endings.

You still have to go through the same exact maps and bosses to get to the hidden ending.

>IN has lots of unlockables.

IN is one of my favourite 2hu games actually, later mainline 2hus degraded and did not live up to the predecessors in my opinion.

>The photo games revolve around it.

Photo games, Great Fairy Wars and Seija's games are much better than regular 2hu games since skills matters far more in them due to the unique mechanics that are present in the game (Be it Aya's snapshot, Cirno's freeze or various Seija items), but are not in the mainline games.

>There's clearly lots of unlockables.

Not enough to make a single 1 game worth playing for more than a few days. I repeat.

>And why do you refer to stages as maps? You clearly don't play these games.

Once more you are making assumptions and trying to attack my characters.

I actually just don't like to repeat myself and use the same word too often because it triggers my writing autism, so I use synonyms as often as I can in order to avoid this perceived literacy problem.

>Oh boy. Would you care to play a few rounds of Soku? I can host.

I haven't been actively playing, but I guess I can let you give me a few beatings if that's what makes your ego feel better.

>Fox and the grapes.

Not sure If I get the reference, I am not American.

>You are the one expressing elitism by disparaging players that actually care about the games with your militant mediocrity.

Lololol, you are claiming that I'm being elitist for speaking up against elitist 2hu players, get real.

And how am I militant? I only came here to post my viewpoint and it was you who got triggered on my post and started claiming that I was someone who never really played 2hu games and was only spouting memes.

>It's secondaries that constantly circlejerk by hugboxing each other for not being able to play.

Never seen such a thing, especially not on 2hu, but then again I don't interact much with the community

Either way, even if what you say might be true, it still doesn't negate the fact that elitist 2hu players likewise are prone to circlejerking in the ways that I have pointed out.

>I wouldn't be arguing with you if you had just let me enjoy my games in peace.

So why are you not just enjoying your games in peace?

Who is stopping you?

I clearly do not care much for this argument, if you stop, I'll also stop.

There is no one who prevents you from playing but yourself.

>I don't care if you don't bother to improve.

Still don't see learning a formula/pattern as improvement

>Here's a nice comic that I think fits this thread well.

Typical Dark Souls tier comic made in order to make elitist players feel good about themselves and validate their own ego and by extension their taste.

This is what happens when you don't take it easy.

>>38578

Good games

That's enough for me as the longer we continue the weaker I would have become

The fact that I'm usually asleep at this time was heavily on your side.

if you want I can show you my full power in the morning.

Good Night