/4chonr9k/ - r9k

yeah

positively i guess. i can look at shocking pics online and not even cringe anymore ;)

4chon r9k was my main board, and it had somewhat of a negative side if you went there errday like i did.. too many "feels" and you start wallowing in this self-pity, gloomy atmosphere that's not healthy

the good part about that, is that i eventually kept going, and didnt crack (ie. i didnt go full depressionmode) - the opposite actually: I got over it … so now i look down on people who are still in the "feel mode"

>>1745

>>1748

Sheep detected.

>>1754

>nothing new was discovered or achieved thinking or doing the same thing over and over

I wasn't talking about pursuing totally new ideas. I was talking about pursuing new ideas to the individual. Like someone brought up in the western world might pursue meditation because it's new to them, but is a very common idea in other parts of the world, and even among different groups in the western world. It's on thing to pursue new ideas to you for the sake of curiosity. It's another entirely to pursue things you were previously ignorant of and then to project your ignorance onto everyone else around you and think that suddenly you are better than the sheep simply for discovering something you hadn't been aware of. There's this terrible superiority complex that comes at times when people pursue "novel and different" ideas within the confines of their culture thinking it makes them a novel and different person. They think they're escaping sheepdom but they're really just switching shepherds and gloating about it to everyone in the other herd.

Truly new, and original ideas only really come around two or three times in a lifetime if you're lucky, and rushing to claim you've had it already is a disservice to the many thoughts and ideas that are possible for you in the future.

>Sheepdom however is taking what you're told at face value, conforming to the expectations of others for their sake or lack of self-recognition, giving control over your mind to the group, etc.

No, thats not sheepdom thats how succesful people get through life. By trusting the collective wisdom. Thats literally how we progress. This is literally what I'm talking about. There is no escaping it unless you wish to move backwards. The idea of even escaping it was given to you by another person or pop culture milieu. Did you question why you should want to escape sheepdom, or did you just go along with it based on it's face value? I'm even going to quote what I said earlier again.

>our ability to absorb ideas and assimilate them into our lives rapidly is one of our greater strengths

>>1758

It's why when you were handed a glass of milk as a child you drank it without going to see the cow. All we had to do as a child is watch someone else do it and then we'd drink it. It's why when you go to the doctor and they tell you how long to wear the cast you do it without taking your wrist out of the cast and testing it out every day. It's how society was able to segment and allowed for specialization of tasks. If you want to escape how rapidly our brains accept and assimilate the ideas of others in and among our own you can do the Christopher Knight thing and live among the woods.

Sheepdom is not something to be escaped. And even the idea of escaping it is foolhardy. It's a silly thing to pursue that doesn't really make much sense when examined. Do you actually stick to it and reject every idea that was not solely generated inside of your head or that you have fully vetted? The answer is probably no. Typically most people think they're escaping sheepdom by simply adopting ideas, preferences, and hobbies that are not common among their group as a way to feel special. But that in and of itself is still being a sheep, it's a reaction to the outside community.

Adopting ideas from afar on face value because it grants a false sense of superiority when in reality there is no difference. An idea is an idea, and a life is a life. Think it, live it, and don't look back or try to be outside of the group or within the group. That's just another source of external validation. A different side of the same coin. People don't become different and unique because they wanted to be different from the group. That's putting the cart before the horse. People become different and unique simply because the things they like and gravitate to are not terribly popular. It's the difference between learning arabic because you wanted to read the Quran, and learning arabic because no one really speaks it here. Or delving into Eastern philosophy because your community is culturally christian, or simple finding yourself immersed in Eastern philosophy because you enjoy reading it to start your day.

Your intentions ultimately color your life more than the things you do. Many people pursue things simply because they think that the next wikipedia article or book they find will make them an individual. That individuality is something to be found through addition. Addition of ideas, thoughts, practices, etc. But individuality isn't found like that. It's a thing you slowly become once you stop concerning yourself with what the group is or isn't doing. Ultimately the group is a social construct, and "normalfags" are a construct of chan culture.

Normalfags don't exist, I haven't met one yet. Everybody is unique in their own ways. Lots of people have fears just like those expressed on the chan. Things that people think aren't normal on the chan are perfectly normal out in real life. Even you, with your ideas of escaping sheepdom are played out and common among people. There are so many people trying to escape whatever it is that they describe as normal but it's all one big strawman.

If you want to be a wolf, or a leader it's not about being so different from the group you can say you're not even a part of it. Individuality is found through vulnerability. Put yourself out there before the judgement of others. Place yourself before the world and let its winds assail you until the defense mechanisms and labels you hold to yourself like so many rags are ripped away and the bare person remains. True individuals very rarely have to tell you that they are unique, or different. You see it and know it. Just as the lion doesn't have to tell the Gazelle to run. And the comic doesn't have to tell you to laugh. Society is a mirror through which the self and ones place can eventually be found…

>>1758

> I was talking about pursuing new ideas to the individual.

Where my statement still stands. It's just about progress of the individual rather than society or species.

>It's another entirely to pursue things you were previously ignorant of and then to project your ignorance onto everyone else around you

Well you're not projecting ignorance then, rather being smug in the fact you have knowledge which they don't. However if you have knowledge that they don't because they're creationists or whatever well we all should point and laugh at them.

>and think that suddenly you are better than the sheep simply for discovering something you hadn't been aware of.

Well you'd certainly be better than those who when presented with knowledge and dismiss it.

>There's this terrible superiority complex that comes at times when people pursue "novel and different" ideas

Is it a superiority complex or recognition of superiority given a framework you dislike? I think there's a word we use for people who have their minds closed to new ideas…

> They think they're escaping sheepdom but they're really just switching shepherds and gloating about it to everyone in the other herd.

This is what happens most of the time, it's pretty sad. They go from Czars to commissars.

>No, thats not sheepdom thats how succesful people get through life.

Not really, that's how trustfund babbies get through life. Their success is that of their parents. Some people actually have to make their own way. Being of the follower class and trying to be of the leader class by being a follower won't work.

>By trusting the collective wisdom. Thats literally how we progress.

Except the collective really isn't that wise. That's why society depends on novel thinkers to progress. Sure tradition will probably keep the wheels turning, you just won't get better wheels as you go. Because no one is thinking outside the box society would be trapped in to think of an improvement. "What pressurized rubbber tubes to cushion the wheel? Naw my grand pappy had just wood and that's the way we gonna dun it."

The key is to scrutiny and epistemological tools like the scientific method. Not just trust age old wisdom because that's the way we kept ourselves stagnant for generations. In fact what you're suggesting is how China cucked itself from developing like Europe. They kept the status quo who imposed their old ways limiting developments from novel ideas. Europe was cucking itself with Christianity too though, just they had less control because of the tradition Western individualism competed with Christian collectivism so Europe wasn't fully collectivist like in China. We're not ants. We have higher cognition which allows to play with novel ideas and develop faster than any other species. Of course we have to cooperate, but we should keep our minds our own. That's how we contribute the most of one another.

>Do you actually stick to it and reject every idea that was not solely generated inside of your head or that you have fully vetted?

That's a strawman, escaping sheepdom isn't nihilism or denialism. It's skepticism targeted specifically at collectivism.

>An idea is an idea

True but not all ideas are made equal.

>Ultimately the group is a social construct

It's a mathematical construct. Math isn't necessarily social, though most people learn it that way. There are absolutely amazing minds out there who I can only look at with envy and wonder.

>Normalfags don't exist

Except that it's a handy term for people who exhibit average group behaviors.

> Everybody is unique in their own ways.

Nah for the most part people are a Bayesian set. Just look at hipsters. Though there are plenty of unique individuals, they're just a minority.

>>1766

>Well you're not projecting ignorance then, rather being smug in the fact you have knowledge which they don't.

Except you ha e no idea whether those people have come across similar ideas and fully explored them before coming to whatever conclusion they've come to. You're projecting your ignorance on to others. You're literally doing it right now. And you're using it as a reason to feel smug.

>they're creationists

How do you know creationism isn't true? Were you there or are you just taking scientific theory at face value? Have you gone and watched something evolve? Or are you just being a smug little sheep in your pen laughing at the sheep in a different pen for being sheep? There's no reason to even care what theory the religious wish to push on you, if you don't believe it, then just don't believe it, there's no reason to then take that and use the ideas of others in the scientific community as a thing to draw self-worth from. You didn't come up with the ideas of science and are just following along with others. It's the height of delusion to think that makes you better than someone else or less of a follower.

>Well you'd certainly be better than those who when presented with knowledge and dismiss it.

Maybe they've already been presented with that idea previously and thoroughly examined it and found it not to be the best fit for their lives? Would that make you better than them simply because they are leading a different life than you? This is a dangerous place to draw self-worth from and is often a mask for a lack of accomplishment in ones own life.

>Not really, that's how trustfund babbies get through life. Their success is that of their parents. Some people actually have to make their own way.

I don't know how you got that from what I said at all. That's a weird strawman to make.

>Except the collective really isn't that wise. That's why society depends on novel thinkers to progress.

If society was made entirely of novel thinkers no good ideas would ever gain traction since they would not be adopted by others too busy with their own unique thoughts. The collective is how novel ideas become popular. It's how those same rubber tires you're talking about actually managed to make it onto nearly all road vehicles. It's why each car you see driving by has the same wheels and not a million different compounds with no standardization. Society doesn't depend on novel thinkers, it depends on novel thoughts. There is a big difference, and inspiration can come from anywhere to anyone. However its a farce to think that your mind is your own. Even now you're parroting ideas to me you've acquired from somewhere else, thinking the ideas you've collected around yourself somehow elevate you to the level of ideas you can achieve. But that's the most primitive way in which our brains work. You've got a Ferrari and you're granny shifting and braking through corners thinking its hot shit.

>That's a strawman

It wasn't a strawman, it was a direct question to you. I was expecting you to answer it. At the very least I was hoping you would show me that you consistently apply your skepticism to every idea, and not just those that you deem belong to "the group." While giving "non-group" ideas a pass. It's just a contrarian mind-set which is still a reaction to the group and conforming within boundaries of specific behaviors based on the group. Which there's nothing wrong with by itself, but when using that behavior to tell yourself you're better than the group. At that point it's just a projection of your ignorance of whats going on, onto the people you see.

>average group behaviors

Like what? What are some examples of "average group behavior?"

>>1772

>Except you ha e no idea whether those people have come across similar ideas and fully explored them before coming to whatever conclusion they've come to.

I specifically said "have knowledge", not have an idea. Knowledge is facts. If they were to fully explore it and dismiss it then they're being retarded.

>How do you know creationism isn't true?

The evidence points to evolution and they are mutually exclusive.

>Were you there or are you just taking scientific theory at face value? Have you gone and watched something evolve?

You don't have to have been there as the process have left evidence. And there are speciation experiments you can see in your life time such as the one involving D. melanogaster.

Next you're going to ask me if evolution is true why are monkeys still around?

>Have you gone and watched something evolve? Or are you just being a smug little sheep in your pen laughing at the sheep in a different pen for being sheep?

Nah, that's "atheism"+. They're literally a religion without a gods.

>You didn't come up with the ideas of science

Never said I did. And those who go along with science because it's fashionable are sheep with the right idea. Meanwhile those who have rationally concluded for themselves that the method is the most fruitful of human epistemological tools then they are just using a tool for what it was designed for.

>Maybe they've already been presented with that idea previously and thoroughly examined it and found it not to be the best fit for their lives?

Which would make them idiots. Again, keyword knowledge.

>Would that make you better than them simply because they are leading a different life than you?

Which is a strawman. A person with a better framework for acquiring knowledge is leading a better life in that regard.

>I don't know how you got that from what I said at all.

Because it's true, it's trustfund babbies who impose the status quo since it's maintaining their status. They don't like new ideas because that puts them into competition. Happened with royalty back in the industrial revolution, they were overtaken by tycoons who embraced mercantilism and engineering.

> Society doesn't depend on novel thinkers, it depends on novel thoughts.

If you think of something novel that makes you a novel thinker.

>There is a big difference, and inspiration can come from anywhere to anyone.

Except we mostly see it coming from a few weird nerds.

>However its a farce to think that your mind is your own. Even now you're parroting ideas to me you've acquired from somewhere else

The more you pursue and are able to entertain thoughts while holding them to scrutiny the more your mind is your own.

> I was expecting you to answer it.

And I did. Escaping sheepdom isn't nihilism or denialism. It's skepticism targeted specifically at collectivism.

>It's just a contrarian mind-set which is still a reaction to the group and conforming within boundaries of specific behaviors based on the group.

Not really, when the group exiles you for thinking differently (not just being a contrarian), that's an indication you didn't conform enough to their little box.

>Like what? What are some examples of "average group behavior?"

Following the group even when it is wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

>>1784

>tfw someone says what you were trying to say