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 No.3002

This seems as good a place as any to discuss philosophy.

I've recently been brushing up on Epicurus and I find his philosophy rather interesting. I'm particularly fond of the way he sees friendship and closeknit relationships as an essential part of a happy life. As someone whose had their circle of friends dwindle and drift apart in recent years, that particular nugget of wisdom weighs heavily on my mind.

However, I find his views on food, entertainment, and sex to be somewhat unpalatable. He only ate bread and water and occasionally some olives and cheese, and believed alcohol, sex, and procreation in general to be completely unnecessary. He reasoning is understandable, but not without flaws.

I think he was a little too eager to pass off personal biases as wisdom. People need more than bread and water and sex and intimacy are not unnatural or unnecessary components of the human condition. Perhaps if he hadn't seen sex as some kind of worthless act, he may have fathered some children of his own and had some meaningful insights on parents and raising a better family that forgoes the typical stresses and problems that drove Epicurus away from romance and intimacy in the first place.

The School of Life youtube page has a bunch of videos on different philosophers and they're all rather nice, but they are a very modern style of repackaging; short and pithy, with just enough content to hold the average attention span and not much else. It's a nice jumping off point, at least, and it's lead me to a number of much more thorough lectures and documentaries that were far more helpful.

 No.3006

File: 1425876473384.jpg (75.73 KB, 720x467, 720:467, Friendship-Hamburg-design-….jpg)

>>3002
I have to admit I'm not familiar with Epicurus, though I have heard his name. Remember that the average Greek diet often included breads, water or wine, cheese, and olives because they were easy to produce in the region. It wouldn't have been much of a stretch for a Greek philosopher to rely on something close to the staple city diet (hemlock excluded).

I too think having close friends is essential to happiness - I have a few friends I'd trust with my life and more friends who are closer to acquaintances. Truthfully, my semi-friends are completely expendable, but my close friends are irreplaceable.

There are other philosophers who argue different things about what happiness is and what's essential to it. This might be going off on a bit of a tangent, but I liked The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius because it ended up deciding that philosophy in and of itself was the most worthwhile part of life - in other words, through contemplating existence, one could achieve the most fulfilling of existences.

If you're specifically interested in the nature of friendship and love, I'd recommend reading the Symposium by Plato and visiting 8lounge more frequently.

Also, feel free to post more of these mini-philosophy videos. They're very interesting!

 No.3016

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>3006
Luckily, they did videos for many of the Greek greats, like Aristotle and Plato, and also some depressing motherfuckers like Seneca.

Epicurus is a pretty neat guy, mostly because he established the idea of communes and simple living long before Henry David Thoreau and others. He's primarily related to the philosophical ideals of hedonism, but a lot of people mistakenly believe hedonism to be some kind of lavish life of excess and gluttony. Also, they tend to associate Epicurus's name and concepts of being "epicurean" as being sensory overloading luxury, when it's anything but.

Epicurus was one who believed that the simple and necessary pleasures were the greatest good and that by making them a priority, over the unnecessary and unnatural pleasures of fame, wealth, and power, was the best way to attain happiness.

When it came to food, bread and water were pretty much his only meals. Epicurus considered olives and cheeses extravagant delicacies and is said to have asked a friend who wanted to thank him with a gift to send cheese, so he might have a feast whenever he pleased. He believed that it was better to settle for bread, rather than to constantly crave lobster, because one could always afford bread and be content with it, but one might be unable to get lobster and find themselves unhappy and desperate to do things that might allow them to have lobster again, which will most likely lead to a long string of decisions that will only bring more pain and unhappiness.

On the topic of philosophy as a component of the good life, that was another component of Epicurus's own philosophy. That you can find more happiness by reflecting inward and engaging with introspection and examination. The life unexamined, and all of that..

Also I've been coming to the lounge for a few months now. I rather like this place, even if it is slow.

 No.3017

>>3006
>>3016
>philosophy is the purpose of life
Says the philosopher.
>philosophers should be kings
Says the philosopher.
>philosophy determines that we should burn books that aren't about philosophy
Says the philosopher.

Gotta love these guys. Bonus points if you gents know which ones I'm referring to specifically.

 No.3030

>>3017
Not sure about the first and third, but the second is definitely Plato.

It ever hurts to remember that most philosophers thought pretty highly of their own profession and it does tinge a lot of their philosophy with a bit of self-aggrandizing bullpoppycock.

They aren't completely wrong, though. Especially the philosophers who stressed that being an ethical and moral person was a matter of habit, instead of some sort of spiritual state of being.

 No.3190

File: 1426823461543.jpg (31.8 KB, 431x543, 431:543, nietzsche.jpg)

My philosophy knowledge is that of a novice, but I'm really loving Nietzsche. The man had fascinating thoughts. The world is meaningless and gives no fucks about you, so strive to be the greatest and manliest fucker you can be, and forge your own philosophy. Dark as hell, but inspiring. Anti-nihlism, some call it. It's a shame he's misunderstood by so many.

 No.3191

>>3190
Take what you want from him, but remember, in his final days before he was committed to an insane asylum, he ran up to a horse and hugged it.

 No.3223

>>3191
I'm aware, but most of his works and his philosophy was well established before he went insane.

 No.3265

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>3190
Poor Nietzsche is so often misunderstood and erroneously associated with the Nazi ideal of the master race.

 No.3296

File: 1426961872286.jpg (78.36 KB, 472x510, 236:255, feelsbad.jpg)

>>3265
>tfw Nietzsche probably went insane because he couldn't live up to his own philosophy and improve his own life

 No.3307

>>3296
topchortle

 No.3493

>>3265
to be fair, his writings fit it pretty well

 No.3497

>>3493

**correction

in some aspects. In other it's a contradiction

 No.3510

File: 1428128156282.jpg (1.77 MB, 1000x1045, 200:209, 1397184066534.jpg)

>>3002
I was talking with my friends and I semi-jokingly floated the idea of living off the grid and starting an Epicurean commune with them so we could get away from all the taxes and bullpoppycock and just finally play all the board games and RPGs we never have any time for. They liked the idea, but casually laughed it off as a joke and the conversation drifted to another topic.

This was brought on by a conversation about all the paperwork and insane level of self-justifying bureaucratic bullpoppycock that goes into own a house and a car and just trying to live in a way that the police or the IRS can't show up and kick your poppycock in for no reason.

I think everyone finds the idea of a small commune with their friends to be intrinsically attractive, but there's so much standing in the way of just breaking from the traditional lifestyle. Even just the prospect of buying land to live on is daunting by price alone.. and then even if you want to live there, gathering rainwater is technically illegal (thanks EPA!.. you useless fucking poppycockstains) not to mention poppycock like zoning laws which allow tasteless poppycocks to decide that they don't like they look of your property, so you have to pay them.. and then tear everything down, otherwise they'll fine you more and possibly even arrest you AND foreclose on your property.. Because that's how the fucking law works.

 No.3511

>>3510
I and others had almost planned something like this out.

But many bailed out from the idea either due to not
seeing results quick enough or other reasons.
It was the whole >>>/namibia/ thing.
Boy was it crazy, I still hope for something but
it might just be a long off dream.

 No.3750

All I know is that I know nothing

 No.3920

>>3750
Then you are wiser than the majority of people

 No.3925

>>3920
All I know is that >>3750 knows that he knows nothing. And that's all I can say about the war in vietnam.

 No.3946

>>3750
>quoting Socrates like an asshole

You know plenty. You know how to type, how read and write the English language. The only people who use that quote are pretentious gentlemans that haven't actually studied anything in order to come across as intelligent.

 No.4564

>>3190

Where do you think I should start with studying his philosophy?


 No.4686

>>4564

Start with loving wisdom.


 No.4828

File: 1436314986245-0.png (37.98 KB, 358x540, 179:270, physicists.png)

File: 1436314986331-1.gif (32.46 KB, 540x525, 36:35, 20110308.gif)

>>3946

I thought that the quote was about how someone who hasn't learned anything about a field overestimates how much they know, but as they learn more, they gain a greater appreciation for how much more there is to learn.

>pics related


 No.4849

File: 1437100480140.jpg (529.08 KB, 1080x1413, 120:157, 12_houdon_bust_of_bf_pma.jpg)

Funny, I'm reading Ben Franklins autobiography and he describes how he changed his debate methods as a youth.

When he started he did what most young men did, he spoke matter-a-factly, and in absolute positivity of his claims and arguments, which ultimately lead to stronger disputes amongst his peers. But then he describes reading a book on the Socratic method, titled "Memorable Thoughts of Socrates" by Xenophon. Apparently Socrates confuted his opponents in argument by asking questions so skillfully devised that the answers would confirm the questioner's position or show the error of the opponent.

In Franklins words,

“I was charm'd with it, adopted it, dropt my abrupt contradiction and positive argumentation, and put on the humble inquirer and doubter.”

….

“I found this method safest for myself and very embarrassing to those against whom I used it; therefore I took a delight in it, practis'd it continually, and grew very artful and expert in drawing people, even of superior knowledge, into concessions, the consequences of which they did not foresee, entangling them in difficulties out of which they could not extricate themselves, and so obtaining victories that neither myself nor my cause always deserved. I continu'd this method some few years, but gradually left it, retaining only the habit of expressing myself in terms of modest diffidence; never using, when I advanced anything that may possibly be disputed, the words certainly, undoubtedly, or any others that give the air of positiveness to an opinion; but rather say, I conceive or apprehend a thing to be so and so; it appears to me, or I should think it so or so, for such and such reasons; or I imagine it to be so; or it is so, if I am not mistaken.”

“This habit, I believe, has been of great advantage to me when I have had occasion to inculcate my opinions, and persuade men into measures that I have been from time to time engaged in promoting; and, as the chief ends of conversation are to inform or to be informed, to please or to persuade, I wish well-meaning, sensible men would not lessen their power of doing good by a positive, assuming manner, that seldom fails to disgust, tends to create opposition, and to defeat everyone of those purposes for which speech was given to us, to wit, giving or receiving information or pleasure. For, if you would inform, a positive and dogmatical manner in advancing your sentiments may provoke contradiction and prevent a candid attention. If you wish information and improvement from the knowledge of others, and yet at the same time express yourself as firmly fix'd in your present opinions, modest, sensible men, who do not love disputation, will probably leave you undisturbed in the possession of your error. And by such a manner, you can seldom hope to recommend yourself in pleasing your hearers, or to persuade those whose concurrence you desire.”


 No.4850

>>4849

Upon reading this passage I felt the desire to share this book:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20203

Along with the Xenophon book that Franklin had described reading:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/17490


 No.4882

>>4849

The funny thing about this is that today, this method of arguing (forcing your opponent to answer questions about their beliefs) would be seen as "sealioning" or harassment.

Some twat on twitter makes a ridiculous generalized statement and you ask them to exposit further, and instead, they block you and tell all of their followers that you tried to rape them.


 No.4887

>>4882

hahahaha. So Ben Franklin was essentially trolling his peers.

No wonder why they hated him.


 No.4892

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>4887

Yes and no. Some people genuinely don't understand how a belief they hold is incorrect or deeply flawed because they only acknowledge part of it.

Asking someone simple, cursory questions about their opinions and beliefs to expose the inconsistencies is a good way yo get people to destroy their own arguments.

Sorry for the redneck comedy clip, but it's a pretty decent example, even if it's probably a made up story.


 No.4908

>>4892

love Ron White




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