No.436773
Why is Type-Moon (Fate & Tsukihime) so popular?
No.436777
It was viraled enough to get merchandise going.
No.436815
>>436773
Tsukihime's VN is great. The anime adaptation came out badly and the result was a boring show.
Fate is retarded kid level - thus, the popularity is as justified as Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail........
No.436821
>>436815
Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail........
Fate was popular when it was just an eroge though.
No.436826
The DEEN anime blew it up. Memes like People die when they're killed and Sakurafish spread awareness. People who were already fans spread the VN. Fate/Zero exposed the casual audience to the Fate series. To be fair though most casuals think Zero came first and have no idea what Tsukihime is.
Why is was popular in Japan? Fuck who knows probably similar to Kancolle and 2hu blowing up.
No.436827
No.436868
>>436773
Muh feels.
Muh waifus.
Muh adolescent power fantasy.
Also Nasu has a way of evoking a sense of mystery that pulls his readers along and draws them into the world he's building.
No.436869
>>436815
So what you're saying is that FSN = Disney shit, Tsukihime = real deal?
No.436880
Because Dies Irae hasn't been translated.
No.436892
>>436773
>>436815
Melty Blood was what brought Tsukihime to the mainstream.
No.436936
>>436868
Probably because his world building is actually top tier.
He leaves just enough open to create a sense of true myth.
No.436940
>>436936
>world building
This.
Nasu can't write plot or characters case in point, the entire cast of F/SN but he can write interesting worlds and mechanics very well.
Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime especially have some really cool stuff going for them.
No.436944
>>436940
Kara no Kyoukai is amazing in the movies.
Because UFOtable did an amazing job ironing out Nasu's more weirder writings and fixed the pacing and other such things.
Also I wouldn't say the characters are all terrible. I think people tend to focus on the jokes formed around the characters rather than the characters as they are presented in the game.
No.437010
>>436944
>I think people tend to focus on the jokes formed around the characters rather than the characters as they are presented in the game.
This this this. Type Moon's whoring of their own work doesn't help, when they release all of these wacky self-parodies ala Melty Blood, Kagetsu Tohya, Carnival Phantasm etc.
I think Nasu has a knack for writing characters. I think he has real skill in portraying the world through their eyes, getting you to feel what they feel.
I don't really like Saber, or the Fate route all that much. There was still this sense of crushing loss, that greatly affected me, seeing both Saber and Shirou come to realize that there were limits to whom they could save. It was powerful stuff.
Nasu is good at conjuring up feelings of nostalgia, whistfulness, yearning, and mystery. Reading Tsukihime and FSN were very vivid experiences for me (even with Takajun's horrible FSN translation, somehow he got worse after doing Tsukihime).
The nostalgia and mystery stuff was actually typical of VNs from around that time. What Nasu did was infuse it with an expansive and believable chuu2 world filled with magic and strange powers, with lots of supernatural combat of the kind that appeals to otakus.
It's part galge, part utsuge, part light novel, part mystery, etc. Also, his protagonists tend to fight beyond their limits, endure massive amounts of damage/pain while struggling against superior foes. It's a fantasy that strongly appeals to men.
Takeuchi's art, though wonky, helped too, as he used to be able to draw faces that were very emotive, cute or sad or angry, they really gave you a feel for what the characters were feeling. (He seems to have lost that ability, judging by the art of the TH remake).
So I guess you could say Type Moon just appealed to a broad range of sensibilities held by otaku at the time, through a story that could still feel legit and be moving while providing wish fulfillment.
No.437019
>>436773
Shiki looks like shit.
No.437028
>>436815
Its better because of TEH VAMPIRES
No.437029
It's because series only die when they are killed, and nothing can kill Type-moon's series.
>>437028
kek
No.437049
>>437010
>when they release all of these wacky self-parodies ala Melty Blood
First off, Melty wasn't even made by Type-Moon, it's French Bread's production. Second, outside of joke routes with Mecha-Hisui and giant Akiha, it treats itself seriously.
No.437053
>>436940
If you ask me, Nasu can do characters and stories really well in addition to worldbuilding. Problem is, he sells ALL of that shit out for disappointing powerlevel shenanigans.
No.437057
>>437049
you forgot about the neco arcs and that weird bit of Aoko's routes
i still love it, holy fuck
No.437059
>>437057
I haven't played the story mode of Act Cadenza, so I don't know about Aoko's routes. Neko-Arcs just slipped my mind.
No.437082
File: 1457513113127.jpg (97.73 KB, 504x524, 126:131, 919285960e3b057abbb1f6e98c….jpg)
>>437019
He looks like Shirou with hipster glasses now.
No.437103
>>436826
I'm not a casual but it would be a lie to say i read the VN before the anime
my first experience with type moon was the Tsukihime anime then Fate/stay night the original anime so I though Tsukihime was shit tier
now I'm more enlightened and can't wait for Tsukihimes new adaptation hoping they do it right this time
No.437624
>>436869
The MC of Tsukihime, Shiki, acts and reacts more adult-like than Shirou. I can put myself in his shoes, but not in of that retarded embodiment of survivor's guilt.
No.437651
>>437624
That's because Shirou is a dirty ginger with no soul. It's natural for you not to be able to empathize with such an animal.
No.437797
>>437028
Curiously, the Far Side part was more interesting.
No.437835
>>437028
No, it was better because ceiling sharks, THIS CHAIR and meido rape.
No.437836
AFAIK it's the only Fate to get a semi decent fighting game. All the other fate fighters are dogshit and not even considered true fighting games.
No.437901
>>437835
oh my god I totally forgot about these things kek
the tsukihimay memes were top-tier dank
No.437908
>>437835
>not mentioning THE MEME of memes
No.437909
Fate has a good premise (though it was turned to shit)
Tsukihime is shit
No.437910
>>436944
UFO table made quite a few bad choices.
They lack subtelty.
For example: was there any reason to show Archer right before the swords skewerd Caster? Was there any reason to have him say "Trace On"?
Without it the audience would be in suspense longer, probably suspecting Gil.
Was the Reality Marble really necessary in the castle fight?
ETc..
No.437912
>>437082
That's because they only know how to draw 3 faces
>>437624
Shirou is a bona-fide retard that can't figure out some basic common sense shit.
How can anyone emphatize with someone so retardedly, fanatically naive?
The best thing out of the entire Fate franchise are Archer and Gilgamesh.
Saber is the authors pet whore.
No.437913
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>437912
I stand corrected. The music is also fantastic
No.438434
>>437910
What are some of the good choices they made?
No.438474
>>437909
What do you compare, anime or VNs?
No.438946
>>438474
THERE IS NO TSUKIHIME ANIME
No.438962
>>438946
There is one, which has a god tier ost.
No.439741
No.439823
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>438962
Man how did an anime that was so shit have such an a amazing OST? It's mind boggling.
No.440016
>>437912
>Gilgamesh
Do you really mean that? Not Lancer? Born into riches and power piece of shit (without any similarities to the mythological namesake) versus a very likable character despite his position in the story?
No.440021
>>440016
The Irish are always likable.
No.440032
Because of this thread I've decided to pick up Tsukihime. The only VN that I've ever read before was Planetarian and I thought that was pretty great, especially considering its short length.
How's the overall translation for Tsukihime anyway?
No.440121
>>438434
Animation choice. Fights are generally excellent, until the end. It has moments of brilliance.
The soundtrack is too underused (usually too quiet or dissapears at times)
The pacing is a bit off, it repeats a point too much when it comes to Shirou and drags a bit. Other servants could use more love.
>>440016
Ok, Lancer too. He's a bro.
Gilgamesh is entertaining. He's arrogant as fuck, but he IS the strongest. F/Zero Gilgamesh was better written, but the sheer hammines of this one ain't bad.
No.440480
>>437010
I wish I knew more about the franchise so I could respond to posts like this in greater detail.
But all I can say is that this generally relates to what I do know about the franchise, and I agree with it on that level, and that Anon's opinions sound very interesting and insightful.
>good posts like this get ignored
If you kids want a good board, you need to start stepping up your content in kind. If you alienate posters who are willing to put more effort into their content, you end up with a board full of millennial memesters who have 10 second attention spans, and not many more IQ points.
No.440485
>>440480
>whine about not getting good posts
>not actually contributing
No.440532
>>440032
In one word, amateurish.
No.440537
>>440121
I think that taint of the Graal got to his head. And insulting with "mongrel" implies no personal greatness to boast about, having only the perks of dynastic bloodline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh#Family_tree - the father of original Gilgamesh was just an unusually brave soldier and his mother a goddess, so he was very much a "mongrel" himself.
No.440539
>>439823
Soundtrack of Rakkyo was still superior.
No.440718
>>440480
He pretty much said it all, there was nothing left to contribute. Do you even know how old Tsukihime is? I'm surprised that anon bothered to explain at all.
No.440742
Is it?
I just watched fsn:ubw, and well... it was kind of entertaining, but there was some really annoying shit. Characters appearing for one episode, disappearing for half the series, then popping up again all "This person is super relevant!!!! Wait, what was I talking about? ... ... NOW THEY MATTER AGAIN!" Bad storytelling in my opinion. Also shit like Ilya being introduced as this epic mage who can buttfuck everything with her superpowerful magey body of magery, then when she makes her second appearance all she does is cower like she's fucking useless. Shit like Blondie being put on his path by Priesty when the priest should know goddamn well it works against his own interests, and he clearly has no plans to reconcile this at any point until a plot device he couldn't have foreseen makes it irrelevant. Shit like there not actually being a real assassin servant that would satisfy the rules of the game, but we'll pretend there was because we don't have the episodes to work one in. Shit like Rider getting about ten seconds of screen time as a plot device. Why even bother having that character?
Some real half-assed shit here. But my point is, I never realized this shit was popular. No more so than any other mediocre hentai game/VN/Anime series?
No.440765
>>440742
you do understand that ubw is one route out of three possible routes?
and that heroines and supporting characters are not the same for each route?
No.440809
>>440742
Limited run time, mixed-up priorities.
But then again, the entire FSN is like that. The writing was never good. It has a few good moments, but generally..nah.
It should be obvious. The entire setting and rules just twists to accomodate the MC and Saber.
Think about it.
Shirou, the talentless mage who can't do shit:
- in FNS, his first projection is a A+ rank Caliburn, which he never saw
- said weapon can take 7 lives from berserker in one hit. How does that work? It just does because otherwise Saiber and Shirou can't survive. The writer is shit, because he keeps writing himself into a corner and inventing BS to get out.
- enemies keep letting Shirou go because.. reasons
- he can somehow use advanced magic that transfers knowledge from past/future self. How? Why? When did he learn that? Never explained.
- Gae Bolg, the spear who's curse kills with a single blow. Except it does not when it comes to Saber.
- Luck stat. How do you even stat something that isn't quantifiable? Why would such stat even exist? Oh, that's right, to save Saber.
- Servants are historical figures. Except they're not. Peoples perception of the legend shapes them. But for some reason Saber and Nero are women and Jack the Ripper is a loli. I'm sure that's how the people imagine them.
- everyone lusting after Shirous dick.
etc, etc.. I could go on.
Faggots will actualy defend this
No.440826
>>437910
I was talking specifically about Kara no Kyoukai. They did make a lot of mistakes in F/SN and F/Z.
No.440827
>>437010
>Nasu is good at conjuring up feelings of nostalgia, whistfulness, yearning, and mystery
This.
The world makes it has stories and myths within their own world. It makes it feel alive.
No.440829
>>440809
Aight, fanboy-modo activated
>Shirou, the talentless mage who can't do shit
Shirou is a sorcerer that never had any kind of training as a mage
>in FNS, his first projection is a A+ rank Caliburn, which he never saw
because Shirou carries with him Avalon literally grafted within his skin, his whole shtick is psychokinesis
>said weapon can take 7 lives from berserker in one hit. How does that work?
the point of sorcery is that it defies conventions
>enemies keep letting Shirou go because.. reasons
because aside from Gil all the others are not enemies but opponents
>he can somehow use advanced magic that transfers knowledge from past/future self. How? Why? When did he learn that? Never explained
because its sorcery and not magic
>Gae Bolg, the spear who's curse kills with a single blow. Except it does not when it comes to Saber.
Where did that even happen, I dont remember
Lancer has also to invoke the spear in order for the curse to work
>Luck stat. How do you even stat something that isn't quantifiable?
because the dice are naturally loaded in her favor due to the nature of her contract with gaia
>Servants are historical figures. Except they're not. Peoples perception of the legend shapes them. But for some reason Saber and Nero are women and Jack the Ripper is a loli. I'm sure that's how the people imagine them.
Saber is the exception because she´s not a counter guardian, and the rest are from canon-separate spinoffs
>everyone lusting after Shirous dick
thats the chick from the archery club that somewhat likes him, Sakura from the start, then comes Rin and then Saber, and that only in one route where its really fucking convoluted Ill give you that
>etc, etc.. I could go on.
>Faggots will actualy defend this
do go on, Ill #rek your shit anytime
No.440831
>>440829
>Shirou is a sorcerer that never had any kind of training as a mage
Magic user who never had training as a mage*
A sorcerer is something else entirely.
There is a huge distinction between a magi and a magic user.
Heck I think F/Z talked about that.
No.440832
>>440831
thats the point
the deadly shit he did every day as training, how did you think he survived that every day for years?
Avalon healing gis ass up every time let him walk the boundary to the origin
No.440843
>>440829
>Where did that happen, I dont remember
Right at the start when Shirou first summons Saber and she defends him from Lancer. He chucks Gae Bolg at her - invoking it, as you say - and it doesn't pierce her heart, it just wounds her. As I understand it, it was literally just Saber's luck stat that got her through it, which I think is bad writing, personally.
>Saber is the exception because she's not a counter guardian [...]
Archer was the only counter guardian in the original lineup. Counter guardians are servants of Alaya, not Gaia - they don't get worshipped like normal Heroic Spirits do. Saber is an exception, yes, because she never died, and got whisked away to the Throne of Heroes before expiring due to the terms of her contract, but her not being a counter guardian isn't what makes her different.
The thing with F/SN is that even 10 years on, we're still having discussions over the finer points of the worldbuilding, which I think is a good sign. I really enjoyed the original VN, and I quite liked F/Z and UBW, but probably the most fun I've had with the series is playing with the background information and making up theories. I think at least a large part of the fanbase has that particular brand of autism.
No.440849
>>440829
>because Shirou carries with him Avalon literally grafted within his skin, his whole shtick is psychokinesis
Bullshit explanation. What does having Avalon have to do with Caliburn? Why can't he just project Caliburn or Excalibur? Where does he get the mana for it anyway?
>the point of sorcery is that it defies conventions
In other words, shit writing.
>because aside from Gil all the others are not enemies but opponents
Oh please. Shirou has plot armor trough the roof.
I can kinda accept Medea letting him go once, but everything else - from surviving a dozen times - including being stabbed in the heart by GAE BOLG
>Where did that even happen, I dont remember
>Lancer has also to invoke the spear in order for the curse to work
First fight between Lancer and Saber. He does invoke it, but it misses the heart and pierces her shoulder. Saber shrugs it off like it's nothing.
>because the dice are naturally loaded in her favor due to the nature of her contract with gaia
Doesn't explain shit.
Luck stat was a bad idea that should have never been put to paper. WTF is gained from having it to begin with?
>What does Saber not being a "true" dead heroic spirit have to do with anything?
She still gets put into a Saber container. She is still treated a dead spirit
>do go on, Ill #rek your shit anytime
The only thing you rekt was your mothers pussy when she was pushing such a large turd out
No.440873
>>440843
> As I understand it, it was literally just Saber's luck stat that got her through it, which I think is bad writing, personally.
Well that I can give you
Counter guardians and heroes are functionally the same shit tho, even if the mechanism how they get recruited is a different one.
>>440849
>What does having Avalon have to do with Caliburn?
Excalibur is literally Caliburn reforged. Avalon is Excalubur´s sheath.
>Why can't he just project Caliburn or Excalibur?
He can but what happens if he does without Avalon you can see in HFs bad ending.
>Where does he get the mana for it anyway?
UBW, he´s got a literal universe worth of energy at his disposal IF he could handle it without dying.
>In other words, shit writing
No its established pretty early on that sorcery transcends understanding of what is naturally possible.
> from surviving a dozen times
Avalon
> including being stabbed in the heart by GAE BOLG
Avalon
> Doesn't explain shit.
Saber cannot die until she gets hold of the grail, and her contract entails her getting hold of the grail at some point.
> She still gets put into a Saber container. She is still treated a dead spirit
That would imply that theres a Saber container
Saber is exclusively reserved for her as a class due to the nature of her contract
cry some more bitch nigga
No.440876
>440849
>Why can't he just project Caliburn or Excalibur?
He does project Excalibur at the end of Heaven's Feel. As for having never seen Caliburn, he certainly sees it, as Saber uses it (usually covered by Invisible Air, but occasionally that drops). He sees Excalibur in the dreams he receives from his connection to Saber.
>Where does he get the mana for it anyway?
Emiya Shirou's Origin is 'sword'. It is the absolute core of his being, the thing from which everything else about him is born. His 'elemental affinity' is also 'sword'. Yes, sword is an element. Just roll with it.
Unlimited Blade Works is the manifestation of this origin. Every sword he has ever seen is basically scanned and added to his database of swords, which takes the form of an infinite plane with swords sticking out of the ground everywhere and massive gears lining the sky. It takes less mana to build the sword inside himself and bring it into the real world than it would to build it in the real world - since most mages can't do that, projection is seen largely as a wasteful parlor trick, and certainly nothing you should base your life around, which is why when Shirou's first successful magic was projection, Emiya Kiritsugu told him to knock it the fuck off and get back to projection practice.
It's noted in the epilogue of UBW that Shirou needs to keep his Reality Marble on the down-low, lest some mage want to kidnap him and use him as a limitless sword factory.
>Shirou has plot armor trough the roof
I agree with you, but there's usually an explanation for it. His first impalement by Gae Bolg wasn't invoked by Lancer, so it was the same as just getting stabbed through the heart normally - still very deadly, but solvable with what was essentially a brute force application of 10 years' worth of Rin's mana. It wasn't instant death, as Gae Bolg would normally be.
Ilya not killing Shirou outright is due to the fact that she wants to make him suffer in Kiritsugu's place for him abandoning her to the mercy of the Einzberns - or that's what she thought happened, anyway. Caster's first capture of him was interrupted by Archer. When he gives up his Command Seals, he becomes, in Caster's eyes, a complete non-issue. She's actually about to kill him when Archer switches sides, but Archer negotiates for his and Rin's release - partially out of respect for Rin, but probably because he wanted to kill Shirou himself.
>>440873
>Counter guardians and heroes are functionally the same shit tho
Counter guardians are mortals who essentially damn themselves to eternal hell as a tool of the Counter Force in exchange for power in life. Normal Heroic Spirits aren't obligated to turn up to the scenes of impending disasters and make sure they don't happen.
Alaya is the fundamental will of humanity to avoid extinction, split off from the will of the Earth and nature, Gaia. When something happens that might threaten humanity, elements of the Counter Force are applied to the situation. This can range from small coincidences ('for want of a nail' kind of thing) to a counter guardian being dispatched to fuck shit up, like Archer was, many times. Counter guardians retain their memories, whereas normal Heroic Spirits don't. Heroic Spirits in general get out of having to do cleanup duty for Alaya because they're closer to Gaia.
t. type-moon autist
No.440877
>>440876
>projection practice
*reinforcement practice
No.440898
>>440876
why is it seen as hell? you get to have power in life and when you're dead you get to stick around some times and help people instead of just being dead
No.440905
>>440898
Because in a purely utilitarian sense, yeah, you're saving lives. But for someone whose ideal is to save as many lives as possible - in Shirou's words, 'a world where no-one I see cries' - spending eternity doing nothing but showing up, killing people, and returning to the abyss isn't fun. Counter guardians probably don't get to stick around and see the lives they've saved, or the crimes of the people they're killing. Even if they did, it's still kind of soul-crushing to be reduced to a tool of death with little or no autonomy.
Besides, it's not sticking around a few times. You're trapped for eternity - or at least until the Earth or humanity dies. There is no rest for a counter guardian. Your personal take on the matter might be different, but for Heroic Spirit Emiya, after a few thousand times being summoned purely to kill, oblivion would have been preferable to the logical result of his ideal.
That's why he spends the latter half of UBW trying to either kill Shirou or, preferably, break his ideal, so that a) Heroic Spirit Emiya would have a chance of never having been born (unlikely, as Saber points out - Heroic Spirits exist outside of time), b) 'our' Emiya Shirou wouldn't have to suffer so, and c) Heroic Spirit Emiya could get the satisfaction of being proven right when faced with his past self. Which rather backfires in UBW - Shirou's victory over Archer was an ideological one, rather than a physical one.
No.440906
>>440898
You dont have free will as a counter-guardian.
If you´re being sent to exterminate an entire people you have to do it regardless of your convictions.
No.440910
>>440876
>He does project Excalibur at the end of Heaven's Feel. As for having never seen Caliburn, he certainly sees it, as Saber uses it (usually covered by Invisible Air, but occasionally that drops). He sees Excalibur in the dreams he receives from his connection to Saber.
BS. Saber doesn't have Caliburn anymore. She only uses Excalibur. That's what covered by invisible air.
>Emiya Shirou's Origin is 'sword'. It is the absolute core of his being, the thing from which everything else about him is born. His 'elemental affinity' is also 'sword'. Yes, sword is an element.
I know that that stupid shit.
I know Shirous projections cost less mana than normal. I also know than in UBW, they are basically all free (but UBW costs mana)
IT STILL REQUIRES MANA
>I agree with you, but there's usually an explanation for it.
Not always (for example - Gil)
And that doesn't make it better either. This doesn't happen once or twice.
It just means the writers keeps putting his character into situations that requires him to come up with bullshit so the character survives.
No.440911
>>440873
>Excalibur is literally Caliburn reforged. Avalon is Excalubur´s sheath.
So what?
Also, they are 2 different swords
>UBW, he´s got a literal universe worth of energy at his disposal IF he could handle it without dying.
Since when does a Reality Marble GIVE you mana? This is getting stupider by the second
>No its established pretty early on that sorcery transcends understanding of what is naturally possible.
Shit writing
>That would imply that theres a Saber container. Saber is exclusively reserved for her as a class due to the nature of her contract
Wut m8?
Saber class isn't exclusive to Arthur. What drugs are you on?
There are 7 containers.
7 "bodies" if you will any servant summoned gets placed into one. Containers created by the Grail.
>cry some more bitch nigga
I?m not crying, I'm llaffin'
No.440914
>>440910
>Saber doesn't have Caliburn anymore
Yep, you're right. Mistake on my part. He actually projects Caliburn in the fight with Berserker.
>IT STILL REQUIRES MANA
Again, true. Shirou has some magical ability - though he's certainly not as good a mage as the blue-blooded Tohsaka. In UBW, Archer uses magic to open his previously closed magic circuits - before that, Shirou basically wrecks his arm trying to pull more magical energy from himself than he had when he projected Kanshou and Bakuya in the fight with Kuzuki. When he uses Unlimited Blade Works in the fight with Gilgamesh, he's got access to Tohsaka's mana pool.
>Not always (for example - Gil)
Except Gilgamesh's greatest flaw is his arrogance. Not only is Shirou a peasant, and therefore not even worthy to look upon his kingly form, he's also a faker and a thief. To actually make an effort in killing Shirou would be like an emperor lowering himself to shovel shit - giving far too much respect to the shit.
Gilgamesh doesn't realise that Shirou is a threat until too late, and he doesn't even accept that Shirou could fight him on equal terms until well into their fight. He hesitated for that second before pulling out his trump card, Ea - a sword so powerful that its use on Shirou was a disgrace - and that's what killed him.
As I said, I agree with you that taken over the whole, Shirou's actions should really, really have gotten himself killed, because he's so naive.
No.440918
i have a question about shirou. many people say that shriou is weak but shirou is just a young kid so in the future wouldnt it be possible for him to be as strong as archer when it comes to summoning weapons with out having a heart attack every time and using crane wings and broken phantasms?
No.440930
>>436936
>>436940
I hope you're joking. Fate world building is as shit as it gets. That faggot just took a modern world and added stupidly inconsistent magic to it. Seriously, this is all it is. Besides it's one of the worst cases of "magic can do anything, don't question it" I have seen in a series that tries to take itself seriously. The writer doesn't even concern himself with consistency.
Fucking hell, this story is terribly written overall and pretentious too which makes it even worse. Your average highschooler can write this kind of shit. I'm still pissed that it adaptations with so high a budget, UBW had some of the best animation, sound and even art I have ever seen, but because of the shitty source material it's only mediocre.
No.440964
>>440918
This isn't even implied, its outright stated.
Hell, the only reason he could kind of fight Archer was because with every blow he blocked, some of Archer's muscle memory went into him because lol future self.
>>440930
>Being this autistic
No.440971
Because Saiba prints money.
No.441046
Alright, I've noticed something in this thread. We've got all these people making comments on a series, many of whom:
1) Are zerofags. 'nuff said.
2) Only watched the anime adaptation(s) and never got a full grasp of the story and explanations.
3) May build off of number 2, but: Don't realize that as FSN and Tsukihime are VNs, the protagonist dies many times. Again and again. Arguments about how the protagonist never dies are thus invalid, as the final version presented to us is what the protagonist gets if he makes all the right decisions and is thus the best possible outcome. Hell, sometimes this even comes down to pure luck regarding his choices, such as the one in UBW where whether or not Shirou gets shot by Rin is determined completely by whether the player chooses to run into the hallway or the stairs.
I'll just say it's best not to comment on something unless you've actually gone through it, and no, the anime adaptations do not adequately explain a lot of what happens in the story, and thus are not proper substitutes.
No.441084
>>441046
>Are zerofags. 'nuff said.
UBW and maybe Fate could be a more enjoyable story than Zero, but it would have to be handled the same way, I.e. all the adolescent nonsense would have to be minimized in a major way. The critical flaw of Zero, likewise, was everything related to Caster.
No.441091
>>440765
I'm specifically referencing the anime series. I've not played the VN. I played Tsukihime many years ago. It was pretty decent. I liked how it liked fucking you in the ass so much before you could get "good" endings, but I don't remember a ton more beyond that.
No.441092
>>441084
what was wrong with zero caster?
No.441113
>>441092
Caster and Ryuunosuke had no real bearing in the arcs of the more interesting characters and relationships. Ryuunosuke and Caster's characters and motivations felt absurd and clownish. The whole edge factor of team caster didn't appeal to me, and felt dumb and irrelevant.
Giving Caster a far fetched connection to another character in the story, Saber, by having him mistake her for somebody else was also dumb and irrelevant.
Sidelining the entire main plot for two episodes to have everybody team up and fight the existential threat, that Caster suddenly and inexplicably presented, was also a poor direction choice in my opinion. And it drew attention, focus, and significance away from the rest of the story.
Team Caster would have been more interesting if the Grail had just dumped a servant on some random, troubled youth because it needed a 7th. Then have that youth not really get the picture, and make some foolish mistake, and be brutally picked off early. The empty time left for the series to fill could be spent developing any number of more interesting characters (Lancelot comes to mind), and Assassin could get a few more action scenes, instead of being rather stupidly sent into an unnecessary, all-or-nothing suicide mission for the purpose of removing them from the plot.
No.441146
>>441091
>I've not played the VN
This shit. It's this shit that I'm talking about. Don't bitch about a story being bad if you've never touched the source material.
>>441084
The main problem with Zerofags is that their perception of what the Fate series is supposed to be about is skewed because they made the poor decision to go through the series out of its intended order, if they even bother to watch/play any other Type-moon media. Because of Zerofags, we get edgy preteens who bitch and moan about how FSN has too much romance, not enough action and edginess, and not enough focus on those faggots' favorite character, Gilgamesh.
On the topic of adolescent nonsense, you'll have to elaborate what you mean before I can really respond, but keep in mind that all the characters in the series are adolescents, and also I've heard that Nasu was too at the time he came up with the base story for Fate.
fucking shit this took me forever to think of to type, goddamn college niggers keep your shitty rap music off, I'm trying to study for a Goddamn test
No.441148
>>441146
>not releasing your inner ape to assist you in your studies
No.441152
>>441091
that's why there are so many "filler characters", duh. play the other routes before saying "filler", rider, ilya and sakura aren't just there as placeholders.
No.441188
>>441146
>you'll have to elaborate what you mean before I can really respond
I got into anime rather late in the game, relatively speaking, although I'm probably older than you. For this reason, I watched F/Z first. Because I found it first on /a/ (which, by the way, before you go into board identity politics and stereotyping, shares your opinion on the subject almost verbatim). After that, I read the V/N.
The Shirou-Saber character arcs / developments in Fate, and the Shirou-Archer developments in UBW could quite possibly be the skeleton of a story that could rival F/Z as an anime. But, like I said, the execution would require the same cinematic finesse, expertise, and attention to detail that was given to Zero. (I'm sure you can agree we didn't see that with Ufotable's UBW.) And, in my opinion, it would require most of the schoolyard crap to get axed.
Either make a BS highschool harem anime, or don't. Don't try to make something else, and then also have it be a highschool harem anime.
No.441191
>>441148
What's the point of greentexting when you're just going to spoiler anon? :^)
Holy shit, 1:00 in the morning and the niggers are still being obnoxious. And I left my niggerspray at home
>>441188
>Triple dubs checked
Good job on trying to redeem yourself by reading the VN anon.
I'm just going to chalk this up to it being way easier for Zero to be adapted into an anime, what with it being a light novel series, and FSN not being so easy because it was a VN. Although Ufotable tried their best to make it so through their added scenes, FSN's story was never meant to be a sequel to Zero, it was meant to be the base. Not to mention, Zero best sets up the story for the Fate route, which resolves many of the setups at the end of Zero, but Ufotable animated UBW.
It's probably best to describe Zero as what I've seen many anons here describe it as: fanservice for people who read FSN. It can be enjoyed in all its edgy glory by people who haven't read the VN, but like I said, it screws up those peoples' perception of the series. FSN is an eroge, so those harem-esque scenes are a practical necessity.
No.441194
>>441146
>tfw I fell for the "read the VN" meme
No.441195
>>441191
I would run some black metal really loud for ten minutes or so. That usually works, from my experience.
No.441197
>>441191
>it being way easier for Zero to be adapted into an anime, what with it being a light novel series, and FSN not being so easy because it was a VN
Imo Ufotable made the mistake of trying to please the fanbase by sticking to the VN too liturgically. The anime should have been a stand alone work (with more artistic and directional affiliations to Zero if anything), which had the primary objective of being the best anime it could be. I think the fact that the fanbase would have been upset over relatively minor revisions and alterations really weighed the anime down. Even it's cinematic execution seemed more flat and formulaic, with the exception of action sequences.
For example, it wouldn't have bothered me at all to have Ilya be portrayed as a young adult, and not an edgy loli. Likewise, if Rin and Shirou had taken more realistic precautions (going into hiding, ceasing to addend school), such major plot changes would have been appropriate and made the series more interesting imo. Stuff like that would not detract from the main Shirou-Archer story. Dialing back the tsundere stuff, too, wouldn't have detracted from a Shirou-Rin romance.
But what can I say. Nippons apparently prefer to see the same shit over and over again.
>[watching Zero first] screws up those peoples' perception of the series
I was bored out of my mind reading the routes after watching Zero. And I have to say that I probably would have enjoyed it all much more if Zero and /a/ hadn't spoiled me on pretty much everything beforehand.
No.441203
>>440964
Which was never explained.
WHERE DID SHIROU GET THAT MEMORY STEALING MAGIC FROM?
The plot gods, that's why.
This why I hate. Every fucking things is so damn CONVINIENT for Shirou and Saber.
EVERYTHING falls in place to give them just the right conditions to win. And if it doesn't, then a Deus Ex Machine pops up.
No.441205
Type moon is shit.
The only good things to come out of it are Kara no Kyokai and Prisma Illya
I know you fanboys love to jerk your gerkins over this extremely mediocre powerlevel chuuni slef insert bullshit, but in your hearts you know it is true.
If you are a big enough faggot to waifu saiba or rinnot even going to mention atari dumbledore because even you fags aren't that bad you are basically a bad person and you should get some taste and pray for the chance to become 2d so you can lick Illya or Kuro's ass.
guaranteed_replies_from_buttblasted_and_shittershoahed_trash.tiff
No.441206
>>441046
>1 and 2
MUH PURITY!
MUH TRUE FANS!
>3)
Irrelevant.
We're not seeing any of those "routes". You think a "choose your own adventure random result" make it better somehow?
Who gives a FUCK about VN outcomes that aren't canon anyway? I only care about what's presented to me in the format I have before me.
A move based on a book is judged by how the movie is, not how he book is. Not to mention, what is the book sucks too. And yes, the VN's suck too.
I bet half of you faggots are sucking Type-moon dick because it was the first VN and first ergo you jerked off to.
No.441207
>>436773
They received translations.
No.441210
>>441205
>The only good things to come out of it are Kara no Kyokai
Opinion discarded.
No.441211
>>441146
>The main problem with Zerofags is that their perception of what the Fate series is supposed to be about is skewed because they made the poor decision to go through the series out of its intended order, if they even bother to watch/play any other Type-moon media. Because of Zerofags, we get edgy preteens who bitch and moan about how FSN has too much romance, not enough action and edginess, and not enough focus on those faggots' favorite character, Gilgamesh.
>MUH PROPER ORDER
Cry some more faggot.
No one cares about your precious theories of the "right" order.
I read everything FNS related and Zero does a lot of things better than FNS. Hell, FNS route is shit. UBW is decent. HF is...meh.
Gilgamesh certainly was far more interesting and better written in Zero. There's was more to him that moustache twirling villany.
I do agree with >>441113 that FZ Caster was weak. But other than that FZ had better pacing and character building.
Not to mention that no everyone is a fukken kid in a school.
If there's edgy preetens around here, then it would be faggots like you who couldn't detect quality writing and world-building if it rand them over with the Ionina Heitairoi
No.441213
>>441203
Or how about kizuki-sensei (a random teacher from le the main cast's highschool) just coincidentally being strong enough to fight a servant in person?
Or Shinji being a convenient le hysterical, shrieking psychopath villain with astonishingly convenient grudges and obsessions to facilitate tensionless action plotpoints?
Transparent shit like that just bugs the devil out of me. Why do you want to shit all over your own story, nasu?
No.441214
>>441205
Weak bait
>>441191
It's probably best to describe Zero as what I've seen many anons here describe it as: fanservice for people who read FSN. It can be enjoyed in all its edgy glory by people who haven't read the VN, but like I said, it screws up those peoples' perception of the series. FSN is an eroge, so those harem-esque scenes are a practical necessity.
FNS is shit and you are even bigger shit for defending it
>>441152
>that's why there are so many "filler characters", duh. play the other routes before saying "filler", rider, ilya and sakura aren't just there as placeholders.
But they ARE filer in UBW.
"Read the VN" is a shit non-argument.
No.441216
>>441213
Kizuki knows martials arts and he was buffed by caster the entire time (which is why he lost to Archer so easily after Caster died. You can see the enchantment dissapear).
Still, it did feel wrong.
No.441218
File: 1458207929456.jpg (145.06 KB, 692x713, 692:713, 829fd1649a21e8fbc63763c4bd….jpg)
>>441210
Sage aint a downboat
And keep plugging your ears and screaming
>I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALALA
You fags have been keeping this up for over a decade. Holy shit, type M-O-O-N spells moon fags have been arguing in defense of mediocrity for almost almost fifteen years. Like holy shit I remember arguing with you people when Tsukihime and again when Fate/Shit Night got DEENed. All of you fag keep screaming
>READ THE VN READ THE VN
And I did.
And it is still shit.
Like honestly I am hardpressed to think this is the same people with the same shit taste after all these years. I imagine type-moron is like High Five. One faggot caught the bug and spread it to others. Before they all die off from AIDS their pass it on to another faggot. I can't honestly believe that people have been defending this shit for this long. You figure that most people don't live in a bubble and would have read or seen something else and come to the conclusion that what they like is shit. So they give it up, but look back in horror at the new bug chasers they created.
This is my annual contribution to a type mess thread. Please return to your regularly scheduled circlejerk where you desperately try to convince each other that it isn't shit, and that nagging doubt in the back of your head doesn't exist.
No.441219
>>441211
>I do agree with >>441113 (You) that FZ Caster was weak. But other than that FZ had better pacing and character building.
I'm not arguing the inferiority of Zero. I'm explaining why team Caster is a blight on that series. Obviously, the character arcs in Zero are better than UfoUBW. Like I said, I think Shirou's stuff in UBW could make a really great anime, especially with Ufo magic. But it would have to be done well, and taken seriously, which Ufo didn't do. They played it by the book because it's safer to do that, apparently. So Shriou's development in UBW was obvious, hammy, and watered down with all the shounenesque highschool harem crap.
No.441225
>>441213
>everybody told him not to go to school without his servant
>"Don't worry bro, in a strategic fight to the death, surely nobody would want to secure their safety and advantage at the risk of clueless civilians seeing something they couldn't possibly understand. So it's 100% certain that masters only attack each other at night brah."
>His entire school is attacked by a master during the day
>He has to use a command spell to summon his servant
>He then continues to attend classes without his servant
No.441226
>>441225
>He and his servant openly attack his teacher and his teacher's servant
>He attends that teacher's class the next day, without his servant, when he has one command spell left
No.441229
>>441210
Actually I am going to ammend this.
Kara no Kyokai, Prisma Illya, and Carnival Phantasm.
It's easy to forget how awesome CP is because the material it is mocking is co absolute shit tier that you want to think everything associated with it is even worse. CP is brilliant and takes the piss out of all Typo- Mune faggots, but you are all too clueless to realize you are being made fun of.
No.441246
>>441218
That's because people fall in love with one aspect of something that is in it's entirety medicore or bad, and then try to justifiy their love by rationalizing that it's a masterpiece.
Which is total BS, because it's perfectly OK to like the good parts of something even though it's shitty.
Weather it's a specific character, or the setting or the POTENTIAL (what could be done with this in competent hands).
I like FSN because it's setting has a good premise and great potential, with some good scenes and characters
I hate it because how unused that potential is, how shit some characters are and how shit the writing is.
No.441249
Because of relentless autists who has never read anything else in their entire feeble life.
No.441277
>>436940
>Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime especially have some really cool stuff going for them.
Secondary.
You can tell as anyone with three hours of reading Tsuki in their head knows damn-well the "world Nasu built" wasn't even remotely mentioned in KnK or Tsuki. As in, at all. All the shit you guys are praising—the major details around magic, magecraft, and sacred rites, the hard story behind Type-Moon's creation & destruction, the identities of the DAA not Nero Chaos or Roa or Wallachia, the deeper lore on the five demon hunting families, anything at all about Atlas or the Clocktower—all that shit was in the Materials guide, and not in Tsukihime or KnK or even Fate/Stay Night. Nasu gave just enough in each iteration to engage in THAT specific world, and not the overarching world beyond it.
What you get in Tsuki is the mystery surrounding Misaki, the Tohno history and a brief (BRIEF) Nanaya lookover, inclination on what the Burial Agency is about, and the nature of vampires in Tsukihime. You don't even get Shiki's father's name or story until Kagetsu Tohya.
>>440742
>people replied to this seriously
Read the visual novel.
>>440809
>Shirou, the talentless mage who can't do shit:
>- in FNS, his first projection is a A+ rank Caliburn, which he never saw
Bait/10, apply yourself.
>>440829
taking the bait
oh shit nigga what are you doing
No.441287
Fate/Zero catapulted it into mainstream. Prior to that it'd been popular among otaku, but not really in the casual consciousness. But the fact F/Z was written by Urobucchi gave it some star power, and animated by Ufotable gave it some dazzle. The fact also it was many peoples' first exposure to Nasu's amazing fantasy universe also stuck with them.
And now we're stuck with Zerofags who fundamentally don't understand anything about the setting and hate F/SN, when basically everything of worth in F/Z came from F/SN.
No.441303
>>441287
And zero is not even canon...
No.441326
>>441214
This guy gets it. See the anime series can't just exist as a nod to people who already know the whole story via the VN. What the fuck is the point of that? I understand, in other arcs, Rider, Sakura, Ilya played larger roles. The problem is that in this anime series which lasted, what... 30 or so episodes? They have one episode where Ilya is insanely strong, then she vanishes until they return her as a sniveling child. That smacks of reverse plot armor to an extreme level. Even if she were supposed to be a placeholder, why would they spend an entire episode dramatizing the backstory of a placeholder? It's a waste of an episode. Rider was a throwaway plot holder, ok. At least give us a bit more about her beyond a quick flash of her standing over Sakura then her death scene. Sakura? The anime pretty much made her out to be the love interest until she vanishes in favor of Rin, then she's gone for 20 eps until the final ep where she shows up in a wrap up.
Also the whole "I have to save the most evil scumfuck in the game who just spent two episodes trying to rape me" end for Shinji was fucking unbearable. Archer needs to stop teaching Shirou his lesson on how people suck and teach fucking Rin a thing or two.
No.441330
>>440964
>disliking shitty writing makes you autistic
No.441366
>>441195
Sounds like a plan, but unfortunately I lack any speakers whatsoever. I also don't want to make the situation any worse for my fellow white brethren.
>>441197
Here it's kind of a lose-lose scenario. Ufotable to pick between appealing to the fanbase, which resulted in UBW, a decent anime on its own but makes for a strange transition if one watches it after Zero.
Alternatively they could have done what you suggested, but I think that may have been suicide in the long run as they sort of tried changing the story in the 2006 anime, and while it was considered good when it came out, it is remembered in the long term as shit.
>I probably would have enjoyed it all much more if Zero and /a/ hadn't spoiled me on pretty much everything beforehand.
Yeah, spoilers are a big part of why playing FSN first is better.
>>441206
Type-Moon has said that all possible endings are canon, including the bad ends :^)
>MUH PURITY!
Nope, it's about how going through the series out of order spoilers things that happen in FSN. Shocking, I know
>MUH TRUE FANS!
I don't really care whether someone is a true fan or not, just that the VN covers the protagonists thoughts and goes into much greater detail than the anime does, so the answers to many questions one may have after watching the anime are answered in the VN.
>>441211
>"Theories of the 'right' order"
See above.
And stop the Zerofagging. Your autism is giving me cancer.
>>441214
You're a nigger anon :^)
No.441445
>>441326
Read
the
Goddamned
Visual
Novel
ALL of your questions will be answered when you do.
No.441463
>>441326
waaaaaaaaaaaaaah
i'm complaining about the lack of character development that is developed in another story that i don't want to even try to touch because all media should be able to stand alone without having to lean on other stories as a crutch
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh why does ubw suck
No.441555
>>441366
Ten minutes are not a big deal. For the best effect, I propose Nyktalgia. Hellish for an amateur. Funny thing, you risk taking a liking to black metal that way.
No.441591
>>441046
Fuck you and the horse you rode on.
It's always the same, whenever someone criticizes it's always "filthy secondaries", "but you probably don't know everything", "but you can't judge it", "your opinion doesn't matter"
Fuck you.
Unless we specifically tell you, you have no idea how much anyone here knows.
Secondly, it doesn't fukken matter whats in the VN. The VN's are shit anyway (like everything else) and knowing that stuff personally makes me like everything LESS, not more.
If I am going to judge the anime, then I'm judging it on it's own merits. I don't care what's NOT in it.
The "best possible outcome" is still BS btw. It could be used to justify any story.
"The character doesn't have plot shields, he just save-scummed until he got the best possible outcome."
that must be the weakest defense in history.
No.441593
>>441146
>The main problem with Zerofags is that their perception of what the Fate series is supposed to be about is skewed because they made the poor decision to go through the series out of its intended order, if they even bother to watch/play any other Type-moon media. Because of Zerofags, we get edgy preteens who bitch and moan about how FSN has too much romance, not enough action and edginess, and not enough focus on those faggots' favorite character, Gilgamesh.
>is supposed to be about
HAHAHAHA
I only have one criteria, faggot - and that is a well written story and setting.
That has shit to do with your ramblings.
A movie is either well made or isn't. A book is either well written or it isn't.
"B-But you don't understand!"
No, you don't understand the meaning of the world quality.
It is percisely because of that that faggot praise the VN's and FNS so highly. Babies first decent fantasy. Utterly blind to it's flaws.
>>441277
>Bait/10, apply yourself.
Prove me wrong, faggot
No.441595
>>441445
TAKE
YOUR
SHIT
NOVEL
AND
SHOVE
IT
UP
YOUR
ASS
Shit writing is shit writing.
Shit answers are still shit.
No.441596
>>441366
>Type-Moon has said that all possible endings are canon, including the bad ends :^)
So what?
You can say that for every single thing ever written.
You know, the multi-verse theory?
Maybe in some parallel universe Skynet won and Rambo broke his neck falling off a cliff.
>Nope, it's about how going through the series out of order spoilers things that happen in FSN. Shocking, I know
So the impact of a few things is lessend? So what?
I don't need watch order to do that - simply watching enough anime and reading enough books will have me see plot twists miles ahead, thus reducing the impact.
It has no effect on the writing and plot holes.
>I don't really care whether someone is a true fan or not, just that the VN covers the protagonists thoughts and goes into much greater detail than the anime does, so the answers to many questions one may have after watching the anime are answered in the VN.
It's the job of the anime to answer pertinent questions. If it never addresses plot holes, then it fails.
No.441637
>>441596
The anime just said "fuck it. We're gonna pretty much do the VN as is, no questions asked." They played it safe, and it was disappointing because many of the flaws of the VNs writing were just amplified in the anime. My list of changes, from the top of my head
>Make Rin be confidant in the relationship, or dont
Having her bounce between openly flirting with and teasing Shirou, and being all over the top dere flustered and embarrassed, was dumb
>Find a better way to portray Shirou's PTSD
for lack of creativity, Shirou would just suddenly be drawn with glassy, baggy eyes when the subject was broached. It was obvious and inconsistent with the rest of his portrayal
>Develop Illya and Caster in the early series
Half episode, post ex facto developments are boring. Develop them as actual characters, not sideshows
No.441642
>>436826
>Why is was popular in Japan?
Tsukihime was popular because it was surprisingly good for a doujin game (and inspired other higher quality (for doujin) games, like Higurashi, after its release)
Everyone wanted a Tsukihime 2, but FSN came out, which ended up being the Star Wars of the company.
No.441644
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>441642
>inspired other higher quality games, like Higurashi
And you wonder why no one takes Type-Faggots seriously
No.441645
>>441644
games released during comiket are generally pre-tsukihime and post-tsukihime
No.441723
Following a countdown website this weekend, Marvelous has announced Fate/Extella for PlayStation 4 and PS Vita in the latest issue of Weekly Famitsu.
Fate/Extella is an action game that sees the curtain rise on a new battle. Playable character Nero Claudius (voiced by Sakura Tange), of the “Saber” class, is pictured in the magazine.
The game follows the after-story of the Moon Holy Grail War.
Servants (Playable Characters)
Nero Claudius (voiced by Sakura Tange) – A servant who fought through the Moon Holy Grail War. She also has a mysterious form change.
Caster Tamamo no Mae (voiced by Chiwa Saito) – A servant who uses various magic skills.
Saber Altera (voiced by Mamiko Noto) – Her first appearance in the main series after her appearance in Fate/Grand Order.
Development is 60 percent complete.
http://gematsu.com/2016/03/fateextella-announced-ps4-ps-vita
No.441739
>>441642
How different is the Japanese Type-Moon fanbase compared to the western Type-Moon fanbase?
No.441754
>>441723
They should throw in Tesla Archer.
No.441760
I still remember the magic of discovering the Nasuverse all those years ago.
I remember waiting for Nasu's next masterpiece to arrive.
Now I've come to terms with the fact that he doesn't write any more, he's going to whore out Fate for ever and ever, and we'll be lucky if we ever get another volume of DDD ever again.
I just wish Type-Moon would crash and burn forcing Nasu to have to sell the rights to Fate to pay off his debts. He'd live out the rest of his days as a novelist having to write actual stories again, and never again be involved with the Fate franchise.
No.441765
>>441084
nasu doesnt write cause he loves to play video games which is why there are these fate games getting made
No.441861
>>441754
Unlockable character perhaps?
No.441874
The dialogue in FSN was so irritating. Even putting the mid battle casual conversations and lengthy explanations aside,
Char1: >X is Y
Char2: >Are you saying that X is Y!?
Char 1: >Yes, X is Y
They did shit like this more times than I can count on one hand. That's just lazy writing.
No.441909
the reason why people like Fate/Stay Night is the same reason why people think Pantera is the best metal band ever
nostalgia blinds people from seeing that there are better works and better metal bands than F/SN and Pantera (respectively)
No.441923
Type-Moon works have the same problem as everything else that gets popular. People who are new to it hear about it first through its thunderous popularity, and are thus primed in two ways: their natural human contrarianism is triggered, and they go in with extremely high expectations due to the praise they've been hearing.
This is a very different mentality going in to a game, story, or any kind of media than going in as one of those faggot hipsters who liked everything you like before it was cool. When you had to wait for mirror moon to finish the patch for Heaven's Feel, you weren't in the mentality of "everyone is talking about this fucking thing I've never heard of like it gives you blowjobs in the morning, fine I guess I'll fucking check it out then." You were in the mentality of "Hey, what's this thing? This looks kind of cool, I wonder if there's more about it I can find!" One mentality is a pull-economy of interest, and the other is a push-economy, and push-economies never ever work.
The simple sad fact is that you will enjoy something less if you found it only after it got massively popular, and you will enjoy something more if you found it beforehand. This is not to say that you SHOULD enjoy something more or less, only how this factor affects your enjoyment of said thing. You can't enjoy something as much when you feel pressured to look into it just to finally figure out what the hell everyone is already talking about or when you are under the expectations you've built up from the high praise you've been hearing about it.
There's nothing that can really be done about this. There is always going to be something you weren't interested in when it wasn't big, and there are always going to be things you got into before they got popular and are now getting bashed due to their popularity. You just have to learn to deal with the fact that you will be in the right mentality to enjoy things sometimes and in the wrong mentality at others. As long as you maintain self-awareness and take things easy, you should be alright.
No.442029
>>441909
>respectively
This was completely unnecessary, my friend.
No.442036
>>441909
> nostalgia
You keep using that word...
No.442047
Probably because of the premise of having OP historical figures fighting with each other in a survival game. This and waifus.
No.442789
>>441923
I didn't play the VN until very recently, and it was because one of my close friends had gotten the files off another friend. I saw a few pictures of it, and I thought it looked interesting, and I expressed some interest in what he told me the story was about.
Forgive me, at that time I was still fairly normalfaggish and was slightly reluctant to play a VN because I thought it was the threshold of weebdom
I was right
Point is I had never even heard of it at all prior to then (and this was not even a year ago, too). So I went in with zero expectations and I ended up liking the story. People who do nothing but watch anime and read VNs are of course going to be far more critical of the work, but hey, I enjoyed it.
No.442912
>>442047
>premise of having OP historical figures fighting with each other in a survival game
Is this actually appealing to someone over the age of 15 or so? I mean the first thought that pops into my mind when I see a premise like that is that the fights probably have a bad case of battleshonen, where they are won and lost over arbitrary, convenient bullshit that the writer pulls out of his ass, and sure enough that is the case with Fate.
And even past that, it doesn't really sound all that great, especially when you factor in how little these characters have to do with the historical figures they are supposed to be representing.
No.442916
>>441923
I feel really sad for people who can't enjoy things like that, there is so much contend related that it can turn into a full month of constant entertainment.
No.442919
>>442916
You really don't have to, and in fact, shouldn't feel bad for anyone because of that logic, because using that logic, one could also say
>I feel really sad for people who can't enjoy Harry Potter fanfiction just because they go in with too high expectations, there's months worth of constant entertainment and they're missing out
No.442920
>>442919
I do feel sad that I cant enjoy harry potter fanfictions and scat
No.442921
>>442920
It's still far from the level of My Immortal.
No.442924
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>442922
The animated series OST song with the same name. Not as good as from the movie IMO.
No.443065
>>441923
>You can't enjoy something as much when you feel pressured to look into it just to finally figure out what the hell everyone is already talking about or when you are under the expectations you've built up from the high praise you've been hearing about it.
How new are you?
Only faggots feel pressure from the the popular clique, and only double-faggots believe the hype.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? the bigger the hype, the more you're convinced it's trash?
No.443097
>>441923
This. I knew nothing of F/SN before reading it other than it being on a /vn/ recommendation chart and the fact that it was one of the more popular visual novels out there. Having not known at all why people liked it beforehand, I had found the overall experience to be just okay. Not the greatest/worst vn ever, but passable overall. the same goes for Katawa Shoujo since there are far worse visual novels made on both the western and eastern front, albeit with probably less shitty fanbases Fate was a little rocky all throughout with some serious pacing issues due to being the primary infodump arc, Unlimited Blade Works was fucking great, and Heaven's Feel was a mixed bag considering that it had both based Ilya and boring Sakura.
and I don't care what the popular opinion is on /a/. Sakura is a far bigger waifubait character than Saber
>docile
>most feminine personality
>enjoys cooking and cleaning
>biggest breasts of all the heroines
>kohai/senpai dynamic
>has more of a "has to be rescued" type story than the other two who are more or less independent
>puts up with MC's whining more than the other 3
>"proper" girl that never breaks the rules
Saber might be more appealing to the /v/-type meme-waifu faggots that are attracted to "badass" characters but the body pillow buying, Otakon attending, 2ch shitposting NEETS would much prefer wormslut. The fact that SEIBAH became the cashcow character instead is something I blame on what I call the "Reimu effect" where the only reason she's the most popular character is because she's the first one you see rather than anything actually having to do with the character.
No.443396
>>443097
If Fate routes had pacing issues, then Heaven's Feel had them much more so. The tension of "when will everything finally blow in your face?" was unbearable.
No.443397
>>443097
Sabber's was an emotionless robot for most of her route. She lives a life of self sacrifice to try to save others.
The Japs eat that shit up. It's the reason Homura is so popular.
Plus I think they like the fantasy of rescuing a girl from her own obsession/teaching her to enjoy life. A similar thing goes on with Arcueid. While she's not a robot like Seiba, she only ever lived to hunt vampires before she met Shiki, who taught her the joy of life.
Shirou meanwhile criticizes Saber for being too self sacrificial. That she has to take care of herself. He even takes her out on a date, reminiscent of the date Shiki takes Arc on in TH.
The sense of loss, of Saber having to give up on saving England, and then dying, was pretty crushing. Fate wasn't the best route, but the ending was pretty moving, for me at least.
I agree with you that I think Sakura was intended to be more of a waifubait than Sabber, it didn't really work out like Nasu planned.
They were all waifu bait though, don't forget Rin, Tsundere, good looking popular girl in her class with top grades who never dates any guys but ends up falling for the protag, meeting with her on the school roof to discuss secret magic battles, zettai ryouki, twin tails, etc.
No.443436
>>443397
Come to think of it, that motivation is common to all routes in Tsukihime, more or less.They all end with whoever getting saved from their shitty life except Akiha lol
No.443468
>>443436
Good point. I think it just didn't irritate me in Tsukihime like it did in F/SN because the MC of TH isn't a preachy faggot like Shirou in F/SN who keeps going "YOU SHOULDN'T BE FIGHTING BECAUSE UR A GIRL!1!1!" despite the fact that all the female servants could probably kill him at any second if they wanted to. Shiki helped the characters he did because he wanted to and even had sex with Arcuid because he wanted to, while Shirou is just a white-knight faggot that would probably wear a fedora if he existed today and only ever fucked the girls because PLOT REASONS.
No.443570
>>443097
Saiba is waifubait because she's totally devoted to protag (that's basically what her character is). She starts out SRS BIDNIZ and then starts blushing and getting all schoolgirl deredere shortly into the story. Makes protag feel all manly and cool that he turns a genderless killing machine into a hot wet waifu dripping in her metal britches for him.
No.443605
>>443397
The thing with Rin is that she being tsundere was not very good at keeping secrets. And her family business with the Grail War is a pretty big secret. She wouldn't date anyone she would have to keep in the dark about the biggest affairs of her life. Too draining mentally, I think.
No.443758
>>441046
>pure luck
One choice blocks her line of sight, the other doesn't.
>pure luck
No.443759
>>443468
why wasn't tsukihime as successful as fate/stay night?
No.443785
Remember Type-Moon's 10th anniversary festival?
https://youtu.be/83nPn0IThJU
No.443796
>>443759
Because Tsukihime had a very limited release at comiket while F/SN was released to a wider audience. Fate owes it's popularity to tsukihime and tsukihime in turn owes it's current popularity to Fate. If they would just lock Nasu in a room again maybe they would finish the Tsukihime remake.
No.443821
>>443097
>Sakura is a far bigger waifubait character than Saber
Sakura has shit for screen time.
No.443823
>>443821
No wonder if doing mostly slice-of-life shit during it.
No.443852
File: 1458671119100.jpg (304.64 KB, 1181x1748, 1181:1748, a254d2c283893624bd570bd58e….jpg)
>>443065
This is exactly what I was talking about. You see a lot of hype about something and it immediately primes you against it. This isn't "the other way around," it's exactly as I described it. You see a bunch of people hyping something and right off the bat you start feeling resentful and you are already putting yourself into the mindset that this thing you've never heard of must be bad and simply receiving too much unearned praise. That prevents you from being able to give it a fair chance, so you aren't able to enjoy it as much as you would have if you had only heard about it before you got all the hype.
tl;dr: Don't be such an edgelord.
No.443927
>>443436
>They all end with whoever getting saved from their shitty life except Akiha
Aren't you forgetting someone?
No.443973
>>443852
>hear about Fate
>whatever, I'll get around to it
>hear about Prisma Illya
>gonna watch the fuck out of that
>watch it
>it's got some decent parts and some awful parts
>see people going on about how much better it is if you actually know the characters and READ THE VN
>read the VN
>it's all the shit parts of Prisma Illya, without any of the decent ones
>more shit parts
>even more shit
I went in with moderate expectations, looked forward to it but wasn't completely hype.
It's not that people go in with this and that kind of expectation, it's that Fate isn't really something people would consider good aside from two demographics, casuals and battleshonenfags.
No.443974
>>443973
>two demographics, casuals and battleshonenfags.
You're missing an often-overlooked demographic, too: lorefags who are in it because of the setting rather than the characters. Examples of science-based (for lack of a better phrase) magic with actual fucking rules are few and far between to begin with, since nearly all shonen abandons consistency by the second arc or never makes an attempt to explain the mechanics of its universe.
Fate, for all its flaws, has a pretty sweet universe, in the same tier as Fullmetal Alchemist or Toaru no Index/Railgun. Like Index, though, the universe is bogged down by the strictly mediocre characters.
No.444036
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>443927
If you stretch enough the meaning of "saved".... Still a pity.
No.444045
>>443974
> magic with actual fucking rules
I don't see how Fate is any good at this. Maybe it's better than most shounen shit, but that's not a very high bar at all.
I read through all of F/SN and I don't feel there's any consistency or reliability in the rules. In fact, just the opposite. F/SN seems to explicitly break its own stated rules more often than it follows them and then say "wow, incredible!". It's not incredible, you fuck.
Is the problem that I read it translated, or what? Because this shit is fucked.
No.444080
>>443927
Well, what about her?
No.444117
>>443974
>Magic with actual fucking rules.
>Shit mage with no mana pool creates a fake noble phantasm which can completely drain the mana pool of the real versions owner who has a godlike, immeasurably beyond every other character's mana pool.
>Proceeds to use it, by sacrificing his own body to fuel it. Kills an unkillable DemiGod seven times with it.
>Suffers a minor headache for a few hours.
Apparently my allergies are worse than the repercussions of sacrificing my body to kill God a bunch of times.
>Rules
Top Kek.
No.444119
>>444045
>>444117
No sense in trying to argue my way out of it. I'm only halfway through UBW, right after the first projection, and Fate made hardly any use of projection outside of the Berserker fight.
Does it really abandon the rules it had spent so long setting up? Up until now it's been fairly consistent for a universe that outright gives heroes the power to violate the laws of physics.
No.444178
>>444119
>Does it really abandon the rules it had spent so long setting up?
No it doesn't, not that I remember.
Though it's been a while since I read FSN, I don't remember any major contradicting of the magic rules.