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File: 04e218ff301c2eb⋯.jpg (167.35 KB, 640x894, 320:447, Dhrc1rjU0AAqkmb.jpg)

 No.841247

>A new Dragon Ball movie is being made

>It shows massive promise, and it seems like it will be the best animated DB movie yet.

>All of the characters are looking better than ever.

<The movie is about fucking broly

If you haven't given up on the franchise at this point somehow, now's the time. I'm not even sure if I want to see the movie now.

 No.841263

>>841247

Wait, people don't like Broly?


 No.841276

File: c0cb07120fffd61⋯.mp4 (5.52 MB, 480x360, 4:3, ブロリーでおどるポンポコリン.mp4)

<The movie is about fucking broly

You say it like it's a bad thing. Broly is great.


 No.841284

>>841247

>Broly

Fuck yes.


 No.841286

File: 94db4d64369bc58⋯.png (609.9 KB, 930x1024, 465:512, ClipboardImage.png)

People love Broly, what are you going to do?


 No.841289

>Dragon Ball saga after Dragon Ball itself

No.


 No.841303

File: 7df902db214b926⋯.gif (2.05 MB, 500x375, 4:3, vegeta laughing and throwi….gif)

>Broly is now canon

Well this certainly brightens my mood for today.


 No.841315

>>841247

I don't see the issue? Given all the other enemies that have appeared and whatnot, how can people be so pissed about Broly? At least he looks cool powered up.


 No.841321

File: b6e0320b3d00b07⋯.mp4 (6.07 MB, 640x360, 16:9, Dragon Ball- Bio-Broly VS ….mp4)

I actually liked Bio Broly, because it was more about Android 18 having to deal with two little shits, and Bio Broly was actually differentish when it came to villains. Blob monster was at least different.


 No.841324

File: 69e84e651f03b03⋯.png (100.43 KB, 625x626, 625:626, 69e.png)


 No.841339

File: 43b2c1a9e259188⋯.jpeg (31.85 KB, 367x367, 1:1, B765F45B-0A13-44C2-A514-F….jpeg)

>>841324

>actually mad that it’s Broly

What? Is he too silly for this shonen series that was initially about a kung-fu monkey boy but later became about wrestling space vegetables?


 No.841340

File: 7d0865f8aa7f66d⋯.png (188.2 KB, 640x400, 8:5, 1467479005949.png)

>>841247

AHAHAHAHAHA FUCK YOU, BROLY AUTIST.

I told you they'd make him canon. It didn't happen with Kale, but look at you now.

This is hilarious.


 No.841346

File: 7ce7d21a9f34424⋯.jpg (28.27 KB, 202x249, 202:249, IMG_7144.JPG)

I can't believe it


 No.841407

>>841339

I'd rather have something new then more recycled shit.


 No.841408

File: db2cdb643e094f0⋯.png (135.95 KB, 526x417, 526:417, pajeets.PNG)

>>841407

This is a long running anime to find the biggest nigger on the block. It constantly recycles content. If you still have any hope that this series might develop in any way anon, I don't know what to say.


 No.841411

>>841247

Only fake dragonball fans hate hype and pandering.


 No.841445

File: 439feea4d8dc08c⋯.jpg (32.88 KB, 694x693, 694:693, 439.jpg)

>>841247

>hating dragonball

holy shit what are you doing anon?


 No.841452

So disappointed hearing about this. I can never see Broly in a positive light since the scooby doo flick Bio-Broly. I'll still take my brothers to go see it in theaters though. Anyone watch the last two movies in theaters? BoG was the most hyped I've ever seen an audience for a movie.


 No.841456

>>841286

People only gave a shit about Broly because he had a super saiyan form that Goku and Vegeta could never achieve and it was definitely stronger. That is why Kale is shit. Still this isn't the lowest point in the series and people are right to mock OP.


 No.841466

>>841445

This image is just a deflection of any sort of criticism of a popular series.


 No.841471

File: 550c599cd6890db⋯.webm (2.94 MB, 320x240, 4:3, [ブロリー] カカロット詰め合わせ.webm)

>>841247

YES! I FUCKING CALLED IT AGAIN!

My Broly jokes seem to legitimately alter reality. It's incredible. This shit is hilarious. Now watch me make another Broly movie happen right after this one. Or maybe Broly can be a main character now. Actually, how about making Broly just beat the shit out of Kakarotto's purple cat friend?


 No.841472

>>841466

This. Just because a show is popular, it doesn't mean you can't criticize it.


 No.841474

>>841445

Dragonball stopped being good as soon as the original series ended. Everything from Z to current day has just been a terrible continuation of "Oh no somebody even stronger showed up out of nowhere!" to the point where they have entire universes showing up because of how fucking stupid it is that more and more powerful people keep showing up.


 No.841484

Reasons i don't like Broly:

1. His impetus for hating Kakarot. He is a baby how does he know who kakarot is. I get it, he has super haxor ki but how does he memorize people well enough by their NAME when they were only nearby for several days at MOST before separation with nobody evne saying Kakarots name by his crib. At least where he could hear.

2. Why does he hate Vegeta since Vegeta is just a dwarf of his dad? Does being a Manlet make you unrecognizable??

His character would be much better if his father had focues his entire rage towards the Vegeta family at least then it would have made sense.

3. A giant ball of unending rage that spouts one word isn't a compelling villain at all/


 No.841532

>>841321

Bio-Broly is the main arc villain or main movie villain defeated completely without Goku's help. He doesn't even show up in the ENTIRE FUCKING MOVIE until a meaningless scene a few seconds before the credits. Just that makes it stand out in my book. The fucker came back from the dead (for a few seconds) to help defeat Broly the second time, punched across goddamn dimensions to free Gohan from Bojack, but not this time. He doesn't lift a finger and yet the bad guy still gets killed (albeit mostly by seawater). It's the only time in the entire franchise that it looks like the universe really might be able to hold in its shit without Goku being there to save the fucking day every time.


 No.841754

>>841247

Saiyan in the movie isn't Broly, it's someone named after a cucumber from Dragon Ball Heroes and he is nicknamed "Evil Saiyan" because of his EDGY side, he is literally Darkness the Hedgehog if he was in DBZ universe, story revolves around a prison planet with alternate reality and Future Trunks Time Patrollers and all that stuff.

Post last edited at

 No.841798

So how long until Cell comes back?


 No.841847

>>841471

>Goku technically has shit genes.

>Other low cast sand lesbians would have looked like KAKAROTAAAHHH!

>Can't tell the difference between Goku or his son despite being younger since the "last time he saw him".

Fucking Broly would have gone off almost every other day if the planet didn't blow up, and if King Vegeta didn't already order his death. He was a liability waiting to happen.


 No.841893

File: 2cf43565e91535e⋯.jpg (119.96 KB, 1200x870, 40:29, fairy-tail-161316.jpg)

>>841247

Is Broly canon now? Broly isn't too bad. Bio-Broly was especially retarded though, but the saiyans were a pretty evil race.

>>841321

I can see your point. A movie without Goku saving the day in some way is nice. The ending just felt super anti-climatic to me.

>>841471

I'm guessing it's going to be a different alternate dimension Broly. That's the only way it can really work unless he's been in stasis for hundreds of years like Majin Buu was.

>>841484

His shtick was a bit annoying. I don't mind that Broly was such a simple villain, but he could be given a bit more to say than just Kakarot all of the time. I'm kinda hoping Broly gets a better backstory if they do go the alternate-dimension route. Make him a saiyan slayer or something. For example, saiyans in his universe got strong as fuck and reproduced in great numbers, which quickly led to them taking over. You could make him king of the saiyans as they attempt to take over u7 or some other universe that Goku and friends get called in to help.

>>841798

Cell was an oddball as he could get instant power ups whenever he needed them. Then Zumasu showed up and had the same ability with Goku black. Assuming he isn't too hard to animate, I could see Cell maybe returning some day. Frieza came back. The androids returned in various media. Majin Buu is still around. The only major villain really missing now from Z is Cell.


 No.841997

>>841847

>Low-class Saiyans all look like Goku

That was a retcon from after Broly was a thing, so doesn't really apply. It doesn't even make any fucking sense. Why would you clone a shitload of the WORST level of Saiyan?

>>841893

It's been mentioned before, but because Cell has actual Saiyan DNA in him, and Frieza's DNA, it's reasonable for him to be able to achieve Super Saiyan Blue and/or Golden Form without it being a total ass-pull. Give him both transformations at the same time, and he'd be more than a capable threat in the series right now.


 No.842000

MY SKIN IS COOOOOOOOOOLD!!!!!!


 No.842010

>>841997

>That was a retcon from after Broly was a thing

I seem to remember that being a plot point in Tree of Might, which was not only before Broly but also not canon.

Besides, if it were true how do we explain Raditz?


 No.842014

Does anyone have that yu yu hakusho meme that mocks power levels and shonen shit?


 No.842024

>>842000

TRANSFUSION WITH SOMEBODY, MOROSE AND OLD


 No.842170

>>841997

Is there anyone that can beat Cell? And I don't mean Perfect Cell. I'm not even talking about Super Perfect Cell.

I'm talking 100% Full Power Super Perfect Golden-Blue God Cell with mastered Ki and stamina control after spending a full year (our time) meditating in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and mastering Ultra Instinct while breaking his limits and fighting to protect his universe? Heh. I don't think so.


 No.842172

>>842170

I thought of a few more canon boosts he can pick up.

Maxxed out his zenkai boost.

Drank the sacred water.

Potential unlocked by Guru.

Anything else?


 No.842405

>>842172

How about mastering the Kaioken and absorbing all other namekians and unlocking Ultra Instinct after wishing for immortality with the Super Dragon Balls?


 No.842427

>>842405

There's not much more to be done at that point. Besides allowing him access to God of Destruction power.


 No.842440

File: aaf9b60d18ebd83⋯.jpg (180.15 KB, 426x568, 3:4, Card_1005600_bg.jpg)

>>842427

He could master some of the OG Dragonball techniques that scale outside of powerlevell like "The Look Away", "Stinking Finger", and "Mafuba".

Also, he can "Open his third eye", for all the good it does Tien.


 No.842450

>>842427

I know it's implied by being Perfect Cell, but you should include "after absorbing both Android 17 and Android 18" in order to help hit the [Wall of Text] threshold. Also, a magazine I had as a kid once referred to Perfect Cell as "Ultra Hansome Bishonen Cell". Since being good looking is an IRL superpower, I don't think this buff should be overlooked.


 No.842564

>>841452

First of all, Scooby-Doo is awesome and so is Bio-Broly. Also Bio-Broly isn't even Broly, he's Man-Thing.

I saw Battle of Gods in theatres but it only got released in North America long after the Japanese release so I imagine the biggest fans had already seen it. It was cool to see Dragon Ball on the big screen and the place was packed, but they acted mostly normal.

Resurrection F, on the other hand, was full of turboautists laughing hysterically at things that weren't funny, cheering like the audience of The Arsenio Hall Show whenever someone did a Kamehameha, and trying to chime in with jokes as if they think we're here to see their own version of MST3K. There was also an actual young kid who was trying desperately to explain Dragon Ball to his parents, getting autistic about things that weren't even relevant to the movie, like who Future Trunks is, but I can't fault the one actual kid at the Dragon Ball movie for acting like a kid, even if he was a little more annoying than most kids. The rest of the audience seemed like exactly the type of turboautist socially inept meganerds you'd expect to see at a showing of an anime movie. Which was quite disappointing since BoG's theatre experience instead felt like Dragon Ball was actually a legitimate movie for once. Of course BoG felt much more like an actual movie, while RF felt like another shit anime filler movie like the rest of the Dragon Ball movies.

>>841456

Broly's form never seemed like it was actually intended to be different in the movie. That all seemed like secondary sources saying that later, just to make him seem cooler even though he gets beaten by little kids in the sequels. Secondary sources like games and such constantly fuck up what is and isn't a different from, because then they can say they have 80 characters even though 10 of those are just Vegeta with different "forms."

>>841474

The manga is the original series, and it makes no distinction between before and after Raditz appears. Everything from Goku meeting Bulma to Goku meeting Uub is all the same series. At least if we're talking release order.

>>841484

Broly isn't a character, he's a plot device. He's a walking disaster. Same way Godzilla isn't a "character" in the first movie.

>>841893

>I'm guessing it's going to be a different alternate dimension Broly. That's the only way it can really work unless he's been in stasis for hundreds of years like Majin Buu was.

Best idea I've heard is that while the first Broly is the prophecized Legendary Super Saiyan born 1000 years after the Legendary Super Saiyan of Legend, this Broly is the original from 1000 years ago. They're both called Broly because due to destiny or whatever all Legendary Super Saiyans are called Broly.

Also, to be clear, since the actual movie isn't, Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan in that he's the actual one the prophecy foretold. Goku just happens to be a separate Super Saiyan who showed up independently around the same time. Yeah nevermind Broly is pretty shit.

>>842010

Yeah, Turles is the one that mentions it, and yes he's before Broly. You can say he's not canon, but if Broly's canon than Turles is canon. Obviously these movies reference each other. Gohan's Pet Dragon first appears in the Turles movie and then appears in other movies and filler later. So Turles' statement is canon to Broly. But his statement is that there are only a couple different kinds of low class saiyans, not that there's only one. Still, Broly would be going berserk every day.

>>842427

Technically, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 4, and Super Saiyan God are entirely different paths. Super Saiyan 2 is going Super Saiyan again when you're already Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 4 is going Super Saiyan when you're a Great Ape and retaining your consciousness. Super Saiyan God is a magic spell, but you can learn to harness the magic without the spell and if you become Super Saiyan while doing so that's Super Saiyan Blue. They never really explain what exactly Super Saiyan 3 is.

Theoretically you could have Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 Super Saiyan 4 Kaio-ken. And if we're talking Cell, you could have Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 Super Saiyan 4 Cell Dorado with Hakaishin Energy using Kaio-Ken xinfinity after drinking the Sacred Water and maxing out his zenkai boosts and having his potential unlocked by both Guru and Elder Kai and training inside Whis' scepter for infinity years.


 No.842758

File: d452a9614b09047⋯.jpg (55.91 KB, 424x600, 53:75, Izayoi.Sakuya.600.1000741.jpg)

File: 162fd132a3e8647⋯.jpg (137.39 KB, 625x825, 25:33, Izayoi.Sakuya.full.189892.jpg)

File: 8c949902cb3e34f⋯.jpg (21.99 KB, 333x362, 333:362, Majin_vegeta.jpg)

File: 26019dd885fe48a⋯.jpg (34.3 KB, 720x384, 15:8, Golden butts.jpg)

File: 2fc4444e1eac6e5⋯.png (36.38 KB, 200x200, 1:1, Fruit_Support.png)

Posting again since I really don't know what caused automaido. Was it the journey to the west picture?

>>842172

>Tree of might

>King Yemma's fruit

>Babadi magic buffs

Also, can Cell become a cyborg, or is he already a cyborg, his cells being made of pure namakian and freiza clan hacks probably makes it better then any robot parts. He didn't get anything robot parts from the two cyborg French orphans he absorbed.


 No.842766


 No.842767

File: 6e00ff7eadd1169⋯.jpg (207.17 KB, 700x525, 4:3, Nuclear fusion.jpg)

File: b47ad6e89434e41⋯.gif (97.61 KB, 173x265, 173:265, Tenshi's fruit.gif)

Actually, King Yemma's fruit is incredibly underutilized.

>2x physical attributes, 2x energy, don't need to eat or sleep for 3 months.

>Don't need to eat or sleep for three months.

>3 months worth of food and sleep.

Do you have unlimited energy for 3 months? You think Kind Yemma would have handed those out before a tournament that could erase all existence in that universe.


 No.842770

>>842766

Well it said my images was too hot for /a/ try flag ROD and leftyROD. didn't say anything about triple Parentheses.


 No.842861

File: 8b4cb4719981d45⋯.webm (518.51 KB, 640x364, 160:91, name puns.webm)

File: 74b6b63080284c4⋯.webm (114.42 KB, 640x364, 160:91, Thanks satan.webm)

>Bio Broly is a legitimate team effort.

>Has Trunks, Goten, 18 and Krillian actually doing things.

>Goku doesn't save the day, everyone else has to save the day themselves.

>Actually gives characterization to 18, Goten and Trunks.

>Actual believable level of danger.

>Goten wasn't at bottom for once ;_; .

>The Champ.

This movie was fun.


 No.842983

>>842861

The problem was broly being the worst part of that movie.


 No.843040

>>842564

>Broly's form never seemed like it was actually intended to be different in the movie

This is partially true.

What a lot of people mischaracterize as Broly's "special" kind of Super Saiyan is when he was first powering up and had a purple/green aura. That was not his own aura, though; that was the headband restraining-device thing that Paragus had put on him. Aside from the whited-out eyes (which has appeared at times in other characters) there's nothing special about Broly's Super Saiyan form; he's just stronger than everyone else. He IS the Legendary Super Saiyan. It's a title, not a transformation.

Then Movie 10 muddled this up by having him with BOTH a "normal" Super Saiyan form, and a buffed-out 'roid-rage version. But really, if you think about it that's just Ultra-Super-Saiyan, same thing Trunks used against Cell. Except Broly can both do that AND be really goddamn fast because of movie-villain-hax. But, again, there's nothing special about it.

>They never really explain what exactly Super Saiyan 3 is

Of course they do. Super Saiyan 3 is when you go

even

further—!

BEYOND!!!

>>842758

>can Cell become a cyborg, or is he already a cyborg

This is really a translation error; some of them aren't cyborgs or androids at all. The term in the original is jinzounigen, or "artificial human", which is a catchall. 17 and 18, aside from the bombs, don't seem to have any mechanical parts so aren't cyborgs. They also "disappear" when absorbed into Cell, as he gets holes blown in him and hey, you can't see them in there so he's got no mechanical parts either. 16 and 19 are fully mechanical, so are true androids. The only one that's clearly a cyborg is Gero/20 as he is an organic brain housed in a mechanical body.

>>842861

Fun fact: in the USA Movie 11 was the only DB movie rated high enough where I had to show ID (ie: be over 18) to buy the DVD, probably because of the scene where Trunks bends over and shows off his Dragonballs.


 No.843070

File: 1db038128ef92ed⋯.webm (16 MB, 640x364, 160:91, DbzBioBroly Pt2.webm)

>>843040

SS3 is like nitro, and it burns up a lot of energy quick, more so then 1 and 2. I think it technically was just a speed boost and didn't give a huge strength boost if it gave any aside from punches hurt more because they are faster, like they ever gave a good explanation for any of these so might as well be both, useful since he couldn't do Kaio-ken with SS forms. 1 was like an intro, congrats, you can turn it on, 2 was complete mastery and peak preformance, and 3 was overclocking the Hfil out of it.

>No robot parts.

Not even random circuit wires, or nano machines? How many PHDs did Gero have? Complete human with no draw backs. They have to have something for database records or scanners in their eyes or something.


 No.843182

>>843070

They never really come right out and explain to the audience what Super Saiyan 2 is, but if you're not a 10 year old who is only half paying attention, it's clearly supposed to be doing the Super Saiyan transformation again when you're already a Super Saiyan. Vegeta and Trunks focused on pure strength, trying to just get stronger until they get a new form. Goku and Gohan instead focus on making Super Saiyan feel natural to them. Then Gohan with his anger powers gets super angry which is also how Super Saiyan transformations happen for the first time. So he goes Super Saiyan again while already Super Saiyan. I suppose more accurately it would be Super Saiyan Squared.

>>843040

17 and 18 have some sort of biological engineering to them according to Super, which does fit well enough with what was there before. Android 8 also seems like a true cyborg, though, since he's clearly a guy who has been put back together with stitches and stuff.


 No.843219

File: d612ecacade0bc1⋯.png (245.94 KB, 811x436, 811:436, a1.png)

>>843182

They made imperfect SS2 show that you get this huge power boosts, but lose too much speed to make it useful ie the roid muscle imperfect version. I was under the impression that Gohan didn't get that much faster after getting true SS2, he just didn't get slower. Although higher power levels make you faster anyway so fuck it. So when ever SS3 shows up they Highlight feats of speed. What ever power boost it gives, it certainly gave a speed boost. Which fits Goku and Gotenks speed fin hairdo, and how their attacks style was more them fly by attcking and charging at max speed superman punch style. It was presenting speed. Which would spend a lot more energy.

but officially, its just another multiplier, which is kind of boring.


 No.843240

>>843219

Considering flying is just shooting ki in the opposite direction you want to move, gaining more power makes you faster. There's also reaction times but as the series goes on they stop pretending anything matters other than your level of Ki. Except with Ultra Instinct, which is about reaction and therefore should be about speed but they only focus on how it makes you stronger.

What Vegeta and Trunks did was just get marginally stronger but focus most of their training on merely moving their energy into stronger blows, rather than using it to be a balanced fighter. They tried to min/max the power they had as a Super Saiyan, figuring that getting one stat high enough would make them level up. Goku was trying to figure out how to actually come up with a new transformation, and came up with a clever way to do it.


 No.844203

>>842024

DROP INTO FRUITLESS DYING


 No.844329

They better bring Kale in for this one if its going full fan service. Literally the 'now neither of us need to be virgins!' scenario.


 No.844384

>>844329

>Broly's fury is soothed through aggressive snusnu


 No.844419

File: 55bc5d7e2b1782a⋯.jpg (208.89 KB, 731x1200, 731:1200, DhskRwDUcAA6rOk.jpg)

>>841893

A Broly is going to be canon in the film, but he won't be the same Broly from the original film trilogy. This Broly will keep his "classic image", but will have a "new side" to his character, resulting in a "more fascinating Broly". In fact, the entire movie is "very large-scale and dramatic" and features the Freeza Force while going into the history of the Saiyans, hinting that Broly might have some significant connection to Saiyan history.


 No.844423

Anybody got the webms one anon posted a while ago? I remember two of them, one being from when Yamucha fought Tenshinhan with the Rogafufuken insert song playing, and the other was the Goku v Kulilin fight


 No.844502

>>844419

So the prophesy where the Legendary Super Saiyan rapes Frieza to death, finally comes to pass? Will a pair of blue midgets have to snap their fingers at him?


 No.844512

File: 25aa8d975472e1f⋯.png (349.47 KB, 415x506, 415:506, Trunks_Goten_Cell_Jr.png)

File: a30dbc730bbdeb5⋯.jpg (22.5 KB, 326x245, 326:245, broly.jpg)

File: 617d280d4ed237a⋯.jpg (119.08 KB, 1600x900, 16:9, 123.jpg)

File: 5bc03627a7a885c⋯.png (486.29 KB, 672x467, 672:467, Dragon-Ball-Super-Movie-Br….png)

>>841798

Cell came back in the DBS comic. There are 7 of him on Monster Island with Android 17. Cell Juniors, anyway.

The Broly figurine seems to be wearing Frieza Force armor. Maybe he takes it off someone, maybe he's working for Frieza, willingly or under duress.


 No.844516

File: 35a0d36752d4831⋯.jpg (250.33 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, paragus.jpg)

New Paragus is apparently Broly's grandfather and still has a tail. Could be a mis-translation.


 No.844530

I just realized that they're going to change his transformation to be like Kales. Instead of his Legendary form exploding from his body his muscles are just going to get bigger.

That sucks.


 No.844672

>>841452

I hate seeing anime in theaters because the crowd always cheers and laughs at inappropriate moments.


 No.844679

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Here we go!

The animation style looks nice.


 No.844682

File: bf8601a5fcbbf1a⋯.png (1001.64 KB, 1418x791, 1418:791, Untitled-1.png)

We back to cell games animation.


 No.844685

>>844679

What is this dub?


 No.844702

>>844685

English. Not sure where to find the Japanese one.


 No.844710

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>844702

On Toei's YouTube channel ya dummy

Here ya go


 No.844712

>>844710

Cheers.


 No.844713

>>844710

Surprised there's no insert song here though.


 No.844715

>>844679

>>844710

This movie is starting to look like the best thing that's come out of Dragon Ball Super so far. The animation looks fantastic, and not like in the shows where it's "fantastic" compared to the okay-at-best normal animation of most scenes, it looks legitimately impressive as a 2D animated film.


 No.844728

As much as I hate how Broly's going to be in it, I'm still going to see this movie


 No.844729

>>844728

I'm not a fan of Broly being in it either, but it looks like his backstory has been completely reworked, so at least now it wont be mind-numbingly retarded like in the original film.


 No.844732

>>844679

They got rid of his bling. I'm sad now.


 No.844733

File: f0fba7572f84325⋯.jpg (97.65 KB, 800x732, 200:183, 33ae884dc473807a2fcd0ea641….jpg)

>>844710

Not big on Broly as a character, but this movie does look like it will be fun and it has good animation. Could be better than super as a whole even.


 No.844738

File: cdc7c556c50c374⋯.png (1.48 MB, 1292x733, 1292:733, Looks like the animation b….png)

File: e97d9487792dacc⋯.png (1.22 MB, 1286x728, 643:364, Fuck I really hope that th….png)

File: 9ac78544d174b8a⋯.png (799.9 KB, 1286x726, 643:363, EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKS SO G….png)

Guys I really don't wanna be the one to rain on everyone's parade but it looks like the animation was a little too ambitious for the budget. I knew Toei would find a way to fuck this up somehow.


 No.844741

File: 82e549bc6a3481e⋯.gif (845.33 KB, 353x339, 353:339, Push ups, sit ups, and ple….gif)

>>844512

>Cell came back in the DBS comic

What the fuck? I need to keep up with this shit more.


 No.844744

>>844741

Cell juniors that survived the Cell games. They regenerated after getting stomped by Gohan and slipped away while everyone was focused on Cell. They listen to Android 18 for some reason and help him guard the Island. Heard about it, didn't read it. Not sure if they're waiting to grow up so they can try for round 2, or if they're just imperfect clones of Cell.


 No.844784

>>844744

>They listen to Android 18 for some reason

17.


 No.844795

File: 313464fa75336fd⋯.png (270.31 KB, 570x430, 57:43, lust for life.png)

>>844710

It looks good. Story could be horseshit for all we know, but the action and animation look fucking fantastic, and that's what most of us still watching Dragon Ball in 2018 are here for.


 No.844806

>>844516

>New Paragus is Broly's grandfather

>Broly is just the name they give the legendary super sands

>Who was Broly's father? A demon, the devil? No it was Broly, but the old one.

Paragus didn't live, but details.


 No.844820

>>844803

They did the exact same thing with Resurrection F.


 No.844838

>>844806

There was an interview with Toriyama. Not sure if he said Paragus was Broly's father or grandfather. He's doing his own take on the Broly story. Or at least he's letting his name be put on the canon Broly story for a fat stack of yen.

Maybe Broly is named after some legendary super Saiyan. Piccolo was named after Piccolo. Gohan was named after Gohan. Vegeta was named after Vegeta who was named after Vegeta. There are a bunch of juniors running around DB. I'm surprised Goku doesn't have 50 brothers and sisters all named Goku, considering how many fucks Saiyans give about their offspring.


 No.844869

>>844803

Hopefully it's just a placeholder for the proper scene. It would be really disappointing to see an awkward transition to 3D partway through after the incredible animation shown before.


 No.844873

>>844838

>for a fat stack of yen.

What is it about getting old that makes people want to collect money? Aren't they going to die soon anyway?


 No.844991

>>844838

Best case scenario, Broly is named after the original Legendary Super Saiyan, the one from 1000 years ago. Every 1000 years another one is born and they all happen to be called Broly. Goku was just a regular Super Saiyan who happened to appear around the same time, but Broly was the actual one prophecized in the legend.


 No.844993

File: 65ee8ff6bbb1053⋯.png (348.07 KB, 454x594, 227:297, BE GENTLE.png)

Toei being Toei. Shareholder value draws its power from the hype. It's shekel-extraction-time, again.


 No.844995

>>844679

That fucking dialogue reads like some anon reading off a nightmare he had in greentext format just like the touhou one.


 No.844996

>>844710

>>844733

The only way this can turn out well is if Broly kills them and becomes the new main character and the series ends with him powering up at a stupid fast rate until he beats up literally everyone and the final scene is him punching us through our computer screens.


 No.845070

>>844996

Well that's the thing isn't it? If the series continues after the film like they claim, Broly will either die in this movie or have to be present to some degree. You can't ignore a guy so strong that he shitstomps everyone in the universe without any magical powerups or anything.


 No.845202

>>845070

It's not like Hit was very relevant after he was the strongest guy ever. And I bet Jiren won't be very relevant even though it took Goku, Frieza, and 17 to beat him.


 No.845208

>>845202

That doesn't count, literally every single villain in the series was 'Strongest guy ever'


 No.845209

>>845208

But Broly. Broly is ultimate.


 No.845215

File: 1be830966d33d45⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 239.32 KB, 800x1200, 2:3, 0038-036.png.jpg)

File: c4eea53cc8ffca0⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 257.64 KB, 800x1200, 2:3, 0038-039.png.jpg)

File: f71d0d5e300de9b⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 285.58 KB, 800x1200, 2:3, 0038-040.png.jpg)

File: 0697dbf2022185e⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 277.34 KB, 800x1200, 2:3, 0038-044.png.jpg)

File: f90d710a0beb8b5⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 147.45 KB, 800x1200, 2:3, 0038-045.png.jpg)

Guess who's back bitches.

Time for GODHAN to finally shine.


 No.845231

>>844512

>>844744

Just read Chapter 38. This didn't happen. Are previews from 39 out before 38's release? Where is that image from?


 No.845722

>>845231

It's one of Toyo's specials he does every once in a while. They just exist to explain some inconsistencies, like how Mai is the same age as Trunks in the Future timeline.


 No.845744

>>845215

Gohan really should be the protagonist at this point. He's a more interesting character in general.


 No.845905

>>845215

Can someone tell me why this tracksuit kid suddenly has the audacity to challenge a supreme fusion partially made up of someone who was mopping the floor with Frieza and also half the god damn tournament entrants?

Need he be reminded that base form Frieza one shot his ass a few months ago? I know a week with Piccolo isn't enough to achieve god status.


 No.845909

>>845905

Still better than Goku and Vegeta combined though.


 No.846037

>>845905

>A week of training isn't enough to achieve godlike power

Do you know what series you're watching??


 No.846049

>>846037

I don't know which is the biggest asspull, the time Goku did so many pushups on his way to Namek that he was able to read minds, which he only did once and never mentioned again, or how Frieza caught up to over a hundred episodes of Goku training by simply thinking about it. Though I guess the second one had precedent since Hit had already shown the power to literally become better in a fight simply by wanting to be.


 No.846066

>>846049

>Hit had already shown the power to literally become better in a fight simply by wanting to be

Was this before or after Goku was able to become faster than stopped time simply by wanting it?


 No.846133

>>846049

I can at least appreciate that the mind reading bit was just an excuse to skip them explaining everything so Goku could just show up and get into the fight. It was dumb, but it was anti-filler.


 No.846359

>>846133

It's not like it would have taken very long. It's not like it was even needed. When has Goku ever required an explanation as to what was going on, in order to be motivated to fight? All Krillin had to do was say, "Those jerks beat us up, and they're REALLY STRONG!" and Goku's fightboner would have been at maximum. For fuck's sake, since it wasn't anything the reader needed to know, the explanation could have just been off-paneled. Happens all the damn time in anime: cut to or fade to black, it returns, the character says something like "so that's how it is..." or "now I understand..." and shit moves on. Toriyama just went full-retard for a second.


 No.846594

>>845215

DBS is already beyond point of unfucking; but at least, they aren't wasting Goku's time fighting fodder.

Reading the comment section of a youtube video about Vegeta driving home after taking Bulla shopping reminded me how retarded the average DBS fan was. They couldn't wrap their head around the idea that Toriyama forgot that Bulla was older than Pan in DBZ and DBGT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9alLKtLrQE


 No.846707

File: d69217ab4842772⋯.png (335.08 KB, 608x456, 4:3, Android18DefeatsVegeta.png)

>>846049

I don't know anon. I thought it was an asspull when a scientist in a cave using scraps around somehow had the right resources to create 2 Cyborgs (used to be basic bitch humans), an Android, and a Bioweapon in the course of a year-ish that can bend legendary, once in a 10,000 years, beings like a pretzel.


 No.846708

>>846707

Dr. Gero is just that good, I don't know what to tell you man, Goku and Vegeta may be legendary once in 10,000 years beings. But Dr. Gero is a legendary once in 10,000,000 years genius


 No.846786

>>846707

>in the course of a year-ish

But Android 8 was built like 20 years earlier and we have no reason to think he ever stopped working on these things. He had tons of time, and three years since he last got any important data. Also Cell takes like 18 years longer to actually finish.

>>846708

But Bulma is way smarter than him. Plus that other guy from the Jaco manga who also built a time machine.


 No.846828

>>846786

Cell being a time traveller is something I always forget.


 No.846874

>>846786

>Bulma is way smarter than him

Bulma doesn't build artificial humans; the best she managed was repairing a hole in 16's head using Gero's blueprints and daddy's help. Her skill set and knowledge is completely different than Gero's, hence why she could build a time machine and he couldn't (or he just chose not to, who knows). You can't compare them; it would be like comparing the intelligence of a physicist and a physician.

Although, for all the things it royally fucked up, you could say Bulma's choice to build it in the first place was pretty damn stupid.


 No.846879

File: a412567080e6906⋯.png (1.04 MB, 905x661, 905:661, 1.png)

Goku's expression seemed cool to me but now it gives me cringe, I guess I've become weird.


 No.847035

>>846874

>Although, for all the things it royally fucked up, you could say Bulma's choice to build it in the first place was pretty damn stupid.

Without Bulma's time machine her timeline's androids would have never been defeated, and the same thing would have happened in the main timeline. Her timeline did end up destroyed eventually, but Zamas seems like the type of dick who would have eventually been a dick no matter what. His true motivation is that Goku was stronger than him, and without Goku being stronger than him the universe would have been destroyed many times over, so fuck it.


 No.847293

File: 986efde37f5df08⋯.jpg (11.45 KB, 240x240, 1:1, Cell's Mother.jpg)

>>846786

Oh come on anon. There is no stated date and time Dr. Gero created android 17 and 18. Also Dr. Gero's resources were factually just Earth based so whatever he made the androids from had enough durability to face a super saiyan with ease. Than Dr. Gero was stuck with whatever he can find around his cave, so Dr. Gero tonystarked, i.e. cave scraps, essentially Ultron 4 times with different Ultron strengths.

Than there is the issue with cell. I am not calling realistic bullshit like incompatibility, that is just dumb for a nit pick. What I will say is how Dr. Gero was able to mash different genetics in a year, keep them stable, and grow into a super being eventually. Here is a topic to discuss though for anons of Dragon ball.

Who's egg was it that was used to create Cell? If cell had a fetus stage, means he had to come from a woman for sure. So the only woman who was available to Dr. Gero and Dragon Ball lore says her eggs were still functional was Android 18. Also, androids cannot be sensed by their energy so there is no way to disprove Android 18 being cells mother.


 No.847339

>>847293

"Durability" is meaningless in Dragonball. 17 and 18 are organic beings just like the Saiyans, and can survive being pummeled with planet-destroying punches in the exact same way: by using their ki (or the invisible android equivalent) to form a defensive shield.


 No.847356

>>847339

Still related to durability anon. Gero would have to have access to resources to create the device that creates Android "ki" that can withstand blows from a Super Saiyan as if it was nothing. If ki was the same for everyone than videl could also create ki to take a blow from a super saiyan.

Also there is the DB lore of improved/trained body to improve ki. So all is still related to a durable material to withstand super saiyan attacks and dish it out as well.


 No.847368

>>847356

It's stated that your ki improves by training both the body and mind, if Android 17 and 18's bodies were cybernetically enhanced significantly, it would also have an effect on their mind increasing their ki. Clearly Gero was aware of ki or "energy" which is why he designed his own body and the body of 19 to be ki absorbing. It's obvious that he figured out a way to mechanically store or produce ki. Which is something he obviously stumbled upon when creating the cyborgs 17 and 18 considering that 16 didn't have any ki powers whatsoever. So 17 and 18 are able to produce their own natural ki and that may also be mechanically enhanced which is what makes them so powerful. As for Cell, why would he need an egg to be created? Gero figured out a way to mix the genetic code of a bunch of vastly different species and races and mixed and matched. He wouldn't need an egg from a woman if that's the case, it's all just synthetic.


 No.847408

>>847368

The idea of cloning still needs donated human eggs or some kind of pseudo embryo. Considering Dr. Gero has no ethical standards and uses whatever is lying around I doubt Gero will hesitate to take one of Android 18 eggs. Since Cell is considered a clone of multiple fighters with his energy readings being the same as the originals it would make sense for cell to be created using a human egg as well.


 No.847410

File: 9872612ed794bde⋯.jpg (74.08 KB, 640x480, 4:3, slump.jpg)

File: 661ca88a59f75c2⋯.jpg (41.97 KB, 970x640, 97:64, arale_super.jpg)

>>846786

>>846708

>>846707

If there was one thing I can appreciate from Dragon Ball, its that the science team was just on the ball as power levels. Giving some sort of balance to the setting. If a scientist has enough bullshititium, he too can make a gun that takes out a god. As if raw power could compare to the physic defying capsule tech or a god damn time travel machine.


 No.847417

>>847408

Yeah I understand, but I was saying that cell may not have been cloned so much as synthetically constructed with his initial mass cultivated in some petri dish


 No.847418

File: 2cbf3b3bb18a5e7⋯.gif (1.03 MB, 400x444, 100:111, 2cbf3b3bb18a5e7f8a77ca9d41….gif)

>>847417

I agree that something like that happened. We all tend to just dismiss a lot in dragon ball as science magic. I just had a random thought about how cloning worked and wondered where the potential egg for it came from. From which the only female around was Android 18.

Like how everyone just jumped into Piccolo being the "father" of Gohan while ignoring that Goku spent 5 years with Gohan before Piccolo spent 1 year. But whatever, teacher/student bonding and such.


 No.847440

>>847410

In a way, it's like "science" in some old superhero comic.


 No.847455

>>847418

Well Piccolo is the closest thing that Gohan has to a father figure for the 7 years when Goku died after the Cell Saga, I don't know how much contact he has with Gohan considering Gohan turned into a little bitch but that one I understand somewhat. But I do agree saying he's more of a dad to Goku than Gohan is overstating it massively


 No.847494

>>846049

>or how Frieza caught up to over a hundred episodes of Goku training by simply thinking about it

I'm ok with that one, honestly. They stated during the first Golden Frieza fight that he might have won if he'd continued training, but he rushed to get his revenge right after attaining his golden form without being able to fully control it. Kinda similar to Ginyu in Goku's body.


 No.847583

File: 85856efe7cf0b5f⋯.png (126.84 KB, 616x785, 616:785, Helicopter Parent.png)

File: ccb35db95dd287e⋯.png (184.83 KB, 616x785, 616:785, Helicopter Child.png)

>>847455

I'd prefer if Chi-Chi being a terrible mother, i.e. helicopter mom, took up more steam than Goku being a terrible dad. There are lots of damaging psychological and personality disorders Gohan shows throughout Z that proves this. But you know it is easier to pic on the father figure than the mother figure because feminism.


 No.847724

>>847410

Do you think Goku is stronger than Arale yet? They really should have invited her to the Universe 6 tournament and the Tournament of Power since she was clearly the strongest being in the universe barring Beerus and Whis. Imagine if she ever had a training montage, or if she just thought about being stronger like Frieza and Hit. And don't give me that no robots rule because there were tons of robots in the Tournament of Power.

Also, Senbei invented a miracle machine and they should be using that to just wish Super Dragon Balls into existence whenever there is a problem. Also now that I'm thinking about it he has a time machine too. They really need to call him up when they could use some help.

>>847418

Goku is gone for like two and a half years straight starting from when Gohan is only 4. And kids don't remember much from before they were 4 so that's pretty significant. He's around when fighting Vegeta and Frieza (which both last about five minutes each), and like a week he's in the hospital after fighting Vegeta, but that's barely any time at all. After that he does raise Gohan for three more years, but it's all offscreen. Then he's sick for a bit but he does eventually spend a year with Gohan in the Room of Spirit and Time. Then he dies. The issue is, all of this is offscreen. Though to be fair, the time Gohan spends with Piccolo is off-panel in the manga, too, but the filler arc in the anime is actually good. Doing some more filler showing Goku actually being a dad would have went a long way.

>>847583

But Chi Chi became a good mom after Goku died. You could say it's her earlier mistakes with Gohan that made him turn out like he did, but she learned eventually, and wasn't pushing Gohan to be a nerd during the seven years in which he became a nerd. She trained Goten so well that she helped him become a six year old Super Saiyan.


 No.847731

>>847583

I agree, Chi-chi is a bad mom. I wouldn't say Goku is exactly a bad dad though. He tried to do what was best for his family. The first time he died he did it doing the only thing he could to protect them from Raditz and then when he died again he did it saving everyone again. And his entire decision to stay dead was so that no one else came after them and put them in danger again in case that he couldn't defeat them. When he saw that even without him even stronger beings appeared he gladly came back to life and stayed alive and did whatever he could to get stronger to protect them.

But you're right, Chi-chi is a bad mom, her overbearing helicopter parenting caused Gohan, a person who defeated Cell as a child to become a giant neurotic bitch. This anon is right though >>847724 Chi-chi did become a better mom after Goku died, so at least she realized her mistakes and tried to do better with Goten. But then again Gohan did become a successful happy person but he could have literally been nothing but a fighter like Goku and still done that considering he married Videl


 No.847733

>>847724

All his time machine needs is a slippery surface.


 No.847755

>>847731

If DBO is anything close to canon, then Gohan is the one who breaks Ki down into a science and makes it accessible to the masses, which would be due to Chi Chi's influence. In that sense, she ended up being a positive influence in the long run.

Also, Gohan had the potential for raw power, but he never showed Goku's uncanny ability to learn and develop martial arts skill. He just had anger problems that helped him unlock Super Saiyan 2 once Goku figured it out for him. In a sense, it makes sense for Goku to be better long term, despite Gohan's talent.


 No.847770

>>847731

Didn't Gohan become the only character to gain a sense of justice and use his extreme martial skill to go off and stop crimes, rather than just autistically working out or wanking it in the forest? If anything Gohan grew up to be a pretty reasonable guy.


 No.847774

>>847770

Krillin became a cop, so he did the same, only he got paid for it too.

Does Gohan even continue being Saiyaman on a regular basis after Buu shows up? I know he was a bit in Super but that seemed more like a one off reappearance rather than something he regularly does. I want to see a future where Krillin is the Commissioner Gordon to Gohan's Batman. Plus Future Trunks becomes a timecop so that's pretty much the same thing.

Also, Tien started his own dojo, so while he's not a superhero he's at least trying to spread good messages.


 No.847784

>>847774

The Krillin being a cop thing always struck me as weird. Even being so far beneath the Saiyans and Gods of the universe, he's clearly at planet-buster power levels, capable of moving at speeds that exceed that which the human eye can even detect, much less track. There is no crime he couldn't instantly defuse just by running around and knocking out everyone in a fraction of a second. Yet, even still, there always seems to be some bizarre "masquerade" going on where their existence as superhumans is kept under wraps from the general public. They all still believe Satan is the strongest in the world, for fuck's sake. How does Krillin work as a cop and acting "normal", knowing he could be doing so much more? He's probably seen people die, knowing he could have prevented it. It's like a master carpenter watching some poor shmoes trying to build a treehouse, and failing miserably, and offering no more help than pounding in a few nails for them; and the whole time he's in full awareness that the treehouse will end up so shitty that it will almost certainly collapse, probably while some kids are in it.


 No.847790

>>847784

> How does Krillin work as a cop and acting "normal", knowing he could be doing so much more?

He's usually around when world-ending bullshit happens, but that's once every few years. He's one of the only people who actually shows a determination to do good in the world when it doesn't involve saving your their own ass. What else could Krillin do with his abilities? Ship industrial amounts of food to starving nations for free?


 No.847791

>>847784

I agree, Krillin is so far beyond the rest of humanity that it's not even funny, that's why the who would win Superman or Goku arguments always seemed stupid to me when by the end of DBZ even Krillin could probably give superman a run for his money. Not even considering stupid power level speculations you're right Krillin is easily planet destroying strong considering Vegeta destroyed that bug planet at the beginning of DBZ and Krillin by the time of Super is orders of magnitude stronger than that.

But yeah it's strange why he chose to be a cop if he's trying to hide his true power. But he also seems to work alone, I assume he's fast enough that if he witnessed any deadly crimes or accidents about to happen he could easily stop them without the other people even realizing. Krillin doesn't seem the type to just let people die so he doesn't blow his cover. Krillin seems to have the strongest sense of justice out of anyway though so it makes sense why he'd choose a cop. Also if he's just pursuing someone on foot or something he doesn't need all of his speed and power to apprehend them he just needs to be a little bit faster and a little more agile to catch up to anyone, which he can easily do.


 No.847801

File: 0a70dbf73abe5f5⋯.jpg (52.73 KB, 720x540, 4:3, beisuboru.jpg)

>>847774

>>847784

>>847790

>>847791

Even if filler (i think) what about Yamcha being the legendary, beyond GOTY-tier baseball player?

At some point he could be richer than Mr. Satan due to the stratospheric wages and publicity contracts, not to mention one of the most sought-after bachelors in the world


 No.847805

File: c5db9e41af07814⋯.png (417.08 KB, 740x416, 185:104, ClipboardImage.png)

>>847801

Well he was shown to hold the manager hostage by demanding bonuses to be a pinch hitter. It's obvious that he's laying somewhat low as well. I don't know the extent of his career but it seems that at least his coach/manager knows his true skills considering he was willing to pay give in to Yamcha's demands just to win the game for them


 No.847808

>>847805

>pinch hitter

>who pulls absurd plays, both as pitcher and hitter, time and time again

(Real) fans can recognize when someone is over the top, and almost always pay their tributes for it

And baseball is overrated in both universes, so his fame would still be quite big.

Still, both of our pics are non-canon


 No.847809

>>847808

Maybe he intentionally flubs a few during regular play to keep his batting average down so he's just a middle of the road player who his manager knows to call on when the chips are really down. Maybe he would be known for pulling off clutch plays but really not that many people would pay attention to him if he intentionally makes himself a middling player.

Why isn't your pic cannon?


 No.847815

>>847809

As far as i know the baseball part is non-canon, being exclusive to the series

But at this point anything goes in this wretched franchise


 No.847825

>>847801

Think about how obscenely good Lebron James and Michael Jordan are/were at basketball. You can be way the fuck better than everyone else in the sport while still being within the realm of human limits. And the Z Fighters wouldn't have to actually be within normal people standards, it just has to look like they are. Yamcha could hit home runs nonstop, but he could also hit the ball just hard enough that it doesn't get a home run. How fast would he have to run to make it around the bases? Those bases are designed for normal people to take their time running around. If Yamcha casually strolled around at 15% faster than other players, it wouldn't look ridiculous, it'd look pretty fast. He could play at absolute top physical level of a person trying their absolute hardest, but he could do it all game nonstop because for him it'd be a casual workout.


 No.847919

>>847784

Krillin does use his abilities in the little bits we see him act as a cop, though. Yes, he could always do more, but then that goes for Gohan too, and anyone else with a sense of justice. This isn't addressed in Dragon Ball, but there are plenty of Superman stories about this, where they basically say that in the end he still has the mind of a human and can't function properly without something resembling a regular life. Krillin and Gohan just want to go home and raise their families, and while they'll use their abilities to help when they can, they would drive themselves crazy if they tried to stop all suffering anywhere. They could do more, but it would never be enough, and eventually they'd just burn themselves out.

That said, there are also a lot of superhero stories where at some point in the future after their loved ones die, characters like Superman and Flash do eventually dedicate all of their time to heroism, and basically become invisible (since they're so fast) forces of nature that make their territories perfectly safe. But that's only because they've lost their families and much of their humanity, essentially ascending to godhood. Which I suppose would be equivalent to what Kami could have been doing since he was much stronger than anyone else on Earth until Piccolo Jr. surpassed him, but he wasn't doing that either even though it was his job. That's why there are also stories about characters like Superman trying to solve more complex problems like starvation and poverty, and realizing that strength and skill can't provide long term solutions to issues that ultimately come down to humanity needing to simply learn to stop being bad. So what >>847790 proposes wouldn't work anyway.

>>847791

Dude Superman has survived the Big Bang on at least two separate occasions, and has repeatedly defeated villains who are literally things like corrupt editors of his own comic, sucking the life force (money and happiness) of the readers. He saves fights abstract concepts like cynicism and saves the real world all the time, not to mention things like destroying galaxies when he sneezes. I've seen no anime that comes close to the level of bullshit that DC Comics pull. It makes The End of Evangeleon look like, well, Dragon Ball Z.


 No.847921

>>847815

Who is to say what is canon to Super? Is the manga more canon? It clearly intends you to also watch the anime. Hell, Resurrection F happens off panel. You could read the separate manga adaptation for that, but it only adapts the first half and then tells you to watch the movie. But the part of the movie that is adapted is slightly different in the manga, so which is canon? Only the second half of the movie? Or is the manga that tells you to watch the movie itself not canon? Even the rest of the manga seems to expect you to watch the anime, and the Super anime clearly counts filler from the previous anime series as canon. I think at this point if you're talking about Super, the only reasonable thing to do is count everything as canon. Is Super Dragon Ball Heroes really that much dumber than the rest of Dragon Ball Super? At least Golden Cooler is ridiculous enough that it's kind of fun.

>>847801

I have to figure Yamcha is just such a fuckup that he ruined his career by just being a dick to the managers and owners, or pissing off fans somehow. He seems like the type of guy to not show up to practices and miss games because he was hungover or something. Like yeah he's still an absolute guaranteed win whenever he plays, but that's only worth so much money to whoever is supposed to be paying him.

Why he's not just usurping Mr. Satan and living off of tournament wins though, I don't know. I guess because then Vegeta would probably start entering tournaments again just to spite him.


 No.847933

File: a803232adc2f2af⋯.jpg (28.54 KB, 388x532, 97:133, a803232adc2f2afaeaab44ef0b….jpg)

>>847921

>because then Vegeta would probably start entering tournaments again just to spite him.


 No.847941

File: 2dbe8e661a2c78e⋯.png (22.91 KB, 1010x600, 101:60, Identity Crisis.png)

>>847770

>>847774

>>847755

That is a nice way to explain identity crisis. Could Gohan go out there and save people, sure why not? Why did her wear the costume, more specifically why did he hide his face? Who was he trying to hide from? Was it the common folk? Gohan doesn't need to do anything beyond basic peak human abilities considering the city was used to Videl stopping crime with her talents. Gohan was trying to hide from his mother, Chi-Chi. Chi-Chi wanted Gohan to be as average as possible with only ever excelling at STEM.

Also something people forget, Videl fell in love with Gohan the warrior, not Gohan the bookworm. Super gave you a hint at this fact during those Great Saiyaman episodes. Than their child Pan, of whom Videl nor Gohan stop from training with Goku.


 No.847969

>>847919

I shouldn't have brought up superman, I've only heard of stories where he's at max planet destroying tier. But that's a conversation for /co/

>>847941

>Also something people forget, Videl fell in love with Gohan the warrior, not Gohan the bookworm.

That's what I was saying, Gohan would have had a good life even if he just trained and fought all day because Videl's money could support them. But also Chi-Chi did learn and change as a mother as well with Goten.

But all that aside, they're still just people it's not an identity crisis to not constantly be doing humanitarian work in the form of unpaid heroics.


 No.848024

>>847790

>Ship industrial amounts of food to starving nations for free

He should almost certainly be spinning a giant turbine as fast as possible to supply cheap energy for the world.

>>847809

>>847825

He would work best as a closing pitcher. Then he could be throwing 110mph fastballs and putting absurd spin and shit on other pitches using ki to manipulate the path of the ball, and it wouldn't seem that odd. Oh sure, he'd be the BEST closer of all time, but it wouldn't seem odd. See, even ordinary humans can pull off nigh-superhuman feats, but only for short lengths of time. That's why IRL closers can only sustain that absurd strain on the body for a single half-inning. It would only be when Yamcha starts playing at a high level through the entire game, that people would start seriously quirking eyebrows and becoming suspect. Except people wouldn't think he's superhuman; they would suspect things like steroids, or the other team being paid to throw the game, or the umpire being a sham, stuff like that.


 No.848057

>>847941

I could have sworn Gohan mentioned getting the costume because he didn't want regular people to notice him, not that he was scared of Chi Chi. Bulma mentioned that he was in fact seen at the Cell Games, even if Mr. Satan ultimately got credit, and they wouldn't want anyone making a connection between that kid at the Cell Games and the kid going to high school. Either way it's dumb because the whole world saw Goku stop The Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., and the Saiyans, yet they still forgot him immediately. And he didn't have Mr. Satan stealing his credit back then.

>>848024

This raises the question of where the Z fighters get their energy from. Superman spinning a turbine works because his energy comes from the sun, but I'm pretty sure the Z fighters all just eat food, which comes from the earth, so using that same energy to power the earth wouldn't be nearly as efficient as Superman. Though 17 and 18 have eternal batteries that can output at rates many multitudes higher than Frieza, the emperor of the Galaxy, and with training 17 became nearly as strong as Gods of Destruction, using that same battery. So 17 and 18 should be powering the universe with their batteries.

Also, really there's no reason Yamcha would even have to hide his abilities. He and Krillin are not at all superhuman. They have no abilities that a regular human could not have if they trained as well as those two. Everyone saw them doing feats that the average person couldn't comprehend at the Tenkaichi Budokai several times, and nobody cares. They're impressed, but then perfectly willing to accept that Mr. Satan is actually better than them because he can rip some phonebooks in half or whatever.

>>847825

>Think about how obscenely good Lebron James and Michael Jordan are/were at basketball.

You raise a good point. Like Michael Jordan, Yamcha probably got secretly kicked out of the league for betting on his own games. He never really changed from that desert bandit he was at the start. You can take the nigga out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the nigga.


 No.848073

>>848057

>This raises the question of where the Z fighters get their energy from.

Are you not familiar with Dragon ball at all or something? It's Ki which is a spiritual force that comes from the mental and physical fortitude of a person.


 No.848076

>>848073

He means the physical energy requirements. He's thinking about it in a conservation of matter sense, as the Energy In does not equal the Energy Out. But he's retarded for asking the question.


 No.848077

>>848073

Yes they use Ki but the Ki comes from somewhere. It's just their life force. They still run on chemical energy from food.


 No.848078

>>848076

Excuse me for being autistic on a chinese cartoon imageboard.


 No.848098

>>848076

Well yes I understand his question but it's retarded because of the metaphysical bullshit involved.

>>848077

Ki comes from the soul, the soul is powered by the energy of otherworld. Better? Their bodies still need to operate through normal processes but Ki channeling costs next to nothing because the energy doesn't come from the physical universe.


 No.848147

File: 3c1e7f1996ab5f9⋯.png (469.45 KB, 660x450, 22:15, dbz the finger.png)

>>847770

Future Trunks used his power to protect his broken world, without caring about gay shit like fighting strong opponents or giving the enemy a sporting chance.

I think the only time Future Trunks ever screwed around was when he let King Cold handle his sword, and that can be chalked up to Toriyama not knowing for certain how he was going to flesh out the new character.


 No.848161

>>848147

Trunks was probably on a super saiyan high with the Frieza situation. Guy finally gets to fight someone he knows for sure he's stronger than and completely stomps them after getting his ass beat by the Androids constantly.


 No.848212

>>848098

If that were the case they would never need to work out. Ki is clearly physical strength and not simply spiritual. It is spiritual in that their spirit powers their bodies but the strength of their bodies is what it comes down to. Otherwise you'd have people who were physically weak but were good with Ki because they meditate well or something.


 No.848387

>>848076

I'm not mathematically inclined enough to calculate this, but given at least what I know of the scale of magnitudes involved, if a Saiyan converted all of the matter from the food he ate into pure energy (like a matter/antimatter annihilation) it would likely be at the sort of level for busting planets. Maybe that's all ki is: antimatter. Explains why it blows the fuck up whatever it hits, and a small ball of it can turn a planet into shrapnel.


 No.848390

>>848212

>Ki which is a spiritual force that comes from the mental and physical fortitude of a person.

>physical fortitude

Instead of mental I should have said spiritual and physical fortitude but I mean like strength of will and mental preparedness


 No.848398

>>848161

This, Trunks already had the win in the bag he just wanted to take the piss out of freiza


 No.848401

File: 3bd8fd57e24b72f⋯.png (839.28 KB, 1084x808, 271:202, Broly hint and there goes ….png)

File: 7989e61d9c19c4b⋯.png (835.98 KB, 1094x813, 1094:813, Caulifa and her smelly ear….png)

File: f0ec1f59fe78748⋯.png (861.52 KB, 1082x810, 541:405, Could this be yuri's true ….png)

File: c8babdffc566e88⋯.png (888.28 KB, 1083x812, 1083:812, Kale transforms.png)

File: 9373047d2cb064d⋯.png (896.87 KB, 1089x812, 1089:812, Kale bully.png)

>>845215

I'm really starting to love manga Kale over anime Kale. She doesn't have that super weak personality anymore, but she's still super protective of Caulifa. Her retard strength has the obvious limit of not being precise enough to hit once her enemies catch on too. I'm really curious if Gohan is going to take more of the spotlight in the manga than he did in the anime.


 No.848403

File: 320d4850fa64d86⋯.png (889.76 KB, 1087x807, 1087:807, Too many varieties.png)

File: 2bb19dcb6eb5223⋯.png (874.03 KB, 1090x813, 1090:813, Frieza still so tsundere.png)

File: bb3d0de5c8d27f0⋯.png (887.2 KB, 1084x805, 1084:805, Frieza still so tsundere 2.png)

>>848401

The tournament is going a lot faster than the anime. I wonder if they already have the next arc thought up and ready to go? It looks like the popular characters from the anime are sticking around and all of the duds are getting the boot almost immediately. We never got to see the father/son kamehameha nor the pretty black hole. The giant fusion monster got one-shotted and the guys that fought Roshi got bullied. 17 is till amazing though. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a similar ending with him, Goku and Frieza. However, Gohan seems to be getting more screen time. If he's the one to take down Kalefa, then he might make it to the end or at least near where Vegeta fell out. Of course, he might be taken out with that bunny again too. I found the legendary super saiyan name drop interesting as well. It pretty much creates a path for the series to follow after this tournament. We already know from Caulifa that the legendary super saiyan is a demon of a saiyan and a major threat to all. It wouldn't be hard for the next arc to involve him in some way and it would act as a tie-in for the new movie too. Who knows where they'll go though.


 No.848407

File: c050c99caa7effb⋯.png (126.99 KB, 319x341, 29:31, 2ymd468.png)

>>841303

>Super

>canon


 No.848408

>>848407

Does it even matter at this point? Everything after Cell might as well be fan fiction.


 No.848424

>>848408

>Everything after Cell might as well be fan fiction.

This is true


 No.848521

>>848098

Otherworld is a physical place though. You can teleport there and everything.

>>848401

Anime Kale learning to control her form was stupid and anti-climactic. Having to force her to fuse so that Caulifla can help control the power is a much more fulfilling solution.

>>848403

The manga is clearly written as secondary material that is simply doing its best to try to keep up with the anime, and even then it's like a year behind. It will probably just barely manage to catch up by the time the movie comes out. The question is if it will adapt the movie or if it will do it off-panel like the last movie.


 No.848539

File: 4cd70d6907d663f⋯.gif (1.02 MB, 325x203, 325:203, 4cd70d6907d663f729ee075410….gif)

>>848408

>after cell, fan fiction

>not after dragon ball, fan fiction

Other than extremely thick rose tinted goggles Z fags tend to have, DBZ has so many ass pulls that it would make Super plush. But whatever,

muh fite seens

I enjoyed super as it was, another Dragon Ball story about fighting and powering up since Z opened the flood gates to it, why complain about old shit. Also Potara fusion makes more sense as time limit than "Magic Atmosphere" that did all of jack shit to split Gotenks fusion.


 No.848592

>>848539

The original Dragon Ball manga covers the entire timeframe that the Z anime covers.


 No.848616

File: be2a2fa7295278d⋯.png (315.67 KB, 500x376, 125:94, Bulla_after_shopping.png)

>>848403

>The tournament is going a lot faster than the anime. I wonder if they already have the next arc thought up and ready to go?

The less time spent on the tournament the better. In fact, he should have not done the entire arc at all.

>>848401

>I'm really starting to love manga Kale over anime Kale.

It isn't hard to beat "I turn into the Legendary SSJ from light teasing.". However, I would prefer that Kefla gets violently raped and dies of exhaustion. Then El Grande Padre declared that her death was caused by her sluttiness thus resulting in no penalties. That or not having this gayass tournament in the first place.

>>848539

No, DBS is a special level of bad. And the real reason why they made the Potara earrings temporary is because they wanted to abuse it in the video games.

>>848521

>The manga is clearly written as secondary material

The anime is canon but inconsistent and gay. Toriyama didn't even want to make the Saiyans girls from U6. It was a Toei idea. People still think that this is supposed to be 8 years old especially the retards in the wiki.


 No.848619

>>848616

>No, DBS is a special level of bad. And the real reason why they made the Potara earrings temporary is because they wanted to abuse it in the video games.

I don't believe this. The time limit never stopped them from being used in the games before.

>People still think that this is supposed to be 8 years old especially the retards in the wiki.

I buy that Bulma's kid would be a natural slut from a very young age. Yeah they fucked up but it's not major. You can just say she looks old for her age, as you pointed out.


 No.848625

>>848619

>I don't believe this. The time limit never stopped them from being used in the games before.

In the Budokai series, Potara Fusions lacks the timer seen with Fusions produced by Fusion Dance. Also, I meant stuff like Dragon Ball Heroes that gets FMVs and a promotional anime. What do you believe more: 1) Toriyama always planned to make the Potara earrings temporary but didn't confirm it or brought up the possiblity that defusing wasn't abnormal until the Zamasu arc. 2) Money, Money, Money!

>I buy that Bulma's kid would be a natural slut from a very young age.

Or Toriyama fucking forgot. It isn't a big deal but Superfags need to learn what a retcon is. That is why I didn't get butthurt about Elder Kai saying that one who trap him in Z-sword was Beerus even though he said that Buu was stronger or something. Because I know that he didn't think about Beerus yet (and what Elder Kai meant could be interpreted differently). No need to make up some bullshit about Saiyan-Human genetics or S-Cells.


 No.848639

File: bacdf87a0033998⋯.jpg (180.21 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, And don't ever come back t….jpg)

>>848625

>What do you believe more: 1) Toriyama always planned to make the Potara earrings temporary but didn't confirm it or brought up the possiblity that defusing wasn't abnormal until the Zamasu arc. 2) Money, Money, Money!

Option 2 doesn't require video games to enter into the equation though. All it requires is that Super doesn't give a fuck and wants to use Vegeto whenever they want and not have to explain shit.

>It isn't a big deal but Superfags need to learn what a retcon is.

It's a retcon but barely. "She's actually older than she looks, but we didn't mention it before." Yeah it's just a fuck up but it's really, really minor and not something that classifies as even a plot hole. The much bigger retcon would obviously be the Potara wearing off for mortals.

Yeah there are probably dumb latinos who enthusiastically buy everything that is shat out of this franchise, but frankly I'm just at the point where it's all fucking bullshit and I can accept whatever because at this point the ridiculousness of it all is why it's fun. I think I came to this realization when Vegeta's awesome quip at the end of Resurrection F was "And don't ever come back to life again!" That line perfectly encapsulates what Dragon Ball had already become a long time ago, and what everyone had been making fun of for decades. The best part is that he did come back to life again, too.


 No.848663

File: d01f56b8ec74c4e⋯.png (108.66 KB, 330x250, 33:25, OldGoku.png)

>>848639

>All it requires is that Super doesn't give a fuck and wants to use Vegeto whenever they want and not have to explain shit.

Yet they only used Vegito in DBS only once which they could have defused using the Dragon Balls, say the mechanism that prevents multiple fusions prevented Goku and Vegeta from permanently fusing, or say that U10 potara earrings are different. Also, I was under the assumption that you were the same guy that replied to. Either way it falls into the board umbrella of merchandising. Why does Ultra Instinct turn Goku's hair white and make him stronger when it is explicitly not a Super Saiyan form? Video games and toys.

>It's a retcon but barely. "She's actually older than she looks, but we didn't mention it before." Yeah it's just a fuck up but it's really, really minor and not something that classifies as even a plot hole. The much bigger retcon would obviously be the Potara wearing off for mortals.

The comment about the retcon thing was just about DBS in general. I don't mind some retconning. In fact, I would like it if they said that the other Z Fighters can use the Kaio-ken but just didn't used it before. There people defending the "3 punches of SSJG Goku and Beerus colliding are enough to destroy the universe" (Yes, I'm saying DBS retcons itself.) by saying that SSJB is the ultimate Ki control until they decided just to silently not talk about it. I was just shitting on the retards in the comment section of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9alLKtLrQE and elsewhere.

1) Bulla/Bra doesn't look 8.

2) DBZ hasn't confirmed when she was born.

3) She consistently looks older than Pan.

4) DBS already retcons the end of DBZ.

5) Trunks and Goten haven't fucking aged in DBS so the wiki can eat shit with that half-Saiyan aging faster shit.

6) Saying DBS is canon and DBGT isn't canon doesn't change the context of that scene. If she really was 9, Vegeta should have Ki blast those fuckers to hell. Park his car and get a fucking medal from King Furry.

It has been more than 10 years since DBZ. No need to make up excuses. THERE ARE STILL ARTICLES REFERRING TO TIEN AS HALF-THREE EYED ALIEN MOSTLY TO JUSTIFY THAT "KRILLIN IS THE STRONGEST EARTHLING" BULLSHIT. Not to mention the retarded debate whether humans colloquially refers to mortals and whether the proper term for people like Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien is Earthling.

>but frankly I'm just at the point where it's all fucking bullshit and I can accept whatever because at this point the ridiculousness of it all is why it's fun.

That point is moot when it becomes predictable ridiculousness. Hey! Let's pretend that the humans are useful but waste their potential in the actual tournament. Elder Kai can Potential Unleash the crew but they don't have time. What about Hyperbolic Time Chamber? A few hours there would be enough. No, let's bring Frieza back and also shit on Yamcha again. (Yamcha did had a point that it didn't made sense to clone him in Dragon Ball FighterZ but fuck that. We got more character interactions than we ever got in DBS's brand of "brainless" fun.) Then Gohan goes on about going a different path than his father and have his father steal his form.

Only DBS made me think that Dragon Ball needs a reboot. I wonder what would have happened if Goku just stay fucking dead. His reasons for doing so is stupid but we aren't going to get old master Son Goku. Everyone staying young even Bulma with all those remarks of sagging breasts (that saiyan semen must be helping which explains why Chi-Chi is actually aging a bit). Maybe turn Gohan to a semi-serious superhero protagonist. Unlike his father, he will have to deal with problems that he can't just punch to solve.


 No.848744

>>848663

>Yet they only used Vegito in DBS only once which they could have defused using the Dragon Balls, say the mechanism that prevents multiple fusions prevented Goku and Vegeta from permanently fusing, or say that U10 potara earrings are different.

Yeah they could have used better excuses but they don't give enough of a fuck. Also they also used the potara for Kefla, though yes theoretically they could have just said U6 potara are different. My point is that Super is dumb enough that I can chalk up anything to sheer incompetence.

>Why does Ultra Instinct turn Goku's hair white and make him stronger when it is explicitly not a Super Saiyan form? Video games and toys.

Super Saiyan God technically isn't a Super Saiyan form either. Frankly I'd say calling it Super Saiyan God rather than Saiyan God has to do with merchandising and advertising. Ultra Instinct, however, I think is just wanting a visual way to show it, otherwise you get a Super Saiyan 2 situation where people forget it exists and what it's supposed to be.

>In fact, I would like it if they said that the other Z Fighters can use the Kaio-ken but just didn't used it before.

Yeah frankly stuff like this has always bugged me. Goku was amazing to pull of the Kaio-Ken at the time, but everyone has gotten much stronger than him since then, and Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Yamcha have all trained with Kaio as well. They should all know Kaio-Ken for sure. Maybe you could say Chaozu and Yamcha are shitty students since they didn't do much since they got brought back to life, and they were kind of known for being unintelligent in the first place, but Tenshinhan and Piccolo should be able to learn it no problem.

>There people defending the "3 punches of SSJG Goku and Beerus colliding are enough to destroy the universe" (Yes, I'm saying DBS retcons itself.) by saying that SSJB is the ultimate Ki control until they decided just to silently not talk about it.

Yeah but that's stupid because there's a much simpler and more logical excuse. Beerus was strong enough to negate the energy from the punches so it didn't destroy the universe. Goku wasn't, but it wasn't said how much stronger he'd have to be in order to do that. Evidently at some point between that fight and fighting Frieza, he got strong enough to do that. It stands to reason that everyone at that level of strength just naturally does this because they don't want to destroy the universe, or at least one of the fighters involved doesn't want to.

Also obviously SSJB is just turning Super Saiyan while harnessing God Ki. It's not complicated. I don't get why they don't turn Super Saiyan 2 while harnessing God Ki. Super Saiyan 2 is just being a calm Super Saiyan and then turning Super Saiyan on top of your first Super Saiyan transformation. Goku explains that God Ki helps him even be calm enough as a Super Saiyan to do Kaio-Ken, so certainly he'd be calm enough to do Super Saiyan 2, which apparently requires less calmness since he was able to do it without God Ki, while he couldn't do Super Saiyan Kaio-Ken without it.


 No.848745

>5) Trunks and Goten haven't fucking aged in DBS so the wiki can eat shit with that half-Saiyan aging faster shit.

They're gonna have one hell of a growth spurt in the last year or two between the Tournament of Power and when Goku meets Uub. This is clearly because Super doesn't act like time is passing, even though just due to Pan's age, Battle of Gods is like four years after the end of the Buu Saga, and several more years have passed since then, but all these timeskips happen nonchalantly, while in the manga and older anime, each timeskip was a big deal, and many arcs would take place right next to each other, like the Tenshinhan and Piccolo Daimao sagas, or the Saiyan and Frieza sagas.

>If she really was 9, Vegeta should have Ki blast those fuckers to hell. Park his car and get a fucking medal from King Furry.

Vegeta becomes a little pussywhipped bitch either way. Age has nothing to do with it. He's too much of a faggot to not let his daughter act like a slut, so he's too much of a faggot to stop her acting like a slut just because she's young.

>No, let's bring Frieza back and also shit on Yamcha again.

I kinda like Yamcha being the sad sack joke character of the group. Better than most of Z where he was 100% irrelevant. The guy hasn't won a fight since the one time he beat hungry kid goku in his first appearance. It's not like it's just Super that made him worthless. They just found a role for someone with his history.

>Then Gohan goes on about going a different path than his father and have his father steal his form.

But Goku was training for Ultra Instinct ever since Resurrection F. They didn't call it then but Whis was already talking about having your muscles move on their own, which is what Ultra Instinct is. That's not to say that that isn't dumb, and that Goku hasn't already learned it several times before, but it's not what Gohan was doing.

Seeing them reference Uub before the tournament of power was kind of promising. Like "don't worry guys, we remember." I'd hope that at this point they just pass over the end of Z and have Uub become a main character as Goku trains him. Also he needs to train Neko Majin Z at some point before that. Also they powered up Goku to Beerus's level with Ultra Instinct, or at least really close. So they need to at least have Goku beat Beerus at some point.

I don't like rebooting things. I prefer counting everything and just focusing on the best parts. But the bad parts can be redeemed with the right story, and having a richer world to draw from can help create more interesting stories.


 No.848828

Seriously, who the fuck is going to read all this?


 No.848855

>>846049

>able to read minds

To be fair, would that be really useful in combat at all?


 No.848955

>>848774

>Ultra Instinct, however, I think is just wanting a visual way to show it

That is what I'm making fun of. Also, he shouldn't get stronger from that. Future Trunks' SSJ2 is stronger than Goku's SSJ3 in the manga.

>Yeah but that's stupid because there's a much simpler and more logical excuse. Beerus was strong enough to negate the energy from the punches so it didn't destroy the universe.

1) That isn't how it worked.

2) He didn't do that with his fight with Goku.

3) He didn't do that with his fight with Champa.

4) It is explicitly why ToP was held at the Void.

The real reason is the anime wanted to one up the movie by raising the stakes. The DBS writers had no foresight whatsoever.

>>848745

>I kinda like Yamcha being the sad sack joke character of the group. Better than most of Z where he was 100% irrelevant. The guy hasn't won a fight since the one time he beat hungry kid goku in his first appearance. It's not like it's just Super that made him worthless. They just found a role for someone with his history.

Yes, he is treated better than Tien and especially Chiaotzu but they are pushing Master Roshi for some fucking reason. I was already addressed that he gets eliminated early in the original DB. In there, he mostly serves a preview.

>This is clearly because Super doesn't act like time is passing,

It is just pandering to Zfags that just want DBZ 2.

>But Goku was training for Ultra Instinct ever since Resurrection F.

I was making a Gohan Blanco joke.

>Seeing them reference Uub before the tournament of power was kind of promising. Like "don't worry guys, we remember." I'd hope that at this point they just pass over the end of Z and have Uub become a main character as Goku trains him.

They aren't going to fucking do that. They would sooner retcon DBS.

>I don't like rebooting things. I prefer counting everything and just focusing on the best parts. But the bad parts can be redeemed with the right story, and having a richer world to draw from can help create more interesting stories.

That is the videogames' job and DBS isn't redeemable.

>>848828

>Seriously, who the fuck is going to read all this?

It took me less than a minute to read all that. How short is your attention span?

>>848855

>To be fair, would that be really useful in combat at all?

You have put your hand on someone's forehead so not really.


 No.849116

>>848855

It could be useful, in an anime that's not entirely about power levels. Being able to read someone's personality could allow someone to deduce their fighting style and preferences, and then counter it perfectly. If they read their memories of every fight they've been in, and can process that massive amount of data in seconds, it would basically paint a virtual picture of exactly how they will fight. Every technique, every feint or dodge or guard or counter, how they tend to attack and defend. All they have to do then is find a small weakness and exploit it.


 No.849144

>>847969

>>847919

Superman's litteral power level is "As strong as he needs to be." or "The writer's will". This is fine in supes stories, but is ass retarted if you want to match him up since thats his "offical" power level. A shit ton of the DC heroes have recorded feats that should be physically imposible, like Wonderwoman seeing and blocking star bullets that are galaxies away, sounds pretty Greek god myth-ish, or Flash "running" the entire universe in a few second Speed Force god really lets Flash get away with to much bullshit but then WW never demonstrates this speed again when fighting other speedsters unless the writer really wants too.

I don't expect much from a comic artist education so I'm not surprise they don't have a sense of scale of space or use measuremeants like an attosecond without really considering what that means but I guess Jap public education made sure they don't go full retard with physics unless they really plan on going full retard with physics. I don't know where DC higer thier writers, but if it doesn't say Batman, it doesn't really sell. Having some grounded level of limits makes a story interesing, but this is a /co/ topic anyway. Having multiple writers with multiple interperitations of the same characters is always asking for troube.


 No.849237

>>849144

The problem with western comics is that they're essentially running series with the same characters, that keep on going for decades upon decades. Every single problem that long-running shounen series have with power creep (main character starts out barely above normal and by the end of the series is challenging literal gods with planet-buster-tier strength) over an eight-year period of serialization also applies to western comics, except worse, because their "story" often continues for ten times longer. The power creep reaches a point where its no longer enough to be fighting gods, so they have to go "beyond the impossible", and then go beyond that, and then go EVEN FURTHER BEYOND. After a while they get tired of that shit, so they just retcon everything and start over.


 No.849544

>>849237

This is why I stopped reading western comics at age 10. Even by then I recognized the problems and moved on to gook toons.


 No.849612

The only people who defend DBS are just having fun jumping through hoops to find some way, some how that the things presented aren't complete bullshit.

I think if they had less pride they would be fanfiction writers.


 No.849746

>>849612

>The only people who defend DBS are just having fun jumping through hoops to find some way, some how that the things presented aren't complete bullshit.

You underestimate how retarded people are. Also, a literal fan fiction writer is writing the official manga and it is better written than the anime.

DBZ ended with Goku flying off to train Uub who was an Earthling (it wasn't clear how reincarnation thing works in terms of power). I don't know why Goku made a big deal about leaving his family when he can literally teleport to see them anytime. Anyway, the strongest transformation in DBZ wasn't even a Saiyan form. Goku even explicitly told Vegeta to accept the extinction of the Saiyan race. Then DBS happened and God Ki form for some reason. You can say that Ultra Instinct does that; but considering that changes Goku's hair white, it is going to be treated as a Saiyan exclusive.


 No.849849

File: d1521e206b6707b⋯.png (539.96 KB, 640x480, 4:3, Annoyed.png)

>>849612

oh boy, let's pretend DBZ didn't retcon bullshit out of no where to keep it in a pristine unsoiled condition that never happened.

>Goku is an alien now

>Goku has a brother now from space

>Goku now had a head injury as a child

>Power levels now exist

>Home planet destroyed by a meteor, for now

>In 1 year training, most Z fighters are now stronger than Goku was 1 year ago when he fought Raditz

>1 year of super exercises makes Goku nearly 15x stronger than raditz.

This is all just the Saiyan Arc. Do I need to go into Planet vegetas destruction method being retconned the next arc? Or the introduction of zenkais that are fucking inconsistent over all of Z? I looked over Supers ass pulls as nothing more than what was expected from the Dragon Ball series since Z.


 No.849852

>>849849

>Goku is an alien now

>Goku has a brother now from space

>Goku now had a head injury as a child

>Power levels now exist

These are all reveals, not retcons. There was nothing in Dragon Ball saying Goku didn't have a brother, that he wasn't an alien (in fact, the previous arc FORESHADOWED a bit of the alien stuff with Piccolo and Kami's conversation).

>Home planet destroyed by a meteor, for now

That is REVEALED (not retconed) to be Freeza.

>In 1 year training, most Z fighters are now stronger than Goku was 1 year ago when he fought Raditz

They were already at Goku's 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai level and they weren't just training with Kami and Popo

>1 year of super exercises makes Goku nearly 15x stronger than raditz.

It's more like he's 8 times stronger. Anyways, gravity training, as we see in that arc and later arcs is absolutely broken. He was also training with a guy stronger than Kami.


 No.849943

>>849849

>oh boy, let's pretend DBZ didn't retcon bullshit out of no where to keep it in a pristine unsoiled condition that never happened.

Do you even know what a retcon is?

>Do I need to go into Planet vegetas destruction method being retconned the next arc?

Good god, you are retarded.

Superfags have two entries of attack: downplay the flaws of DBS and shit on DBZ. It is the same tactics for the new Star Wars and Bethesda's version of Fallout. Getting screenshots of DBS is cherry picking but doing the same to DBZ isn't?


 No.850090

File: e4b45b17ee2ea82⋯.jpeg (36.74 KB, 317x463, 317:463, images (1).jpeg)

>>849612

Imagine a comic like Reincarnated as Yamcha but instead of the ideal Dragon Ball fan an /a/non that wants Goku to stay dead or at the very least prevent DBS from happening.


 No.850133

>>850090

Hah, having an insider so autistic about DBZ that he spends his chance living in the world trying to 'fix' the Canon would be some amazing meta-humor.


 No.850176

>>849144

>Superman's litteral power level is "As strong as he needs to be." or "The writer's will".

Naw. There are stories where his power increases or decreases, plus additional power creep which is justified in-universe as more practice/yellow sunlight. You just need to specify which era of Superman you're talking about, same as Goku.

>>849237

Power creep happens in western comics but one thing I've noticed as a general difference between American superheroes and Japanese superheroes is that Japanese superhero stories are more often about becoming more powerful than the enemy, when you weren't at the start. American comics typically don't feature their heroes actually trying to become more powerful through training or powerups, but rather the power level stays static through the story but the hero has to find a way to outwit the villain every time. There are exceptions in both cases, but for the archtypical examples of Superman and Goku, Goku frequently has to get a new form or go off and train after first being defeated so he can later come back and win. Superman almost never does any of that, he just has to find crazy ways to outwit the villain, and when he does get more powerful, it's typically power creep that isn't noticed until you compare things that are published very far apart. Exceptions to both include Vegeta, Goku, and Mr. Satan coming up with a plan using the Dragon Balls to power up Goku's Genki Dama to defeat Buu, and Superman being more powerful after he came back to life, due to the technology used to revive him, so that he could defeat Doomsday without dying in a rematch.

>>849746

>I don't know why Goku made a big deal about leaving his family when he can literally teleport to see them anytime.

Neko Majin shows Uub living with Goku's whole family, including Videl and Pan.

>>849852

>>849943

Most of his examples of retcons are indeed examples of retroactive continuity. Kami being an alien instead of just God is certainly a retcon. It might have been foreshadowed, but that doesn't mean it's not a retcon. It's new continuity that changes the way things were presented before. Changing Goku from Son Wukong into Superman is obviously a huge retcon. Retcons aren't inherently bad, it has to do with execution. Revealing (retconning) that Frieza is actually the one responsible for destroying Vegeta makes sense, but it's still a retcon.


 No.850191

>>850090

>isekai

>but you're Yamcha

Fuck year time to get first dibs on Bulma's pussy


 No.850209

>>850090

I remember having that discussion with you a few threads ago. I still say it's absolute gold and it needs to happen.


 No.850233

File: 5efab7ac4156270⋯.png (391.9 KB, 640x360, 16:9, SharpnerS.png)

>>850176

What you are using is the looser definition of retcon which means any new information included into a past event in a story. Most people don't use that definition because it only counts if the writer didn't deliberately left that part of the story ambiguous otherwise all prequels are retcons even if it was already planned. That definition of retcon relies heavily on author's intent which is harder to tell if not impossible.

>>850191

I thought that the last chapter would end with the revelation that the MC was reborn in Future Trunks' timeline forcing Yamcha to be main character rather stay in the sidelines.

>>850209

One of Gohan's problems is that he has no rival. I was thinking that Sharpner could fill that role because he would a good foil to Gohan. There is also the fact that there is less baggage of letting the story progress the way that it is suppose to. It would be a lot of work to make him strong enough to make Gohan break a sweat but there is a lot more room to be your own character.


 No.850381

>>850176

A self-contained Superman story doesn't have much power creep, but I was talking more about the character over time. When he was first introduced, Superman was just a really strong (Nazi-punching) dude in a funny costume. He couldn't even FLY at first! hence "can leap tall buildings in a single bound". And while we're at the rest of that spiel: "faster than a speeding bullet" is not fast at all in the grand scheme of things, and even lesser superheros can manage at least that; and Supes might have started out "more powerful than a locomotive" which is, what, a few thousand horsepower? but now he can bench-press fucking planets. Everything else about the character was a retcon. He wasn't originally an alien; he wasn't originally powered by sunlight or however the fuck that works; he didn't originally have x-ray vision or heat vision and whatever else; and the whole deal with him being unbeatable because he's the incarnate of goodness of course was thrown in eventually. But the point is, it's still the same damn character, same as Goku is still the same character regardless of which arc you're talking about. I don't even what to TRY to guess what's considered canon or not in Western comics, because the answer would probably require a massive spreadsheet with all the fucking timelines and separate universes and shit. Fuck, I don't think there IS a canon in the vast majority of cases.

As for retcons, I only count it if it's something that is changed, not added. Kami was obviously not an Earthling, and saying he's "God" in context doesn't exclude him from also being an alien. Any somewhat rational explanation for the Christian God would probably have to include some alien superintelligence, too. But this loose definition of retcon could basically include everything new that happens in any series anywhere. That's senseless. A retcon would be like when they originally said the Potora earrings were permanent in all cases, and the reason Vegeto defused was because the inside of Buu was some bizarre magic realm where the laws of the outside Universe do not apply; but then in Super they changed it so they have a time-limit when "mortals" use them. It was obviously just a plot-device so that Vegeta and Goku didn't remain fused forever (although, it would have been pretty goddamned funny if — after the battle with Zamasu concluded — they had to somehow get themselves eaten by Buu again, so they would de-fuse). That's completely different than just adding new information; because it's something that directly contradicts what was said before, that basically just makes the previous statement a total lie.


 No.850463

Anyone else find it stupid how they did literally nothing with Raditz? You'd think Goku would at least wish back his brother at this point.


 No.850465

>>850233

This reminds me of how in canon, for a short time, Videl was kindasorta Gohan's rival. It actually would have worked nicely if there was some time progression (aka, if almost the entire Buu saga didn't take place over like 48 fucking hours) so they could be rivals and slowly fall for each other. The only issue, same thing, is that Videl couldn't possibly be powerful enough to provide an actual challenge as even the strongest humans were leagues behind Super Saiyans at that point.

Thinking of this made me laugh at the first idea that popped into my head, which was to have Videl's (never seen) mother be revealed to have actually been a Saiyan. Then it made me sad, because it seems rather plausible that this could ACTUALLY HAPPEN sometime in Super. If Toei ever thought of it, anyway. Why else would a filthy quarter-Saiyan infant have such a ridiculously high power level for literally no reason at all? They could even retcon the whole using Pan as the "fifth Saiyan" in the SSG ritual as that it was actually Videl, who is secretly half-Saiyan. Shit, there's no reason they can't or won't do this. Nobody tell Toei; they're listening.

>>850463

I doubt Goku remembers. I doubt Goku cares, because family for him has nothing to do with blood ties.


 No.850473

>>850465

New Videl looks like shit anyway and gave up fighting. I hate it.


 No.850481

File: 3dfcce8fa3885db⋯.png (1.24 MB, 600x795, 40:53, ClipboardImage.png)

>>849849

>>Goku is an alien now

This literally gets mentioned for the first time way back in Dragon Ball when Goku is fighting the Red Ribbon Army. They scan him and it showns he's not human. In fact, it happens SO FUCKING LONG before DBZ that people joke that Toriyama might have completely forgotten he made Goku an alien, and then decided to make him into an alien a second time.

>Power levels now exist

Power Levels exist for fucking everything in the world, but DBZ just gave a specific name to the same bullshit fans have argued over for years. And power levels were created to try and give a meaningful distinction between people who were so fucking far beyond the scope of human there was no way to put proper context in them.

>>850381

>He wasn't originally an alien

Nigger fuck off


 No.850489

File: 0a570a81b637701⋯.jpg (22.91 KB, 640x480, 4:3, f9195abcafc911c31fcecb1bce….jpg)

File: b1f49173d465a74⋯.jpg (85.38 KB, 840x634, 420:317, Fullscreen-capture-532017-….jpg)

>>850481

>This literally gets mentioned for the first time way back in Dragon Ball when Goku is fighting the Red Ribbon Army. They scan him and it showns he's not human. In fact, it happens SO FUCKING LONG before DBZ that people joke that Toriyama might have completely forgotten he made Goku an alien, and then decided to make him into an alien a second time.

That only happened in the anime version, and that was because Toei ripped text right from a scene in Alien thinking nobody would be able to read it. By your logic, you might as well say that Naoko Takeuchi always intended Sailor Mercury to be Robocop.


 No.850490

File: a729e749261ea2f⋯.gif (999.64 KB, 400x225, 16:9, TYdFWPK.gif)

>>850489

>That only happened in the anime version

Oh, I guess I'm retarded


 No.850517


 No.850518

>The only issue, same thing, is that Videl couldn't possibly be powerful enough to provide an actual challenge as even the strongest humans were leagues behind Super Saiyans at that point.

But if for some reason she was a prodigy and started to keep up that would have been so much more interesting and allowed for so many more stories and interactions that would have been great.

Gohan should have remained the protagonist after Cell Saga and Videl as a new rival would have kicked ass.


 No.850520

>>850518

Just have Videl be a super capable fighter that turns out to be the LEGENDARY SUPER HUMAN.

>You're not dealing with your average human anymore, Saiyaman.


 No.850523

>>850518

I've had this discussion before, but DB would've been much better if after Goku died in Cell, Gohan stayed as the focus. Those early chapters where he's running around as Saiyaman were great, but they ruin it like 5 chapters in when Goku says he's coming back for the tournament.

Imagine Buu if Goku didn't go to the tournament or even talked to Gohan at all. The only change you'd need to make is to have Majin Piccolo rather than Vegeta, and you can just have Goku show up when Gohan is getting his potential unlocked.

Then we can have our JoJo style continuation of DB where we get a nice 150 chapter arc focusing on new character with some relation to Goku (which wouldn't be hard, seeing as by Online (again, FUCK SUPER), everyone has a bit of Saiyajin in them).

I hate the current direction DB is going in, where every threat is 'The new Strongest Guy' and the focus is always on Goku and Vegeta, and when it isn't, it's on characters who have already had their arc and development completed, and any new characters are joke characters like Jaco or have no character like Jiren


 No.850527

>>841247

>Implying a Broly movie is a bad thing


 No.850533

>>850523

I just find it dumb that all characters have no relevance outside of Goku. No amount of training for them will ever have a point. I think the tournaments in super were trying to address that kind of, but ultimately failed to do so.

Now that I think of it Dragonball has the superman problem. Goku is superman and he's too damn strong to the point where he always wins and it's not interesting and no one else has any point to their inclusion in the story. Ultimately they had to invent kryptonite to give him SOME kind of weakness and give stakes to shit but even that was just a shitty band-aid over a gaping hole.


 No.850538

>>850533

No, what they should do is do a huge timeskip, go ahead 1000 years when Saiyajins have fully integrated with human and every "human" can go Super Saiyajin (what I mean is, copy DB Online).

That's how you raise the stakes. Everybody has equal footing by that point, it's not like DB, where every human is pointless, it's like JoJo's, where some manga artist can have the most broken power.

Speaking of JoJo's, DB could use something like stands. Or do more adventuring (except in space this time, retcon the whole 'Only 24 livable planets' thing).

Goku can sustain the series for the autists who'll eat it up, but he can't sustain a good story, and the current state of DB can't create a good story without doing AU shit


 No.850549

File: e49bd90f5902f0f⋯.jpg (20.52 KB, 480x360, 4:3, dbzop2.jpg)

File: f4d871b54d5f568⋯.png (1.23 MB, 1366x768, 683:384, ClipboardImage.png)

>>850381

The Buu magic belly explanation isn't necessarily the reason for the defusion because it was simply just a theory by characters. Seeing that Elder Kai wasn't aware of the Potara earrings power prior to fusing with the witch, he might not be the most well informed. While the Potara earring having a time limit doesn't necessarily contradict DBZ, I consider it a retcon for the following reasons:

1) Many many years have past and it was never brought up until DBS.

2) No one in universe has ever questioned why they defused.

3) The anime and manga couldn't even decide how to retcon how the Potara earrings work.

4) It ruins the thing that makes Potara earrings special.

Personally, I would have just said that dead people couldn't fuse with living people.

>It was obviously just a plot-device so that Vegeta and Goku didn't remain fused forever (although, it would have been pretty goddamned funny if — after the battle with Zamasu concluded — they had to somehow get themselves eaten by Buu again, so they would de-fuse).

see >>848663

>which they could have defused using the Dragon Balls, say the mechanism that prevents multiple fusions prevented Goku and Vegeta from permanently fusing, or say that U10 potara earrings are different.

>>850463

Why should he give a shit about Raditz? He already gave him a chance.

>>850465

>>850518

Videl has never been a rival to Gohan. She has already been cast as Gohan's love interest. I picked Sharpner because he and Erasa are underutilized characters and Gohan needs some fucking friends his age. For some reason, those two were in the ending shot of DBZ's 2nd Opening. Sharpner already has a rival personality to Gohan. If Isekai'd, I guess the best option would be to use the Dragon Balls to get to the Sacred World of the Supreme Kai, train hard enough to break the Z-sword, try to learn Kai Kai, break the Z-sword, and try to convince Elder Kai to potential unleash.

>>850520

>Just have Videl be a super capable fighter that turns out to be the LEGENDARY SUPER HUMAN.

DBZ had the human characters ignore obvious power ups like learning the Spirit Bomb or Kaio-ken. Goku did offer Krillin and Yamcha to go train with him and Piccolo in the Cell arc but they refused. Not to mention that things like Instant Transmission and Potential Unleash are not race exclusive.

>>850473

Can she even fly anymore?

>>850538

Almost everyone here agrees that Goku should just fucking die.


 No.850744

>>850549

>Videl has never been a rival to Gohan. She has already been cast as Gohan's love interest.

She can be both. Besides he's half saiyan he should be into that.

>DBZ had the human characters ignore obvious power ups like learning the Spirit Bomb or Kaio-ken. Goku did offer Krillin and Yamcha to go train with him and Piccolo in the Cell arc but they refused. Not to mention that things like Instant Transmission and Potential Unleash are not race exclusive.

So it's shitty writing.


 No.850751

>>850481

>One part of what you said is wrong, therefore the entire premise must be wrong!

This is not how arguments work, bucko. It says right there that a "bursting shell" could penetrate his skin, whereas nowadays Superman could tank a supernova without mussing his hair. That guy is still correct.

>>850523

>Majin Piccolo

Why? Vegeta would have been pretty cheesed if Gohan also had become stronger than him (and actually WAS, rather than regressing in the times of peace or whatever).

>>850538

>If everyone is Super, no one will be

It would make sense to go the opposite. Saiyan blood is so diluted that nobody can transform anymore. It would basically be rolling things back to early Dragonball where it was more martial arts (fantasy idealized martial arts) instead of who can create the biggest ki blast.


 No.850776

>>850549

>Almost everyone here agrees that Goku should just fucking die.

No.


 No.850777

>>850776

I think having Gohan's adventures alongside Goku's afterlife adventures would've been cool. Goku keeps a portion of the spotlight but Gohan's the star.


 No.850783

>>850776

The keywords are "almost" and " here." Besides, Goku dying has no real time frame. As long as Goku isn't main character and won't butt in for the most part.

>>850744

>So it's shitty writing.

My point is that they didn't try hard enough. To be fair, it wouldn't be strong enough to change the outcome of the story. However, Gohan at the beginning of the Buu arc was weaker than his 11 year old self. He just needs someone to try to keep up with him.

>She can be both.

But she isn't. Also, if you plan to procreate with that person someday, it stops being a rivalry. I mentioned in /co/ that Lex Luthor wouldn't have a hate boner for Supergirl even if she landed on Earth instead of Superman. It would be a regular one especially she grows up to look like Powergirl. Yes, I'm aware of Superboy's fathers but that wasn't consentual. Besides, Videl had a rival or was supposed to have one, Erasa.

>Besides he's half saiyan he should be into that.

No, he isn't. None of the half-Saiyans are really into that. If Raditz never arrived, Goku would have been a family man.

>>850777

Babidi should have been Saiyanman nemesis.


 No.850792

>>850783

>Babidi should have been Saiyanman nemesis.

That's exactly what I was thinking! He's buffing up humans and shit, causing chaos. Gohan's dealing with it in the mortal realm while Goku's got some issues in Otherworld. The problems cross over and they have to work together from both sides to put a stop to it. Videl could play a rival to Gohan for heroics, get into Ki and then get that permanent boost by Majin power before Gohan saves her.

The greatest tragedy of DBZ is there's so many paths it could take with some basic planning, but Toriyama's writing style meant that it took whatever course he felt like.


 No.850818

>>850538

>Speaking of JoJo's, DB could use something like stands.

Stands were written into Jojo to avoid powerlevel bullshit. Dragonball is nothing but powerlevel bullshit. That's the whole fucking point of the story.


 No.850931

>>850538

>Speaking of JoJo's, DB could use something like stands.

>>850818

>Stands were written into Jojo to avoid powerlevel bullshit.

Dragon Ball already has that. It is called magic.

There doesn't need to be a super human transformation but we have to be reassured that Earth will continue to be protected long after Saiyan blood evitably dilute to nothing. Something in between DBO and Xenoverse with less excuse plot.

If Dragon Ball FighterZ is canon, does that mean there exist an Earthling that know all of Goku's, Frieza's, Piccolo's, etc moves? If he take Piccolo's offer to train, will he be ridiculously strong?


 No.851022

>>850233

>What you are using is the looser definition of retcon which means any new information included into a past event in a story.

It's always questionable what was originally intended and what was not, but I think we can agree that Goku was not originally intended to have Superman's origin, and it's very likely that Frieza was not yet conceived when Raditz told Goku how his planet was destroyed. Those are examples of retcons. But I wouldn't say they're bad ones. The Potara wearing off on mortals is a retcon in just the same way, but I'd say it's a bad one because it doesn't feel fulfilling for the narrative. Retcons aren't inherently good or bad, but they can be good or bad just like any other part of a story.

>>850381

Superman's power creep does exist but to be fair that's technically because there are several main versions of Superman. The original, weaker Superman is a different guy from a different universe than most of the comics since the '50s. His power pretty much hit its peak in the '50s and he's mostly gotten weaker since then. It bounces back up and down but rarely past the '50s level. But the crazy things he does aren't just about power, they're just about being crazy and meta for the sake of it because that's one of his gimmicks. Mr. Mxyzptlk is so powerful that Superman's power doesn't make a difference, yet he's one of his most major villains. Because western stories aren't as often about power levels, and when they do crazy things, it's not so much about "look how cool this character is," but more about being meta and making philosophical statements because a bunch of modern comics writers literally call themselves wizards and say that their comics are magic spells.

>But the point is, it's still the same damn character, same as Goku is still the same character regardless of which arc you're talking about.

Technically not. Most of DC's stories up until the mid-50's or so take place in Earth-Two, because they wanted their recently rebooted characters like Flash and Green Lantern to meet their old versions from the '40s. Superman (plus Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, and Aquaman) had never been rebooted though, so they said that the Superman that met the older Flash was from that universe and Superman did actually reboot at some unspecified point but the new one had a history close to the old one, except for the parts that were explicitly different, like how you spell his name (Kal-L vs Kal-El) and most notably, how powerful he is.

All the other alt versions are just that, alt versions, like Goku from Dragon Ball Evolution. Nobody gets confused over that.

Retcons explicitly mean "retroactive continuity" though. So it's explicitly something that's added to the past. Actually changing something isn't a retcon, it's just fucking up. Saying Frieza lied to the surviving Saiyans about how their planet was destroyed is adding something, so it's a retcon. If they simply ignored the fact that they earlier gave a different explanation, it would have just been a mistake. Like how the anime added the bit about Planet Vegeta's God summoning comets or whatever, only for that later to be changed to Frieza, but Frieza never lied to Kaio. They just fucked up.

As for Kami, he's still God but also he's an alien. But he wasn't an alien at first until they revealed that new info, or continuity, about his past, retroactively. It's retroactive continuity.

>>850744

>So it's shitty writing.

Sure, but they justify it in that they say they couldn't keep up and would hold Goku back, which is pretty much true by that point as despite training until then they'd fallen well behind. Shortly after they just admit they're retiring and decide to settle down instead. Or at least Krillin does. Yamcha just gets forgotten because he's a bitch.


 No.851062

File: b76c3d26753fc3e⋯.png (1.66 MB, 1366x768, 683:384, foreshadowing.png)

File: 44bd0464c2e2630⋯.png (928.12 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, foreshadowing1.png)

File: 20b2b4a4cbd112d⋯.png (817.68 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, foreshadowing2.png)

>>849852

>>850176

I don't know if this relevant but Bulma knows what is up.


 No.851092

File: ac2ed449303670f⋯.jpg (23.51 KB, 480x360, 4:3, Kingkai.jpg)

>Planet and King Vegeta blew up.

Starting point

>Hey Bro, our planet blew up because of meteor and rocks and shit, Ain't that a bitch? Now join me so you can start your new career as a planet conqueror.

<Later, and King Kai's place.

>Yeah, the planet's guardian got tired of all the Saiyans chimping out and just said fuck it, then summoned some meteors.

Still not a retcon, since it was unexplored space before..

<Later with space real estate tycoon Lord Frieza

>I blew the fuck out of that planet. Damn dirty monkeys. They where getting too good and conquering. They would have started demanding legendary super raises in no time.

Now its a retcon, but King Kai story was filler anyway, so no one cared. Still a good example, King Kai and his North Galaxy vision would have known the truth. Especially with how he reacts to Frieza's name.


 No.851096

>>851022

>Literally any new information added to something is a retcon

You sure are a stubborn bitch about this, despite literally everyone here disagreeing.


 No.851269

>>851096

Not literally any information. I'm saying things that aren't the original intent are. Twists that were always intended are not. But Goku being Superman was obviously not originally intended. Kami and Piccolo, even if there is that line about being aliens, I think was likely not intended at first, even if it was intended by the time they talked to each other in their own language at the tournament. Of course it's also likely it was just supposed to be some god language. But let's say it was intended by then, it was probably not originally intended, but once the idea was hatched, Toriyama was smart enough to at least give it a bit of foreshadowing, which can strongly help a retcon feel like a good twist instead of an asspull. Though really does Toriyama seem like the type of writer who thinks that far ahead? Given the series we're dealing with, I think if anything the line about them maybe being aliens later gave him the idea to actually make them aliens. Hell, Goku turning into a monkey is barely foreshadowed at all, and that was obviously intended since the start. This isn't a series that does strong foreshadowing.

>>851092

Naw that's not a retcon, it's just a mistake. A retcon is continuity that is added retroactively. It's not just a contradiction, but an excuse to explain why what you used to think was wrong. Frieza blowing up the planet is a retcon in the manga because it explains that he lied about how the planet was really destroyed, so the old stuff is still canon (that Raditz told Goku meteors did it), but new info changes how we saw it (Raditz was actually lied to). But with the King Kai filler backstory, that's just a straight up contradiction because the filler people didn't think the manga would bother to cover that info and made their own version that turned out to be different. If there was some explanation for why King Kai was wrong, like say he was lying to Goku because he knew Goku would want to fight a guy as strong as Frieza, then that would be a retcon (King Kai lying) but that didn't happen so it's just a contradiction, a mistake.


 No.851301

>>851269

>I'm saying things that aren't the original intent are

But that requires you to be omniscient to know what the creator was thinking (which you're obviously not), or a pompous jackass making assumptions based on nothing more than "lol, Toriyama never planned anything, lol!" (we'll go with this one). How do you know Kami (or Goku for that matter) wasn't originally planned to be an alien? You don't.


 No.851304

>>841247

Daily reminder that broly is eternally trash


 No.851362

File: ce71d80cbcef916⋯.png (1.07 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, z.png)

>>851304

>still mad


 No.851378

File: 17afaa5ee5c68e6⋯.png (1.77 MB, 900x1620, 5:9, 1533217235936.png)

How's Broly's new film going to fare compared to the other DB films?


 No.851498

File: 5ca7fc95a573bb1⋯.png (192.57 KB, 220x338, 110:169, Episode_of_Bardock_cover.png)

File: 8c55c4ea491928b⋯.jpg (58.37 KB, 310x499, 310:499, Dbzgaidenova_.jpg)

>>851378

What a shit chart, also nice >>>/cuckchan/ filename

>Bardock, Blood Rubies, Cooler's Revenge

>not high tier

>Sleeping Princess, BoG

>not mid tier

>no super special shit tier for pics related


 No.851704

>>851301

No, what it means is that we can not always be 100% sure if something is a retcon or not. Some cases are clearer than others. But yes, the examples you gave aren't 100% certain. I think they're fairly certain, especially the Goku example, but not 100% certain.


 No.851723

>>851498

I can understand Blood Rubies not being high tier, it was objectively the worst of the 4 DB movies, with it just being a worse retelling of the First Hunt for the Dragon Balls.

Bardock I really don't get though. It's certainly better than most of the movies, and it's just a TV special. The fact the History of Trunks is in the highest tier and Bardock isn't is a crime honestly.

And Sleeping Princess deserves High Tier, honestly it's my favourite DB movie story wise and in comedy.

And holy fuck Episode of Bardock was bad.


 No.851762

>>851704

No, he is right. People generally avoid talking about author's intent because we aren't omniscient and sometime the author is just full of shit. While I doubt that Toriyama always planned for Goku to be an alien, he has never elaborated on Goku's past before. It could be that he simply didn't think that hard about it before.

Going back to Gohan being the MC. I think that Vegeta should be temporarily written out of the story. Vegeta is put into space court although let off with a slap on the wrist because of his involvement with defeating Freiza (and they haven't got record of most of what he has done). And he just does some stuff in space occasionally visiting his family. Finding someone strong enough to be Gohan's rival is going to be hard (unless they bring another alien from nowhere) but Gohan himself has gotten weaker.


 No.851768

>>851762

>That timestamp

Holy shit.

Anyway, I can't see Vegeta responding to a "space court" with anything other than mocking laughter. It would have to be composed of people actually stronger than he is for him to even consider respecting their judgement. Except pretty much everyone in their Universe is already dead. Writing him out of the story could be as simple as him wanting to take a very prominent role in being a father, which means NOT training and fighting 24/7. So if any bad shit comes up, he just tells Gohan to take care of it.


 No.851796

>>851768

>Anyway, I can't see Vegeta responding to a "space court" with anything other than mocking laughter

And the idea of a space court trying to setence Vegeta doesn't sound like the most entertaining that could happen in Dragonball?


 No.851844

File: 00d4144af15db21⋯.jpg (329.79 KB, 1200x1920, 5:8, dragonball_tranny_joke.jpg)

>>850549

>DBZ had the human characters ignore obvious power ups like learning the Spirit Bomb or Kaio-ken.

In my gay headcanon, all the humans+Piccolo learned Kaio-ken but it's still not enough to compete. No excuse for not learning Spirit Bomb, though, unless you have to be pure of heart or some shit. Even then, Gohan could use it.

He may be a good cartoonist, but Toriyama is not a good writer.


 No.851854

>>851762

If we ignore author intent then you're left with any twist being a retcon, which of course is absurd. There is a difference between a twist that is planned and something that is just changed later. However, my main point is that there's a difference between a retcon and a contradiction. A retcon is a way of adding new context to something that happened earlier in the story and thus changing our perception of it. Frieza lied to Raditz about how Planet Vegeta was blown up. Goku and Vegeta guessed incorrectly about why they de-fused the first time they used the Potara. Honestly the second retcon I'd say is a lesser one, because at first there was only a guess as to why they de-fused. However, just because it's less of a retcon doesn't mean it isn't worse. It's worse simply because it's fucking stupid and negates the gravity that using the Potara originally had.

>>851768

The only way I'd see of playing it seriously would be the Angels trying Vegeta for something, which I don't think works since they're so far beyond him they shouldn't give a shit about anything someone as insignificant as him does. Unless he were to actually become God of Destruction. Then maybe. But it's also been shown that Beerus is terrible at his job and he never gets reprimanded. So Vegeta would have to do some crazy shit to get in trouble. Unless the Angels turned out to be corrupt but I think the ship for that has sailed. Unless they're saving that arc for after Goku has already defeated Beerus. The Angels would be the next logical hurdle for him to overcome.

>>851844

>No excuse for not learning Spirit Bomb, though, unless you have to be pure of heart or some shit.

You do. Gohan and Goten could both use it, but you could argue Goten doesn't have the discipline for it. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that Krillin and Tenshinhan wouldn't be considered pure of heart by now. They've cleaned up their acts big time and now dedicate themselves to helping the world. And Piccolo became a super nice guy even before he fused with God himself. I don't know what vices any of them would still be considered to have.


 No.851860

>>851844

Isn't the problem with the Kaio-ken that it's stupidly hard to use?

Even so, Vegeta at least should have learned it.


 No.851874

>>851854

Krillen never trained under King Kai. Also I think it was up to King Kai to teach them it in the first place and let's be real they would still get bodied with it.


 No.851877

>>851874

Good point. And I suppose Piccolo, though a good guy at that point, probably wasn't completely pure yet. But Tenshinhan should have been. He should know the Genki-Dama. And everyone who trained with Kaio should know Kaio-Ken. Remember, when they died they were all stronger than Goku was when he died, and when they revived they were all stronger than Goku was when he revived. Piccolo was insanely strong and the other guys trained with Kaio much longer.

It's also bullshit that Goku doesn't teach them all his moves, like Instant Transmission. He only ever taught anybody Fusion, and even then, he should teach everyone. Though I suppose Piccolo actually does know it and doesn't even use it.


 No.852019

File: 41044e4c15c2a89⋯.jpg (727.59 KB, 1500x2100, 5:7, the_man_who_defied_the_emp….jpg)

>>851854

>If we ignore author intent then you're left with any twist being a retcon, which of course is absurd.

What I meant is most people avoid arguments that rely on author's intent. How most people differentiate from a retcon and an accidental contradiction is whether it is an accident or a deliberate contradiction of what was already established. You might ask what is the difference between this method and your method. Well first yours included non-published works by author which is usually not written down much less released. The creative process is full of retcons by your metric. Second, an accidental contraction can become a retcon if they double down on it. Third, it shifts the burden of proof to proving that it is a retcon.

>>851768

>>851854

>The only way I'd see of playing it seriously would be the Angels trying Vegeta for something, which I don't think works since they're so far beyond him they shouldn't give a shit about anything someone as insignificant as him does.

I just think that Vegeta was mostly there to protect his family and a show of power but the real reason for the trial was to investigate about a possible time travel violation which is serious enough for the GoD to get involved.

>>851874

I think that Krillin had enough time to do that but I know that he didn't. Considering that Krillin was the one that threw the first Spirit Bomb, I thought that he would have an affinity for it just like Tienshinhan had an affinity for those self-harm techniques. There was a videogame where Goku used his single day to teach Krillin the Spirit Bomb in the Future Trunks timeline.

>>851844

>In my gay headcanon, all the humans+Piccolo learned Kaio-ken but it's still not enough to compete.

The Xenoverse though so too but they changed that.

What I really bothers me is almost nobody outside the main cast remembers what happened in the original DB. Demon King Piccolo took over the world. Ma Junior declared that he is the demon king reborn and blew up a mountain. All of the energy attacks and flying. I'm going say off-screen memory erasing wish.


 No.852031

>>852019

While we are taking about the humans, the Saiyans don't need to follow any rules. Vegeta is apparently pure of heart enough to participate in the SSJG ritual while most adults aren't pure enough to ride the Nimbus cloud. SSJ needs a pure heart until it didn't. Future Trunks can use the Spirit Bomb to make a Spirit Sword with no training with much less people to kill an enemy much stronger than Majin Buu in less time. SSJ transformation in general is easier and easier to get. Saiyans getting God Ki from training or holding hands makes as much sense as someone training to get Namekian regeneration.

Back to the Spirit Bomb, Cell bragged about being able to do it and Mira blew up New Namek in DBO using it although using the voluntary energy donation variation.


 No.852035

File: 6a46bb7c02f0d8b⋯.png (617.81 KB, 630x888, 105:148, Preschoolers.png)

For basically all of Super, the fans bitched about Goten and Trunks being chronological teenagers, and yet still looking the exact same as they did when they were seven and eight years old. Literally years passed over the course of the anime between arcs, until they became fourteen and fifteen, and yet they never aged a day.

Well, Toei has heard their cries, and as a result have decided to make the kids look EVEN GODDAMN YOUNGER for the new movie! Seriously. They now look like they're five and six. Their real last names must be "Button", because they're fucking aging in reverse.

In other news, Bulma is basically a loli again. Your mileage may vary on this being good or bad.


 No.852232

File: 6884cdc516a84d5⋯.png (400.67 KB, 400x600, 2:3, ClipboardImage.png)

>>852035

>For basically all of Super, the fans bitched about Goten and Trunks being chronological teenagers, and yet still looking the exact same as they did when they were seven and eight years old. Literally years passed over the course of the anime between arcs, until they became fourteen and fifteen, and yet they never aged a day.

It is more Z-fag pandering.

>>851860

>Even so, Vegeta at least should have learned it.

Why? The only person that he asked to teach him is Whis with his the ridiculously big power gap.

>>850209

>I remember having that discussion with you a few threads ago. I still say it's absolute gold and it needs to happen.

I want to but I can't draw for shit.

What should be Gohan's rival? An Earthling, another Alien, another Saiyan, a Time-Traveler, a Demon, or whatever. Either way they would have to inexplicitly attend Gohan's school.


 No.852235

Remember

Dragon Ball > Z > Shit > Everything else


 No.852272

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>851762

>>851768

>>851796

I would imagine Vegeta going to court would look something like this.


 No.852612

File: 6e13ed750bcc4ee⋯.gif (589.48 KB, 500x375, 4:3, Nailiccolo.gif)

>>852611

All of Piccolo's fights are great, he doesn't have a single bad one.

Whether it's Nailiccolo vs Frieza or Kamiccolo vs Android 17/Imperfect Cell


 No.852662

>>852019

>Well first yours included non-published works by author which is usually not written down much less released. The creative process is full of retcons by your metric. Second, an accidental contraction can become a retcon if they double down on it. Third, it shifts the burden of proof to proving that it is a retcon.

Again, my point isn't so much about intent, but rather the fact that a retcon is new information which changes the perception of events from earlier in the story. The point is about people not misusing the word "retcon" when referring to something simply contradicting previous continuity. That's just a contradiction. That's not adding new context to stuff from earlier in the story, it's just forgetting or ignoring it.

>>852031

>Vegeta is apparently pure of heart enough to participate in the SSJG ritual while most adults aren't pure enough to ride the Nimbus cloud.

To be fair, when was the last time anyone tried to ride it? Maybe they all could by now. Krillin could use the energy from a Genki-Dama and that's also related to being pure.

>SSJ needs a pure heart until it didn't.

Vegeta was pure. PURE EVIL. Everyone else was pure anyway. Except Black, I suppose, but then you could argue the pure evil thing again, or argue that he was very sure of his convictions, sure that he was doing good, and that counts.

>SSJ transformation in general is easier and easier to get.

To be fair, this happens with seemingly impossible physical feats in real life. Like the four minute mile.

>Saiyans getting God Ki from training or holding hands makes as much sense as someone training to get Namekian regeneration.

I buy using a magic spell to get God Ki, which is what Goku did in the movie. Then the implication is that Goku is such a genius at learning new techniques that that taste of God Ki helped him learn to actually harness it at some point between that movie and the next one (plus pushing him beyond his limits like that raised his non-god ki limits as well, as we saw when he fought Beerus). Resurrection F also doesn't say how Vegeta got it but we can assume he used the same magic spell. Then the anime comes out and says Vegeta just trained for it somehow (I guess he saw Goku training to harness it after he already had it from magic, and then copied him?), and also one time mentioned that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan isn't turning Super Saiyan when you have God Ki, but is becoming a Super Saiyan God by training and not magic. Which is obviously retarded and contradicted many times and never mentioned again. So fuck it.

>>852035

>that pic

>loli

I wish




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