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File: 49de2d7b72080ba⋯.gif (3.08 MB, 400x300, 4:3, muh.gif)


I'm trying to understand something. What is it that people who say they are "mecha fans" even looking for in a mech anime? I'm not talking about the ones who are actually into the genre who has seen dozens of 70s-80s shows, but, rather, the ones who haven't. The ones who call themselves mech fans and only mentions about 5-10 titles like a few Gundams, Votoms, TTGL, Eva, and whatever recent show they can use as an example to compare these to, usually Franxx now. I know I'm not a big mecha fan like some other anons, but I've at least seen a bunch more of these shows than these people and I know that it's just toyetic robots fighting monsters with a large sense of scale. I ask because time and time again they refuse to watch the majority of the genre, the kid-focused titles, and go out of their way to find anything to complain about in shows post-Eva. I've had people complain about character designs, or how it looks like a "harem", or they don't fight enough, or they fight too much, or there's too much drama, or there's no character progression, or it's not "hot-blooded" enough, or how it looks too much like x anime, and so on. There's no room for discussion on mechanical design, animation, SF, or anything that a mech anime is even about.

So, what is it they're looking for? What can you even say to these people? I think they have a wrong idea about the genre and aren't really mecha fans, but then what are they?


In other words, what is it about the mainstream Mecha anime that attracts people not familiar with the genre? I'm just curious because I don't understand it and want to know why they're quick to call themselves fans, where the same doesn't happen in any other genre.

Sorry if I sound like a faggot in the OP.



It just seems like the mechs are a backdrop to the story and not intent. That's all I can think of.



So, you're saying they aren't really fans of the genre, but of the particular stories? Then why do they call themselves mech fans? What are they interested in in these shows that are different from what they can find in all the mecha anime they dismiss or shit on? Does my question make sense?


It's just casuals being casuals. Just like people with less than 1000 watched anime who call themselves anime fans - they are stupid normalfags.


File: fb827ef3dd64756⋯.jpg (41.75 KB, 704x396, 16:9, Gaiking.jpg)


The word I'd use is "newfags". They're only interested in two things: presentation and community interaction. Presentation is what makes any given show appealing to newfags, and it's what makes it more popular than other shows with surface similarities. A fan of TTGL is much more likely to enjoy other Gainax/Trigger shows than Gaiking or Jeeg. A fan of Votoms may like Flag, yet simultaneously be unable to get into Dougram. These mecha may be similar on the dry and technical level of design/animation/characters/topics, but they're vastly different in the manner these are presented to the viewer, which is precisely the elusive deal-breaker you're looking for.

As for the community interaction, it's simple. Your typical newfag gets into anime not because he's interested in anime itself, but because he wants to be a part of a community. His default assumption is "95% of anime is shit", thus he will only watch what's being constantly brought up. Even if he hates a popular anime, he will still watch it to participate in the discussion, to get the memes and OC people are posting. In his eyes, community interactions are more valuable than the show itself. Here lies the second deal-breaker: you can't get a constant stream of memes/OC/discussion by bringing up Gaiking or Jeeg. You also can't get peer approval, as other newfags are guaranteed to gang up and complain about Gaiking without even watching it in the first place, endlessly regurgitating the buzzword "arguments" used by their favourite youtube critic. For example, both the very notion of Eva-clones and the idea that most MOTW shows are inherently bad were forced by a single person back in the day.

Newfags are malleable. You can point their love or hate towards any direction of your choice, and they will follow if you're dedicated enough. Most of the Western viewers didn't care about LOGH or Ashita no Joe back then, and these particular shows' explosive rise in popularity happened due to the very same critical influence. Most of the Joe fans don't give a fuck about Abarenbou Rikishi Matsutarou, despite both being made by the same creator and having similar characters/topics.

Which could be extrapolated onto any other genre and even the entire medium. Self-proclaimed "fans of X" only love a small part of it, then they inevitably run out of shows with appealing presentation and fun (as they perceive it) community interactions, loudly proclaim that the industry is dead, and move on towards some other hobby. Which is why most newfags lose interest in anime in 3-5 years of active watching. 5% of anime is about ~800 shows. How many people go over that threshold? How many of those who do still love anime genuinely, without getting all bitter and critical? Here's your answer.



Thank you, this post is gold. Someone screencap this.


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File: 9a7ee90bfcee7e7⋯.png (132.25 KB, 1784x266, 892:133, Newfags_and_Mecha.png)


Agreed. Here.



>Your typical newfag gets into anime not because he's interested in anime itself, but because he wants to be a part of a community.

I think a lot of /a/nons can't understand this, because we're here despite the backlash it brings us, at least those of us here long enough to remember when people hated "weebshit". Like Knight Lamune says, we have to hold our own passions close to our hearts, and the world will revolve around us. That's how our community was formed, and people following things outside of themselves ignore things based on what people say. They don't follow their own passions based on what their own heart says.


Whenever you make threads that have zero purpose but being an elitist gatekeeper even if you're RIGHT, it's ironic to claim that normalfags' only purpose in being in their community is to be circlejerked by peers, when you literally made this thread to be circlejerked by your community. You can't say you're better than someone because they exhibit a particular behavior through performing that exact same behavior.

Please don't fucking turn this board into /v/ where all they do is bitch about the people they don't like.



People still hate "weebshit". Now we just have ironic weebs to contend with on top of that.


Well, personally I don't care that much about robots, but the mecha genre sometimes intersects with things I do like, like political space opera in Gundam's case, horrific apocalyptic shit with really cool visual designs in Eva's case, or stupid fun nonsense in TTGL's case.


>usually Franxx now.

Finding Franxx good is one of the easiest ways to spot newfags and ironic weebs. Don’t get me wrong, it was fun but ultimately dogshit.



Calling mecha a genre at all is a strange one really. Like calling any movie with a car part of the same genre.



I think you could say there's a distinct genre of car-focused films, such as Bullit, Mad Max and Drive. I don't think that comparison works too well since cars are real and the setting doesn't have to be changed to accommodate their existence.



Even there you have three distinct genres. Crime thriller, dystopian revenge movie or post-apocalyptic action, and low key character study.


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Mecha isn't a genre, so much as a qualifier. Gundam is mecha-military science fiction, Escaflowne is mecha-high fantasy romance, and Big O is mecha-future noir etc.



> Knight Lamune

It's rare to see someone who watched it. It's a shame, though. Such a great anime.



A question that rises naturally is what sets us apart? What makes one of us as opposed to the ones who get sick of a genre or medium and moves on?



> Does my question make sense?

Yes and no. For one, you're possibly conflating people with certain preferences with other people with other certain preferences and people can be picky and arbitrary—and often unreflective of this fact. I know I am extremely selective of what I watch.

>aren't really fans of the genre

As I don't watch mech anime, I don't have a clear picture of what defines mech other than gigantic robots of some type, e.g., Gundam and Zoids; if that is the case, then the genre is vast as >>915482 points out. People might want to have mechs and certain stories as qualified by the different genres mech anime can fall into. Finally, I don't see why a person has to love everything in certain genre to be a fan of it. It's like asking you if you love all types of philosophy books or every type of spicy dish.


>I don't think that comparison works too well since cars are real

Not him but I don't see that as relevant.



>Not him but I don't see that as relevant.

Because cars exist, they're present in any work that takes place on Earth in the current day. Mecha have to be accommodated, which automatically makes a work featuring them science fiction or fantasy. I think that's relevant.


A major break happens in fandom whenever one show reaches mainstream appeal: for mecha, it was Evangelion. Lots of people watched Evangelion and didn't actually care about the robots. These people then watched other mecha shows and said, "Why isn't this more like Evangelion?", and since there were a lot of them, mecha shows got really Eva-like for a while there. Eventually there were enough Eva-like shows for these people to claim they were "mecha fans" when in reality they were just Evangelion fans.

Another example? Magical girls and Madoka. There's been Madoka-likes for years now, with no end in sight.



I'm pretty sure mecha was mainstream from the very start or at the very least since Gundam.


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Giant robots beating the ever living shit out of each other. I want nothing more than gratuitous violence.

Patlabor is fucking fantastic, though. It's a cop show with robots.



It depends on what do you consider mainstream. Before Gundam mecha was strictly a genre for kids, like the most anime of that time period, but since Gundam it became extremely popular among anime otaku and mecha anime started to target adult auditory. But since Eva mecha became popular among normafags and random pigs, maybe even the most normalfag genre.



Normalfags don't really like mecha all that much though. If anything they are weirded out by it. Most of the mecha shows popular with them are popular with them for other reasons.



That ties back into >>915692 , the "Eva-like" shows are popular not because of the mecha but because of other stuff that ends up being more important than the mecha. Eventually the genre name feels like a mistake since it's not even about the mecha anyway.



Kids are the primary audience of early mecha anime, but plenty of anime otaku in the industry praise those series and see them as inspiring or influential to them.



It's natural. They basically grew on those anime, so they influenced them the same way our first anime influenced us.


File: 4af7aec7a45f6a2⋯.jpg (47.59 KB, 640x480, 4:3, [T-N]CB_Chara_Go_Nagai_Wor….jpg)


Lies. Eva merely used the classic mecha tropes that were present in the genre for decades. Then newfags who haven't seen many pre-Eva shows watched Brain Powerd/Rahxephon/Fafner/Argento Soma and in their ignorance labelled those as "Eva-likes", while all of the listed shows drew upon the same decades-old sources of inspiration as Eva.

The same could be said about Madoka. All it did has been done before, and all of the so-called "Madoka-likes" use the same old sources of inspiration Madoka itself does.


>what sets us apart?

Who said we're any different? Look at this very thread, where anons substitute their lack of first-hand knowledge with wild guesses and misinformation they've read on Wikipedia. Watch more anime and form your opinions based on personal exposure, otherwise you'll turn out like the anon above.




Naturally, mecha shows are not only about the robot, they're about the pilots, the larger war, and so on. For example, the "Real Robot" subgenre isn't purely about the robot design, it's also about how it makes the robots feel more like mass-produced military weapons than a completely unique super-weapon. This in turn lets the writers tell a different sort of story. Mazinger is different from Votoms, though both are mecha shows, yet it's completely possible to like both.

However, it's also possible to only like one specific type of mecha show, and when enough people do that to the exclusion of the rest, it warps what the genre even is. Of course, Eva did not invent all the tropes it became famous for, but it definitely brought in a ton of newfags who decided that the specific things Eva focused on were the entire point of the mecha genre in the first place. Similarly, Madoka fans decided that the point of magical girl shows was to watch the girls suffer for their magic (just like Sailor Moon fans decided fighting monsters was the point)- not a new idea in magical girl shows by any stretch, but now it's the driving force. The huge shift in fandom is normal, but the unintended side effect is the power these new fans have to dampen anything that doesn't closely adhere to their specific interests. That's where the issue is, when newer fans decide their specific flavor of show is the only one that really matters.


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>Who said we're any different?

Too blunt. You're too blunt, anon. I meant for those of us who actually get absorbed into something and search it out. What makes an otaku?

Learn some tact and try not to be so bitter, no matter how right you are. You've got to be subtle in shaming anons into learning their shit.



>However, it's also possible to only like one specific type of mecha show, and when enough people do that to the exclusion of the rest, it warps what the genre even is.

This is really what happened with Magical Girl, when you put it like that.


File: d14cae226190af3⋯.jpg (50.66 KB, 640x480, 4:3, [Shin-Getter]Invincible_Su….jpg)


I remember an interview where Tomino keeps swearing up and down that Brain Powerd was nothing like Eva, and that he was thinking of doing it before NGE even aired. Upon watching it, he decided he wanted to know what he could do with the "organic mecha" type show he thought up, and everyone jumped down his throat for no reason.

Upon watching it myself, Brain Powerd is actually nothing like Eva and I fail to see what the "fans" were even talking about.


File: 8d7bc2578b63813⋯.jpg (156.17 KB, 500x547, 500:547, The general who killed an ….jpg)


>but it definitely brought in a ton of newfags who decided that the specific things Eva focused on were the entire point of the mecha genre in the first place.

What was that thing, in Eva's case? I can't pinpoint it because it just takes from so much SF, toku, mecha, etc. and ramps up the quality to Anno levels.



From the OP:

>There's no room for discussion on mechanical design, animation, SF, or anything that a mech anime is even about.

Evangelion did not cause the death of Real Robots, but it firmly set in peoples' minds the idea that the mecha doesn't have to have to be "mechanical"/SF at all- the robots are just a way to mess around with Shinji's mental health. Yet these aren't Super Robots either- they're merely psychological tools to force issues about courage, willpower, sexuality, and other "growing up" problems. Mecha shows have of course grappled with these issues long before Eva, but the focus is overwhelmingly on the characters to the point where you have to wonder why they bothered putting in a giant robot in the first place.



> you have to wonder why they bothered putting in a giant robot in the first place.

Familiar imagery to play off people's expectations. Also being inside a giant person is a metaphor for the womb. Also it's just cool. Things are allowed to be just cool.



Also Anno likes robots and wanted robots in his robot anime. That's really how simple it is. Symbolism comes later.



That's the "just cool" part.


Here's 2 shows no one talks about from 70s/80s. Dougram and Vifam. Dougram has a great story that is realistic. Its a good power struggle over Earth's Imperial interplanetary colonialism versus an ethnic group that wants autonomy on their planet. Vifam has a great story too, and its actually about kids, not teenagers. Patlabor's movies are great too.

I don't like any modern mecha because of obvious reasons. The only modern one that is wathable is Infinite Stratos because its a short series with an okay story and a wholesome harem.



>to the point where you have to wonder why they bothered putting in a giant robot in the first place.

I can't imagine how you would tell the same story without the Eva units.



I will never, as long as I live understand the mentality described in this post. I feel like the true path to enlightenment is just watching shows that appeal to you and enjoying them on their own merits. If you watch shows their memetic value you'll pretty much only ever be let down.

Conversely, "memeability" is probably the reason trainwrecks like Chode Gayass even got popular in the first place. I honestly refuse to believe that anyone is capable of enjoying that show unironically.


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>I honestly refuse to believe that anyone is capable of enjoying that show unironically.

It's fun.



> I honestly refuse to believe that anyone is capable of enjoying that show unironically.

I enjoyed it. It's a nice modern gundam clone.



I don't distinguish between people that like mecha and just people that are really into anime. Having giant robots doesn't say a whole lot about a show, it's just a cool element that something may or may not have and still be the same thing. You could remove mecha from most of these shows without changing them a whole lot in essence. The robots are basically just sets of weapons/powers, but they allow for more creativity in design, and it has a lot of its own advantages.

The thing that makes mecha fans particularly special is that they are the original anime otaku, in a way. Gundam is the one series that made anime big and gave it its own identity, separate from just cartoons for children that more closely resemble what America would make. Gundam was the first to have obsessive, adult fans, so it basically created this hobby. Not having robots came later as an innovation. Nowadays, only a complete casual would not watch something because it has robots. The circles that focus more on mecha specifically just happen to be more obsessed with this particular element of anime and with robot designs and shit.


Removing the Evas would be more difficult because they are their own characters in a way. But really, they are giant monsters, not giant robots. I can still imagine some ways of doing it, but every way that I can think of sounds pretty retarded. I guess the best one would be combining them with the plugsuits. Suits that give the characters superpowers but are actually alive and based on alien lifeforms (I don't know much about capeshit, but kinda like Venom). They could be pretty much anything, depending on how lame you want it to be. Eva 01 could be just a purple dildo that Shinji has to stick up the angel's butt to win the battle, but it can possess him for something, and it's actually his mom, and an alien.


>trainwrecks like Chode Gayass

The trainwreck element is part of the fun. Code Geass is definitely not something you should take seriously, it's supposed to be crazy. It was a meme because it was goofy. You are technically right, though, and the environment at the time was part of what made it particularly fun, and that would never have happened if it didn't become a meme. It wasn't even unique, really, that was just a common thing at the time, really memeable shows. Haruhi would be a bigger example of that than Code Geass. Those were good times, though. Now fun is dead forever. Do you prefer that?



Code geas was one of those shows that almost everybody on the board followed. It was magical to try and predict what would happen next as Sunrise just made shit up on the fly like making Orange a major character.



>You could remove mecha from most of these shows without changing them a whole lot in essence.

You haven't seen a lot. Watch Zambot 3 and get back to me.

>Gundam was the first to have obsessive, adult fans

Wrong. Some have suggested Umi no Triton, Devilman, Yamato, or Zambot 3 to be the start of the "Otaku Age", but there's no real date. Gundam was remarkable and popular and was the first to have a sense of robot SF realism by my standards, but it was in no way the first otaku anime. Daicon 3 was made only a year after it, to give you an idea.

>Not having robots came later as an innovation.

What the fuck are you even saying? Other genres don't exist anymore?



>Now fun is dead forever. Do you prefer that?

I guess not, I do enjoy the show ironically on some level too. But it's always bugged me that that "fun" has now mutated into people unironically defending the show as a masterpiece. I just wish more people could appreciate the show for what it is rather than what it isn't.



> I do enjoy the show ironically

How is it even possible? Do you not enjoy it, but behave as if you do? Isn't it stupid?



I dislike the overall product but some of it is so bad I can't help but laugh.



That's just enjoying a shitty show for being shitty, there's nothing "ironic" about it.



So you're just arguing semantics?


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Code Geass is certainly stupid, but the melodrama of it is entertaining. The progression doesn't make sense logically, and certain developments are very contrived, but it can appeal to the emotions quite well in certain scenes. On top of that, the music and visuals are well done and add a lot to it. Even if it's good overall, it can be very enjoyable to watch.


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They're looking for political driven shows with the kamen rider format screaming power of friendship to the theme song. The reason it's not mainstream is because it's quite literally for 10 year old boys. The same reason nobody watches the Pokemon anime but Nintendo gamers. The reason mainstream mecha exist is because it's not shitty idealistic political drivel but actually fun and creative. And not something inferior to the live action power ranger show they used to watch dubbed on the telly.


File: 6e1e5ba7a7cfab4⋯.png (9.27 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Hi.png)

Make the question here since it doesnt deserves a new thread, I'm almost done with Gundam Unicorn Ova series, should I jump into the 20+ episodes release after? What are the main differences between the two?



Did you even read the OP?


I once had someone describe the core of the message of Ideon to me like this:

>Ideon is a show about the adults' exceptionally limited point of view. Ideon is a show which has enough guts to openly make fun of this point of view. Ideon teaches us to never, ever forget the child-like excitability and the sense of wonder when we grow up. This is why it's a good show. This is why it's an iconic show. Not because "lol everyone kicks the bucket, 10/10" or "lol mental suffering, 10/10" like the average modern mecha fan tends to think. The average modern mecha fan is the exact kind of adult who is being made fun of in the Ideon, and just like the characters inside the show, the real life fans are too obtuse and blinkered to understand the message.




>clear example of a narrow-minded adult

>makes shows condemning narrow-minded adults

What did he mean by this?



Lots of his anime are like that. It's due to his generation.


>Finally, there was a stigma associated with being an adult; adults were, at some level, "denied." Not only is a child's growth to adulthood seen as acquiring responsibilities, but it is also seen as the person becoming more polluted or dirty. >Hence (Mr. Okada argues), Hollywood coming-of-age movies show characters growing up and becoming mature, but Japanese culture prefers to show characters going back to the innocence of being a child. >The Japanese society post-war, then, inherited the combined heavy weight of love of now with a deep distrust of adults. >The 1960s-1970s saw this attitude in the TV anime creative staff. The products therefore placed a sort of faith or belief in children, and likewise showed the issues and problems of adulthood. >This resulted in the strange phenomenon that children's anime and manga became full of adult themes such as racism, rape, and poverty - and the adults did not mind the 10 year old kids seeing these issues.

>(When I asked Mr. Okada later for examples of these shows, he said they were too numerous to count.)


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>Code Geass is certainly stupid, but the melodrama of it is entertaining

Basically this. Of course there was added fun of shitposting on /a/ while it was running.

I completely forgot it even had mecha in it though.



Third line and onwards? Yes actually.


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Don't bother, the 20+ episodes are the OVAs chopped up for broadcast.



Define "mecha shows"

Do they have to be gigantic?

Do they have to have one or multiple pilots?

Do they have to be over the top, or do they have to be more realistic?


>How many of those who do still love anime genuinely, without getting all bitter and critical?

>If you criticize anime and don't like all of it,you''re not a real fan and don't really like anime

Meh. I can live with that.



Thanks anon, I was hoping for some fanservice of best girl trowed in there but, for the looks of it, it's not worth the fucking trouble.



>when you literally made this thread to be circlejerked by your community

It sounds more like his little brother is getting into anime, he feels threatened, and wants us to help him bully him.



It is more like that.


You're the very type of newfag I was talking about.

Anyway, I got my answer a few posts in. Most of the half-assed theories that follows is from cringey newfags themselves.



>people have to like what I like, for the reasons I like it



Who are you quoting?



Someone who seems very upset over very little



Funny, it seems to me the only one upset here is the one inventing things to quote.



>anon 1 is upset about people critcising things

>anon 2 asserts that it's okay to be critical of things

>anon 1 insults anon 2

If my interpretation of events is wrong, go ahead and explain why.


File: 004c13b35cd9141⋯.jpg (206.46 KB, 1600x600, 8:3, Heroic Age.jpg)


Remember when space Jesus was a space monkey?



Sure thing.

Anon 1 answered OPs question. Anon 2 misinterprets and misquotes something Anon 1 said. OP comes back to call Anon 2 a newfag in part to something completely unrelated. Anon 2 gets flustered and responds to bait.

If you don't enjoy anime anymore fuck off back to /v/ where you come from, but I take it I'm just misinterpreting your misinterpretation of Anon 1's point that self-proclaimed fans of a genre only actually like a select few titles, effectively making them not the obsessed fans they claim to be, like your average con-going "anime expert" who's only seen Boku no Hero and Cowboy Bebop?

I'm OP, not Anon 1, by the way. Take your time responding.



"Enjoying anime" isn't a binary thing. No one enjoys all of anime, just as no one likes all television. People like what they like. This is silliness,



The only ones saying that liking something has to be binary is you and the newfags described in Anon 1's post. You're taking the whole thing out of context and I'm replying to you this one last time out of pity.

Anon 1 was describing the phenomenon where newfags think they've seen 99% of everything good in a genre and completely ignore the rest of it, in many cases the core of it, which they would actually like if they watched. They are too hard-headed in convincing themselves that everything other than the 5 titles they've seen in a genre, or in an entire medium are the best it has to offer. They then call themselves anime experts and move on, forgetting why they even liked a thing in the first place. That's why he brings up the fact that 800 is about 5% of anime and yet not many go beyond that amount because they convince themselves those 800 are a proper sample size for the other 95%, which, again, they would enjoy a lot of if they actually watched. But, as you say, they start to think that liking something is binary. That TTGL is a literal masterpiece that invented everything and Getter Robo must be shit because they are already mecha experts who knows everything. That there's a significant difference between the points:

>Do they have to be gigantic?

>Do they have to have one or multiple pilots?

>Do they have to be over the top, or do they have to be more realistic?

When it's all mecha, yet only one or two of those points defines the entire genre for a close-minded newfag who calls themselves a mecha expert.

Again, just so you don't start making a fool out of yourself again, I'm not saying you have to like all these points in order to be a mecha fan. You have to just like mecha in order to say you like mecha, regardless of the differences. Is this difficult to comprehend? You don't have to like Eva to like Layzner, but you have to at least be able to explain why, which was the reason behind my original question in the OP. Anon 1 called them self-described experts who are actually self-inflicted newfags and that's fair enough.

You only saw

>without getting all bitter and critical?

And read that as anon saying you shouldn't criticize anime. This is like what the mass media does to defame someone they don't like. Please don't use > to quote things that aren't actually quotes. It makes you look like a newfag who doesn't belong on /a/.



When was the last really good mech show?



It has some genre elements like having some common sets of tropes, but you're largely right. Patlabor, for example, is a police procedural.


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


I see mecha as shows where the machine is as much a character as the people.

So I get annoyed when people think that mecha means giant robots only.



If you're a big UCfag, then Origin. It focuses heavily on worldbuilding and really let's you explore life in the UC before the war. It's less mecha and more drama with a few mobile weapons thrown in. It does a lot of justice to Dozel and Degwin Zabi, and reinforces Ghiren's status as a malicious actor. It also balances out the "cool heroic Quattro" by showing Char's more villainous and cunning side


>Patlabor is fucking fantastic, though. It's a cop show with robots

It's really refreshing to see an actually well done police procedural, especially considering that procedural shows have become almost synonymous with the primetime swill that boomers watch (CSI, Grey's Anatomy, and all that other kosher trash)

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