/agdg/ - Amateur Game Development General

>>25860

I'm taking the risk of making a more complex game, so I know I won't be making anything shortly, either way I don't wanna make the next undertale, I just want to sell my game enough to live on. I just know this will take a shitload of time because I pander to myself, but I still wanna finish it as fast as possible, who doesn't want to see his game completed faster? I don't want to wait half a decade to play it.

So this is what I mean, do you guys sacrifice your wealth to go full time into this hobby or accept that you need financial security and work on your game less? So far I'm pretty much on the first route, didn't learn anything to make me hireable because I was just focused on learning to make games. I want to hear someone else who I can relate too on this, if they manage to live on noodles and work on their games. But I suppose getting a decent job to save money would also be a really good option.

And I don't really think the success will depend on time, I've seen plenty of flash like games made in a few years that suck, but time sure helps if you have a decent enough idea for something.

>>25860

>become great at game programming

>What does that even mean?

I learned how to program from nothing pretty quickly, and I also looked at some basic web dev shit and it seems really easy. If I will be a web dev though I will be bored out of my mind and lose a lot of the 'programatic' thinking. Doing some silly javascript scripts is nothing compared to making a game run correctly with hundreds of things happening in it. I would just have to take a lot of time to memorize all web dev stuff to be useful, there's a lot of stuff to learn there.

>>25859

Not sure how to say this in a way that will get through to you; you will NOT make money off of game dev.

It's a pipe dream, you have a better chance of making it as a rock star. At least with music you can play gigs at a bar or something, there are no have half measures with digital goods. focus on getting your life together and keep game dev as a hobby. maybe you'll find a job you don't have and you'll have something to do in your free time.

>>25864

If you're quick learner and afraid to lose your 'programatic'???* thinking, then get into normal dev, not webdev. It has tasks several magnitudes more complex than any indie garbage out there deals with.

You don't "forget" how to program games, anon.

Plus, you're sounding kinda spoiled, what with wanting to pursue a hobby full-time instead of getting a job.

Sure, with a job you might not be able to allocate as much time to gamedev, but fuck dude, that's life. You can't just sit inside and play with your imagination all day.

>>25869

Also I might add, I'm a "professional" webdev, and I have no problems juggling both boring web "programming" and actual gamedev.

>>25867

I feel the same but I still want to have my chance at it, I don't really have other purposes in life and this is the only one that makes me excited. So it's a pipe dream but at least I feel like I have an objective to reach.

>>25868

But doesn't normal dev require much much more experience to get you hired in something, and to be very good at doing math? It will take a lot of time to be hireable at that compared to web dev, which is basically just tweaking things so it looks good. And writing the occasional interactive part of the site.

This is what I meant by losing a programatic thinking, if I would be able to get hired as a junior web dev I'd mostly just mess with html/css and some javascript or a simple framework. That means that most of your job wouldn't consist of programming, just laying out things so it looks good on a page. I'd try to get a normal dev job but I've heard you must be seriously good at what you do for someone to consider you, since for example you might get hired to make some software for a medical facility or shit like that.

>>25869

>>25870

I do want to play with my imagination all day, and I hate working normal jobs, I know how selfish it appears to want to work full time on your hobby when basically everyone in the world wants to do it, but I don't know, I still want to risk it since I really don't have much to lose. This is just what I want to do, maybe I'll fail maybe not.

The problem for me is not working a job, but figuring out if I should work a shit job that takes less time, or working a well paid job that requires that I pay almost all my attention to it. I should had just tldr's the first post and asked this "is web dev worth it/not saturated, all the memorization won't make your programming skills shit?".

I wonder if as someone who wants to keep shitting out games it would better to go in a field I'm really not interested about, just for money (web dev) so I can keep working on my game on the side. Or I should make some actual software that's not playing around with web dongs, and take more years to specialize in something like c++/c# and become good at math. So I don't have shit skills when programming.

As an alternative, I could be a burger flipper for a decade or so with the chance of killing myself because no one sane would do it for so long, BUT I could on the side have my hobby as a free time job. If I work like that I don't have to devote any time at home to keep up with the latest web dev technologies, I could just focus 100% on my game and forget about making myself hireable.

I just wonder, how many of you guys have programming related jobs here, or you do something completely unrelated to gamedev to make a living (that also took your time to learn)?

>>25874

>But doesn't normal dev require much much more experience to get you hired in something, and to be very good at doing math?

For a junior position, no, not really, but you need to know your basics well.

>for example you might get hired to make some software for a medical facility or shit like that

Most likely if you're inexpeirenced, you won't get an important position. People who are going to hire you aren't retarded. Not to mention that jobs related to life-critical systems are a minority.

But yes, as with all 9-5 jobs it'll consume large amount of your free time. And yes, even with normal dev job you'll learn skills that are probably unrelated to gamedev.

>I just wonder, how many of you guys have programming related jobs here, or you do something completely unrelated to gamedev to make a living (that also took your time to learn)?

I'm a professional "normal" dev. To be honest, I got into that dev thing because of videogames, but I've stayed for programming itself, and while I still enjoy the idea of making games as a form of self-expression, I find the process nearly revolting in comparison to "normal" development. Most gamedev tools, libraries and frameworks are horrible, and if I want to stick to traditional tools then I have to write a lot of boilerplate code that's not creative or fun in any way. I'm also bad at art so my motivation to actually make games is miniscule, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

>>25874

yeah, I expected as much. I've spoken to people who commit themselves to follow some unrealistic passion in real life, it's pretty much impossible to convince them otherwise, and it usually ends with them living in a van deluding themselves that it was worth it. so good luck I guess, just don't kid yourself, you're not making a realistic or responsible life choice here, you're just looking for someone to pat your back while you push reality down the road a few years.

for the other stuff, freelance web dev is most probably dieing off, not going to bother finding the research to back it up, but companies like square space are replacing the need for what amateurs can pull off.

"programmatic thinking" isn't a thing, you don't forgot how to speak English by learning another language, that's not how it works, I think you're just making more excuses.

you barley need to know how to program to make games anymore with the engines available. you still need talent for art, sound, writing, and then game design itself.

> It's a hard decision because when I'm working on my game I already have to learn how to make music, program, draw, and all the other shit

Okay, you can't make music, program, draw, and do "all the other shit," and expect to make a product that will sell well while working an 8-hour-job. You have to find some people with whom you can work, at least an artist or programmer. You could probably get music for cheap or free if you're not too picky.

> Are you guys also into a shit situation like this, did you get out of it?

Of course not. AGDG is a pastime. If you don't have the time or money to back it up, then don't do it.

Well, thanks guys. You just convinced me to prove all of you wrong that I can do all the assets and programming for my game, while I learn web dev to get a job, while working some shitty random job. I'll save money from web dev, take a few years as breaks to work and learn on my game and I'll post back, I'll either die from no sleep or kill myself out of shame. See you then!

>>25921

Glad you came to that conclusion! I'm sure you'll succeed, and you certainly won't end up as this guy from 7:06! https://youtu.be/-zNbLMC274s?t=7m06s

>>25923

Jokes on you, I'll never reach the age of 50 in this way!

Game dev is not a way out. It's a hobby.

I was in a similar spot, with bad family, schooling going tits-up because of the stress and mental problems, I even have a big self-injury scar from that time. Game dev is just not the way out. It's not a job. It does not make money. It does not feed or clothe you.

Get a real job. I don't know what the job market is like in your area, but I can almost guarantee that game development is not so big that they want you as you are. I live in Montreal, with all its high tech industry, and had to join the military to make ends meet. You may not need something so drastic it's not that drastic and is actually pretty sweet but whatever around that will get you an apartment in a safe space where you can catch your breath and sleep soundly, fucking take it. Wash dishes, shovel poop, whatever. It won't be games. Games are for fun. People won't pay you for fun.

If you really love game dev, you'll find time for it just because it's your kind of play. But you probably love shelter and food more, and those things are harder to get and are more necessary to other things, so get a fucking job. Unless you live in another state from your place of business, you should have time for hobbies, which should include game dev if you're here in /agdg/ (as opposed to /int/ or /k/ or /cyber/ or /furry/ or whatever)

>>25940

Game dev will be a job for me, I'm not delusional, I believe that if you put a lot of practice into everything something good comes out of it. Even the flashiest flash dev would be making some money after 10 years of making flash games. I just realize that at the moment I'm still at the beginning and it will take me too so much time that I need a stable job to survive until then.

Not because I'm too great for minimum wage jobs, but because minimum wage jobs don't allow you to save money if shit goes down. And that can be anything, losing your job and having no savings, fixing an expensive part in my PC, some huge health problem. It's doable and if you have no other option, then you just must take it. But I'm just saying it ruins your character because you are too stressed out to make games, and to come up with great ideas and learn everything in the process.

I'm just gonna put a few hours a day, even 3 or 4 to learn something that makes me hireable as a web developer since that's the easiest thing to get into, and still work on my game for 2 or 3 hours. I'll just sacrifice some sleep since I do this while working a normal (shitty) job, it sucks but I don't think this is impossible as people seem to make it. I only got even more motivation to wake up earlier because I got no sympathy for my situation.

I'll manage to get a programming job somehow in a year or so, with some self sacrifice, and then I can save up a lot of money from that to work on my game full time. So basically my conclusion from this thread is that yeah, getting stable is the way, it's really terrible to be fucked financially, you have no time to think about deving, only about having something to eat. So I'll focus almost all my time on getting stable, and work a bit on the side on the game. Gonna try to go stable and put game making on a lower priority for now.

>>25890

what does "go stable" even mean for you?

>>26030

you rush stables and them kill him with knight push you noob

>>26039

Enjoy my pikemen, fag

>>26042

my attack helicopters already got those

>>25944

Dude you didn't listen at all but w/e enjoy your impending homelessness

>>26082

I did listen to some advice, and also to my own. Before I wanted to fully try to work on my game no matter what while I work shitty low wage jobs, high chance of being fired and being homeless here. My final decision was to put at least 60% of my time into learning something that makes me hireable as a programmer (probably webdev) while I still work on the game but much less. It's a balance and maybe in a year or two I can have some slightly better paid job as a programmer while I have dev'd a bit on the game.

>>26085

actually, if your still dead set on working as an indie dev, you probably want to watch this talk as well. there are a number of talks and books about how making it interdependently in any industry is harder than it looks but this is the most strait forward one I've seen that's specifically about games.