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Revolt. Agitate. Organize. Educate. Board Guidelines

File: 1414367508922.jpg (5.02 KB, 200x175, 8:7, stirnerrrrrrr.jpg)

4a7b69 No.3893

Any Individualist Anarchists on here?

a611de No.3946

>>3893
Me, I don't like taking part in communism or capitalism.

a048a3 No.3947

>>3946
checking in to say individualist anarchists still believe in communism, just for different reasons to normal anarchists

a42653 No.3951

Egoist Anarchist here. All things are nothing to me.

00588a No.3952

>>3946
>no capitalism nor communism
How would society organize its resources then?

a611de No.3954

>>3952
Probably syndicalism, I will share shit when I want to and I have no capitalist boss.

21e947 No.3959

>>3952
By not considering the Earth to be 'society's' resources, and realizing that we humans are a resource of the Earth.

e712f0 No.3960

>>3959
Please don't. Look I'm all for being ecological and nature-friendly and all that but please don't try to turn anarchy into a new-age hippie movement. Just don't.

4a7b69 No.3964

>>3947
> individualist anarchists still believe in communism

How exactly? I certainly don't

1f3bba No.3967

>>3960
What's wrong with hippies and new-agers again?

7afd74 No.4687

>>3952
Anarchist / Individualist here. I think that the people will gather on a weekly/monthly basis and decide together how to solve current problems, one of them being the management of ressources. So we can not really know how would an anarchist society will look like, it will depends on the people who implement it.

c45a47 No.4689

File: 1416237074524.gif (1.28 MB, 480x384, 5:4, 1411183432824.gif)

>>3951
But isn't things being nothing to you, something to you?

85b8f0 No.4690


3af744 No.4693

>>4690
I've read it about 3 years ago
TL;DR version:
Communism is the fullest expression of egoism rather than being at odds with it as taught in capitalist thought. Altruism and egoism in their purest forms are essentially the same thing. Ayn Rand is a shithead who knows nothing about the ego.

ae83ce No.4701

>>4693
> Altruism and egoism in their purest forms are essentially the same thing.
Explain please

0e2ce1 No.4705

Individualist Nihlist reporting in.

3af744 No.4717

>>4701
If you want to understand it read the damn thing

dd5841 No.4721

Anarchist without Adjectives, with an individualist streak, reporting. I always wish we were more willing to work with each other, at least in public. Is there any way we could have an organization with a platform we could print on a single leaflet? Something that allows for people to live together in whatever arrangement they choose, to be justified through any of the thousands of unique ways each individual needs to rationalize their situation? Something where, regardless of that explanation, there is a practical freedom to achieve your highest potential without the reasonable threat of violence?

10fdcd No.4730

Individualist Anarchist here, I believe that it is need an
individual freedom to get a "collective freedom", just when your internal fight is over you could really fight what's outside.

c3b829 No.4776

>>3959
Earth is just an oversized asteroid, literally just a wad of iron-nickel slightly dusted with tiny traces of other elements. It has no purpose nor purposes itself.
>>4693
Stirner already called bullshit on communism though.

66df39 No.4778

>>3893

Interesting that you use a pic of Max Stirner. He advocated anarcho-communism. He was not an individualist anarchist.

Egoism is not the same as individualist anarchism. Egoism is the position that all rights and morals are "spooks", and the individual should instead pursue what's best for themselves with a clear mind.

This doesn't actually necessitate any particular philosophy. Stirner also promoted anarcho-communism, but you could just as easily be a fascist and an egoist, or any other ideology and an egoist.

66df39 No.4779

>>4778
(cont)

Stirner was an Egoist who felt it fit his self-interest to be an anarcho-communist. Egoists can be collectivists is my point.

4a7b69 No.4788

>>4778
>He was not an individualist anarchist.

690d46 No.5350

>>3952
Market socialism maybe?

eed148 No.5386

>>4778
This is actually true if you take the definition of Individualist Anarchism to mean the broad term for market anarchists. Egoism and Individualism, in anarchist terminology, are two very different things.

And yes, Stirner's economical model of a Union of Egos, despite what many ignorant anarcho-communists who have never read Stirner actually believe, is a form of anarchism. Better yet, it represents a striving for preserving the value of the individual while also acknowledging that the only way for anything to get done without an individual Ego trampling all over other Egos is to come together out of mutual interests and work together in a sort of communism. Stirner was also a big influence on Emma Goldman - an anarcho-communist, I believe.

There's an interesting piece written by some anarchist collective awhile back that focuses on Stirner's Egoism and how it should be applied in an anarcho-communist scenario:

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/for-ourselves-the-right-to-be-greedy-theses-on-the-practical-necessity-of-demanding-everything

eed148 No.5387

>>5386
*a form of communism

eed148 No.5388

>>5386
>>5387
If I may also add another point that comes from elsewhere:

The existence of Capital is just as much of a hindrance on the individual as the existence of the State is. Capital creates an economic system where success does not equal individual greatness; success in Capitalism comes from a combination of luck, cheating, and privilege. In a communist economic model, on the other hand, all individuals are already placed on equal grounds since no one is supposed to have any more or less access to resources than anyone else. In such a society, what sets individuals apart and defines their success is their greatness - excellence in the arts, the sciences, philosophy, or virtuous deeds. This is why any anarchist who wants to preserve Capital but claims to be an "individualist" is actually just abusing a term that sounds appealing, just as America officially endorses individualism but in reality only endorses selfish dependence on material goods, which leads to subservience.

By the way, I believe that point comes from Insurrectionists. So knowing this board that very fact will probably invalidate everything I said.

c3b829 No.5470

>>5386
Union was 1 of 3 relationships he described: bond, property, and union. He wasn't advocating anything systematic and impersonal since that's represent a reification and would be a bond not a union. Basically, he's describing what bands used to most be. You could call it a clique, but that's too rules-bound. You know we didn't evolve in tribes? Kinda explains why celebrity and politics get so fucked up so quickly. We didn't evolve for them, so they stick the stupid as "larger than life" in a very deep sense (depth of shallow, heh…).
http://i-studies.com/journal/n/html/paper.shtml#union

"He who is infatuated with 'Man' leaves persons out of account so far as that infatuation extends, and floats in an ideal, sacred interest. Man, you see, is not a person, but an ideal, a spook."

c3b829 No.5471

>>5388
Thus communism is worse… Capitalism gives you a chance. Communism denies it forever. You're describing fucking popularity as "greatness". I don't want popularity among LCD totalitarian parasitism; I want power over my self and my ends, duh.

eed148 No.5481

>>5471
>Capitalism gives you a chance
You don't belong on this board if you seriously believe that.

Also, you didn't actually criticize anything I said. You're just asserting Capitalism gives you a chance, Communism denies it, that I'm saying popularity=greatness, that Communism=totalitarianism (again, you don't belong on the board if you believe this). These are all both fucking irrelevant and not back up by sound reasoning.

If anything, one is more likely in a Capitalist society to subsist on mere popularity rather than actual achievements. In a Capitalist society, with the poisonous culture it creates, the individual is only valued insofar as the individual is greedy. What is interesting, new, challenging, different, etc. goes out of favor because such things typically aren't profitable, and therefore under Capitalism don't constitute success; what is in favor under Capitalism is what is the most profitable, and the more the masses can be manipulated into liking you the most for no good reason (i.e. Most corporations, who make shit, overpriced products but are able to subsist simply by being known), the more they can be exploited and you can continue to sell them shit that has no real usefulness, redeeming qualities, innovation, etc.

That would be popularity. A communist economy takes all this away and makes it such that the individual must rely only talents that actually matter in a real, non-Capitalist environment if they are to actually win their individualism. That's the point I was making, with respect to how Stirner and his followers essentially believe in a communist economic model, and why it is in fact compatible with their focus on the importance of the individual.

And regarding your point about Capitalism giving you a "chance": when you say Capitalism gives you a "chance", when you say it gives you power over yourself and your own ends, you are only buying into the official image of Capitalism. Think about the chance you have at attaining success in a Capitalist society. Think of all the people, for instance, who are very talented and intelligent individuals who never attained "success" in your society; think also of all the people in your society who aren't intelligent, talented, or useful to society at all, yet have attained "success" (having money and notoriety [read: "popularity"]) through luck, through connections, through privileges. The whole thing about Capitalism giving you a chance and you just need to WORK HURD AND PULL URSELF UP BY UR BOOTSTRAHPS is bullshit - it's a myth taught to you in gradeschool so you will continue to chase the carrot on the stick by doing your part in the system as a wage slave. Hard work is certainly important in everything you do, but in Capitalism the so-called "chance" you have is just that: chance.

In Capitalism, everything is a numbers-game, and there is simply no way around the numbers unless you cheat the system or get lucky. If this is the "chance" you mean, then yes, a communist system dispenses with chance altogether; in a communist economic system, everyone is guaranteed the resources they need. As such, individuals are free to pursue their passions without the needless constraints of Capitalist prerogatives like "DOING UR PART 4 SOCIETY" (read: holding up the system on your back so the people above you have less weight themselves to carry) by producing wealth. One of the Capitalist myths is that one who does what they love for their job will never work a day in their lives, but in a communist economic model, no one is denied the possibility of doing what they love every day of their lives.

I mean, this is the ideal version of a communist economic model, but the reasoning I've heard behind how this could work without presupposing that we've reached a state in civilization where we have an abundance of resources easily-accessible and no one needs to work (which, arguably, is already true if you consider how much labor and money is wasted producing useless consumer shit) is that the jobs that need to get done in any society will naturally be filled in by people who are willing to do them rather than forced to do them because they need to make money to survive. Not everyone, after all, is going to want to pursue the life of a philosopher, an artist, a scientist, or an athlete; different people enjoy doing different things.

eed148 No.5482

>>5481
My point about Communism=totalitarianism was also that what you're thinking of when you say this is Soviet-style "communist" states. No anarchist - hell, not even most Marxists - would tell you that this is an example of Communism. Communism by definition lacks a State. Marx himself envisioned that under a communist economic model, the State is supposed to die off because it's no longer needed. Obviously this would never happen, though.

c3b829 No.5618

>>5481
Communism doesn't have a price structure. There's no pay or reward system. Most people would be parasites feeding off a few making the whole commune possible. At best, they'd be trained monkeys yet riding on their betters who fare no better for hosting them. The only way out of that is to leave the commune and hope they don't follow.

Stirner didn't believe in communism. He explicitly bashed it.

"Communism, by the abolition of all personal property, only presses me back still more into dependence on another, viz., on the generality or collectivity; and, loudly as it always attacks the "State," what it intends is itself again a State, a status, a condition hindering my free movement, a sovereign power over me."

49cb14 No.5621

>>5481
The real question is, suppose anarcho-communism(not primitive communism) fails in practice, let's say because most people want to become mutualists, syndicalists, individualists etc, would you accept it or would you turn to fascism just because people don't want/think your ideology i.e anarcho-communism is the best suited for humans and then anarcho-communism fails just because of a lack of participation from one or more important areas of production.

85b8f0 No.5622


c3b829 No.5638

>>5622
Great, completely ignore that Stirner had no problem with bond or property, just with being on the wrong side of the relation. Also, Stirner notoriously had no ethical position. He was meta-ethically a moral error theorist and a bit of expressivist. Marx hated him. Engles liked him initially, till his master smacked him down and gave him different marching orders. Stirner haunted Marx into his grave because he had nothing but his precious fallacies to answer egoism's annihilation of collectivism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Stirner#Marx_and_Engels

4356c0 No.5883

Can anybody tell me what heautontimorumenoses means? It's in The Ego and His Own (heautontimorumenen in German).

233612 No.5885

>>3947
not necessarily. i sure as shit don't believe in communism

0a319c No.5910


ccba8c No.5945

>>3960
>implying that hippies are a bad thing
the only bad thing about hippies is they are often soft pushovers who wont do much to stick up for what they believe in.

efa220 No.5960

>>5638
/thread

61f4ec No.8553

>>4778
It's not the same, but a form of individualist anarchism.

5efef5 No.8554

>>3952

However they want to, I will be living in my hut in the mountanis, enjoying peace and shooting anyone who comes near.


7afd74 No.8582

>>3893

New board : >>/stirner/.


cc4955 No.8758

"Morality is incompatible with egoism, because the former does not allow validity to me, but only to the Man in me. But, if the State is a society of men, not a union of egos each of whom has only himself before his eyes, then it cannot last without morality, and must insist on morality. Therefore we two, the State and I, are enemies. I, the egoist, have not at heart the welfare of this “human society,” I sacrifice nothing to it, I only utilize it; but to be able to utilize it completely I transform it rather into my property and my creature; i. e., I annihilate it, and form in its place the Union of Egoists."

Someone explain how this is fucking communism.


cc4955 No.8759

>4717

I've read it, must have missed the point where altruism and egoism are one in the same.


ca7e90 No.8764

>>8758

>Someone explain how this is fucking communism.

Easy, its not.


000000 No.8766

i dony know but

>>>/leftypol/

we need yourhelp

please


98102e No.8799

>>3952

>individualist anarchist

>caring about the good of the "society"


98102e No.8801

>>5622

stop shilling your neo-statism here, down with the communism


38a2b5 No.8808

>>8801

>>8803

Go fuck yourself, you and your subjective values do not hold a copyright on anarchist discussion.


43c372 No.8819

Egoist nihilist reporting in


80fba3 No.8825

>>3960

>guilt by association


80fba3 No.8826

>>5471

>Capitalism gives you a chance

>>5388

>Capitalism comes from a combination of luck, cheating, and privilege

>Capitalism…luck

>[luck] gives you a chance

>[chance] gives you a chance

>chance gives you a chance

>>5471

…shit, you're right!


67f7cc No.9488

Post left anarchist here, I am on the same page as Bob Black on most things and could be described as a Nihilst/Egoist Anarcho Communist. I think this piece puts a good argument for communism in egoistic terms, pretty to the point.

http://www.primitivism.com/abolition.htm


b418ca No.9495

>>9488

Are you me? Post-left anarchy was how I got into anarchism - mostly because I started off as a right wing lolbertarian and was too scared to admit that I had been drawn by the allure of the left kek, but in my mind they're some of the best stuff happening in modern anarchist theory even though I still love old school anarcho-communism.

Read anything by Aragorn?


ae7493 No.9504

…is belonging to no one and being one’s

own

possession

>>3960

> Look I'm all for being ecological and nature-friendly and all that

> but please don't try to turn anarchy into a new-age hippie movement.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualist_anarchism#France

> “From the legacy of Proudhon and Stirner there emerged a strong

> tradition of French individualist anarchism. An early important

> individualist anarchist was Anselme Bellegarrigue. Catalan historian

> of individualist anarchism Xavier Diez reports that during his

> travels in the United States "he at least contacted (Henry David)

> Thoreau and, probably (Josiah) Warren."” (Xavier Diez. El anarquismo

> individualista en España (1923–1938). Virus

> editorial. Barcelona. 2007. p. 60)




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