/anarcho/ - Anarchism Board

>>8093

Sociology, environmental engineering, free software, renewable energy, legal defense, recycling, writing, lecturing…

Definitely don't work to have "revolutionary potential", to "raise consciousness", or to "promote worker action" in "industrial jobs and otherwise traditional and popular prole occupations." (>>5693, >>5695, >>5697)

>>9463

>anarchists should focus on becoming ivory tower intellectuals instead of regular working class people

>>9464

Everyone has to work whether or not they wear overalls. "regular working class people" might say you're full of shit if you choose to work beneath your ability for the sake of anarchism.

>>9468

Not everyone has to work. That's patently not true. Even then, not all work is equal. And by that I mean not that there is some 'inferior' manual work and some 'superior' intellectual work, but rather, there is productive and unproductive work.

>Is it necessary to repeat here the irrefutable arguments of Socialism which no bourgeois economist has yet succeeded in disproving? What is property, what is capital in their present form? For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working. And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilized by labor - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both. Note that I have left out of account altogether the following question: In what way did property and capital ever fall into the hands of their present owners? This is a question which, when envisaged from the points of view of history, logic, and justice, cannot be answered in any other way but one which would serve as an indictment against the present owners. I shall therefore confine myself here to the statement that property owners and capitalists, inasmuch as they live not by their own productive labor but by getting land rent, house rent, interest upon their capital, or by speculation on land, buildings, and capital, or by the commercial and industrial exploitation of the manual labor of the proletariat, all live at the expense of the proletariat. (Speculation and exploitation no doubt also constitute a sort of labor, but altogether non-productive labor.)

The idea that intellectuals are some form of superior working ability is a bourgeois myth. Their job is, for the most part, to sustain the bourgeois system of exploitation.

>>9469

Work is work whether it's for a capitalist or deemed "productive" by a socialist. If an academic criticizes the system and makes you want to read her book, then why should she have found a productive job instead? Most of the productive jobs went overseas.

>>9470

>Work is work whether it's for a capitalist or deemed "productive" by a socialist.

You are naturalizing capitalism the same way that statists try to naturalize the state.

>If an academic criticizes the system and makes you want to read her book, then why should she have found a productive job instead?

Many a working class people have produced books that criticize the system, and even better offer actual working class perspectives that you can assimilate, and, more importantly, share and spread.

I mean, of course there are exceptions, but academia is largely a wanking fest for people who think that by being pompous and unapproachable they are making the world better.

>Most of the productive jobs went overseas.

Overseas of where? How narcissistic do you have to be to believe that the anarchist movement should limit itself to the prospects of your given locality or country?

Not that it really matters in this case because 'there are no more working class peeps no more' is another bourgeois myth. There are plenty of productive jobs almost everywhere.

>>9471

So the revolution is at the point of production?

>>9472

Primarily.

>>9472

Pretty much

>>9473, >>9481

And revolution is all important?

The Arab spring was totally made by factory workers.

>>9483

the Arab spring wasn't a revolution. It failed to replace any of the old regimes and in some situations made things a lot worse off.

>>9485

So if we can get production jobs, we can replace regimes.

>>9486

Not quite.

You see, if the workers who work the mean of production take control then the regimes have no way of sustaining themselves, they have no way of controlling the population other than through force and controlling the flow of good, but if the people make what they need themselves instead of relying on the regimes to provide for them then the regimes loose their grip on the people and eventually the ability to pay those who enforce the regimes orders.

You see, the regimes don't actually make anything, they are essentially parasites who take what they want and dictate to the population what to do and what to make, the same is true in any capitalist state or "socialist' state, if you take away the means of production from those who want to control the population then those in power loose their power.

>>9489

>the regimes have no way of … controlling the population other than through force….

Frankly, this seems like the only accurate part of your reply.

The "people" probably don't need most goods. Much of the economy likely exists to keep the population under control and to keep them hooked on the commodity fetish.

States resort to tyranny, massive incarceration, and torture before losing to syndicalism.

>>9490

I don't think you understand what i mean by "good". By goods it is implied that when the workers take over the means of production they probably arnt gonna be making porches and other useless commodity's.

>States resort to tyranny, massive incarceration, and torture before losing to syndicalism.

Which is exactly why the workers need to arm themselves and fight against those who want to push them back into wage slavery.

>>9491

So anarchists should find factories that make useful goods and get jobs in them even if they can study society, critique society, build environmental goods, write free software, build wind mills, build solar power, aid people caught in the justice system, or teach people about social critiques because none of this other work is "productive". Got it.

>>9493

>study society, critique society

It wont help anyone but the intellectuals. But if it helps i see no reason why not to do it.

>build environmental goods, write free software, build wind mills, build solar power

No, anarchists SHOULD do all the all that stuff, its controlling the means of production and creating something beneficial at the hands of the workers for the workers themselves.

>aid people caught in the justice system, or teach people about social critiques

Still things anarchists do and should do.

>because none of this other work is "productive". Got it.

I cant tell if your trying to be a cunt or legitimately have no clue what your talking about.