The Iron Cross and Heathenism

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File: 1437263986676.jpg (50.48 KB, 566x800, 283:400, Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J154….jpg)

The Iron Cross and Heathenism Asatruar 07/18/15 (Sat) 23:59:43 No.6628

As a pan-Germanic nationalist and national socialist, the Eisenkreuz as an order and as a symbol of Germanic strength and sacrifice retain a significant amount of importance to me. However, the origins of the design of the symbol present a pretty clear conflict of interest with heathenism. Do you think it's appropriate to hold it in reverence in the context of your Asatru faith, even without doing so in a religious manner? Should it be seen as it's own symbol, adopted by the times into it's own meaning, or does the inherent Christian symbolism override that?

Asatruar 07/19/15 (Sun) 03:52:23 No.6630

No it is germanic

Asatruar 07/19/15 (Sun) 16:57:53 No.6636

It is a pre-christian symbol that was turned christian later on

Just look at sun-crosses or other ancient symbols

It was also a pagan symbol among the baltic tribes

Asatruar 07/19/15 (Sun) 21:16:31 No.6644

>>6636

I was under the impression that the earliest versions of it were a variation on the cross of the Kingdom of Jerusalem given to the Teutonic Knights.

Asatruar 07/20/15 (Mon) 07:27:41 No.6653

>>6644

Like anything 'christian' it's plagiarised/usurped from real religions and cultures

Asatruar 07/20/15 (Mon) 10:42:43 No.6655

File: 1437388963631.jpg (34.79 KB, 400x243, 400:243, Teutonic.jpg)

>>6644

This.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cross_%28Teutonic_Order%29

The Black Cross has been the symbol of the Teutonic Order from the 12th century to present.[1] It is the predecessor to the Iron Cross that originated in 1219 when the Kingdom of Jerusalem granted the Teutonic Order the right to combine the Teutonic Black Cross placed above a silver Cross of Jerusalem.[1]

>>6653

Can you prove it, or are you just talking from your feels?

>inb4 b-but it looks kinda like a sun cross without the circle so I'm 100% certain it was appropriated by dem ebil christians

Asatruar 07/20/15 (Mon) 23:44:55 No.6671

I heard it originates from the sun cross in some documentary.

Asatruar 07/22/15 (Wed) 05:36:37 No.6695

File: 1437543397800.jpg (45.07 KB, 476x490, 34:35, Welschingen-B.jpg)

>>6655

This picture is of a bracteate found from the pre-Christian era. It depicts a female goddess, probably Frigga, holding two staves with iron crosses on the top

Eat shit Christ-shill

Asatruar 07/22/15 (Wed) 08:59:20 No.6696

File: 1437555560516.jpg (27.11 KB, 320x297, 320:297, stele.jpg)

>>6695

It should already be obvious that a simple emblem like a cross would be found among several cultures, so it doesn't necessarily mean it was "plagiarised/usurped from real religions and cultures", although syncretism was the norm among pagans. By using your own logic I could say it was the Germanic tribes who 'usurped' it from the Greek Christians of the 4th century (B-bracteates are dated to the 5th and 6th centuries), if not from the ancient Semites, but since there's no proof I wouldn't say something so fatuous.

Asatruar 07/22/15 (Wed) 09:29:12 No.6697

>>6696

I never said it was usurped from Paganism into being a Christian symbol, that was the other poster. Stop manipulating my words so that you can avoid the issue; the original question was "Is the iron cross a Pagan/Germanic symbol?"

I have provided proof the answer is yes, I am not amused with your dancing of words, moving on.

Also not to mention, the earliest crucifixes found in the Germanic world have all been in the shape of an Iron Cross. So yes, it was a syncretic effort where the old pagan symbols were given a new Christian meaning. That's what most of European art and culture is. Even all your depictions of angels come from Roman artistic motifs, the actual Biblical angels sound like acid-induced mindfucks (albeit they are one of the most based things in that big Jew tome, I will admit)

Asatruar 07/22/15 (Wed) 10:32:22 No.6700

File: 1437561151765.jpg (93.79 KB, 408x640, 51:80, 1418168290263.jpg)

>>6697

>I never said it was usurped from Paganism into being a Christian symbol, that was the other poster.

>I am not amused with your dancing of words

I asked that poster the question, if you're going to reply the least you could have done was start off with "not that anon but.."

> the original question was "Is the iron cross a Pagan/Germanic symbol?"

That wasn't the original question, although even if I were a pagan I would acknowledge that the Eisenkreuz used by the modern Germans had a Christian origin, and probably wasn't based on the earlier Germanic version.

>Also not to mention, the earliest crucifixes found in the Germanic world have all been in the shape of an Iron Cross.

Source? I think you mean crosses*.

>So yes, it was a syncretic effort where the old pagan symbols were given a new Christian meaning. That's what most of European art and culture is. Even all your depictions of angels come from Roman artistic motifs, the actual Biblical angels sound like acid-induced mindfucks (albeit they are one of the most based things in that big Jew tome, I will admit)

I don't deny that such syncretism took place, but it's simplistic to assume that all our practices and symbols were based on it (as that other anon claimed).

Asatruar 07/23/15 (Thu) 07:25:09 No.6716

File: 1437636309450-0.jpg (128.13 KB, 680x1024, 85:128, Crucifix_pendant_15.jpg)

File: 1437636309451-1.jpg (30.77 KB, 255x256, 255:256, vikingcross.jpg)

>>6700

Here's the crucifixes you asked for

> it's simplistic to assume that all our practices and symbols were based on it

Yes, you are correct, the ones that did not come from Germanic or Celtic symbolism, or teachings that were based off Socratic philosophy, are based on Jewish stories and symbolism :^)

Even your cross is really a Roman symbol when you consider it was their favorite form of execution.