/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

>>7495

Aside from the commercialism, I think they are awesome and probably one of the most organized groups in Asatru

>I even had one of them tell me that I couldn't practice the faith of my Ancestors because I lived in America and because I was half Anglo-Saxon

Maybe they were being sarcastic on account of you being folkisch? I'm an Indian who lives in India and so far I haven't been targeted with any such comments from them

>>7496

>Currynigger likes the most Universalist Asatru group out there

Not big surprise

>>7495

Relevant thread:

www.8ch.net/asatru/res/6726.html

>>7496

>Maybe they were being sarcastic on account of you being folkisch?

Seems that they are just filthy marxists. Also, please post a picture of you with some Nordic/Germanic paganism symbols. I want to laugh.

I don't care for any other organizations other than national socialist ones that incorporate Nordic/Germanic paganism.

>>7499

Takk fyrir, kinsman. It seems that you all made plenty of valid observations of NORSKK, and some of them made me laugh hardily at that.

As a new comer here I hope to become more active.

Skál.

>>7496

I'm curious as to what draws you to Asatru rather than the gods of your own ancestors in Hinduism.

I have a Hindu friend whom I love discussing the similarities and differences of our respective religious views with. However we'd never try to convert one another because we understand that we both have our own ancestors and own folkway.

>>7507

Who's to say one can't be initiated into both Hinduism and Asatru? Many Europeans explorers like Alexandra-Neel studied and practiced many spiritual paradigms, and the Tibetan monks didn't have any problem initiating her even though she was a female. One of my American friends who's a big influence on me has been iniated into several systems, Kaballah because he is maternally Jewish, he learned Goetia at age 9, has seen the Brahmin tablets, and also legitimately learned the Native American folkway. I practice the Geomancy of the Arabs because my spirit favors this divination the most. For humanity this is what the spiritual future will look like as now it is virtually impossible to go on without being influenced by foreign paradigms, even if it's in some little way. Many European pagans, especially those who practice Rodnovery, have already acknowledged that they are cut off from the fullness of their system and naturally borrow from Hinduism, and there's nothing wrong with that either. The irony is when Asatruar who have been stripped of the bulk of their treasures attempt to fight away people who would help in making them rich.

I think the cause for the anger that the Asatruar on this board feel towards me is rooted in misunderstanding. The fact is that God's manifestation varies depending on the plane of existance. At the highest plane there is only one God, and at the lowest there are trillions upon trillions of gods. In traditional society this corresponded to the classes/castes as the highest caste knew of one God (even if they didn't admit it to lower caste friends), and the lower you went on the caste ladder the more gods and spiritual beings you'd find. These manifestations would intermingle with the cultural soul of various peoples, and thus you'd find the essence of Thor in Rudra and Tlaloc of the Aztecs. For serious spiritual development it is paramount that we realize this, but losing track of the nature of God and becoming obsessed with the substance of gods while ignoring the underlying essence is like falling into the abyss.

>>7510

>At the highest plane there is only one God, and at the lowest there are trillions upon trillions of gods

>losing track of the nature of God and becoming obsessed with the substance of gods

Implying that we share the same systems.

We will not see you in our afterlife and you will not see us in your afterlife. We feel the fire of the Folksoul burning inside of us, calling to us, calling for us. This is our way.

>>7507

>I'm curious as to what draws you to Asatru rather than the gods of your own ancestors in Hinduism.

fucking THIS

Hinduism, with its Shaivism and Advaita Vedanta, stretches back like more than 5000 years, with unbroken traditions having survived 'til today - unlike the fragments we're putting together the Asatru pizzle with here

Hindu gods and Norse/Germanic gods are both part of IE, but different. Drink from your own well, curryanon

I have to agree with our curryfriend. >>7510

Immigration and cultural relativism has made people on this board paranoid towards appreciation of the Other. That's tragic, since it means the Mosaic Distinction of the desert religions has managed to gain foothold in reconstructionist paganism in the West.

With regards to our curry conundrum, I'd suggest the following:

We the folks here call a heath is an ersatz organisation for what in better times would've been a community. Communities lived together and, by extension, partook in religious experiences together.

From this does not follow that these communities were created for the purpose of being a place to worship in group. That's what the so-called Folkish asatruars do in fact get wrong. The community or heath is a host, not a wall.

When asatruars and neopagans succeed in making real homogenous, tight-knit communities, which I hope they do, the distinction between folk experience and interfaith traffic should become clear again. If, on the other hand, they choose to further develop this insular way of thinking, they're on their way to become snow-jews, sadly enough.

Think of it this way. Let's say you have a functional, all-white community. You have your rites, you know what they mean and you have the means to pass the knowledge on to the next generation. What's stopping you from allowing pagan guests from India or Japan to attend May Queen ceremony?

>>7507

>>7516

for what it's worth - and this is pure anecdote - I've spoken to people from both heathen and traditionalist hindu groups who argue that heathenism in Germanic Europe would've been akin to hinduism IF the abrahamics hadn't ruined things

Lately I've been thinking if we'd have something liike Shintoism too, given long enough time to flourish

>>7510

>>7516

Also, for some reason I find the image of a reverse Himmler kind of funny.

>>7517

I think the West does have a tendency to go far into the abstract with theology, and push things to their logical extremes, so I doubt a Germanic paganism would've remained as stable as Hinduism has (I presume it has).

Shintoism may be a more suitable goalpost for us, since it's also reconstructed after being all-but-gone under centuries of Buddhism. What the Japanese have now is a balance between government-sponsored Shinto rites that few understand the meaning of, and an aloof attitude towards a Buddhism that serves as a substrate for folklore and a entry-point for people who are drawn to metaphysics.

I think that's a healthy combination that should in time evolve into something more organic. If the West could reach that stage, we'd be all right.

>>7519

One problem though is the current fighting between groups (ie the thread about McNallen's AFA vs Iceland's Asatruarfelagid; both want to "dictate" how heathenry should work internationally since I guess everyone is trying to make the best out of today's climate to make the religion stand firm for the future)

I remain a on-the-fence solitary for the time being, correcting errors by studying.

>>7519

>>7521

*what I meant to say is that heathenry isn't uniform yet. Compare the state of our religion today (local, national and international disagreements on many topics (maybe internationalism is bad in itself; would it be for the better if AFA and Asatruarfelagid followers just left each other in peace?)) to what is seen in the Wikipedia page on Shinto

We've got a long way to go before things are worked out, at the moment weeding out UPG and modernist crap is of utmost importance

>>7521

There is lots of politics involved, yes, but I think it's naive to assume that hasn't always been the case. The way forward for all these groups is to realize that they are already what in ancient times would've been called a cult - distinct schools of thought within a less defined body of religion.

Some cult will always "just don't get it", others will be batshit insane, and until there's either a dominant cultural glue (like in India) or a supreme overarching state cult (like Rome had), we'll have to tolerate the presence of counter-traditional cults.

The only way we can weed out wicca & co is by out-competing them on a material level, not with theological arguments.

>>7523

So basically, recognizing (still) that we're decentralized and separate from each other

Heck, just the present day world where 99% grasp the english language in order to communicate over continents; it's something special for sure. Americans would otherwise not be able to exchange ideas with "original asatruar" icelanders/scandis in the first place (and germans would have a hard time too since learning german is out of fashion for europeans post WW2)

>>7517

I actually agree, that and Shinto.

Hell, the Celts even had the concept of a meditative warrior down pat judging by statues.

I would also argue that this is how weebs come to be, at least in America. All we see of American culture is McDonalds, Television, Coca-Cola, Church, Holywood etc. all of this is artificial.

So weebs see a culture like the Japanese who have kept their traditional folkway and latch onto that.

I don't think weebs are degenerates, but I'm a regular on /a/, /mai/, and /weebpol/ so what do I know I just think they're barking up the wrong tree.

Same goes for the Hindu in this thread who considers himself a heathen.

>>7518

kek, thanks for the mental image of curryHimmler

>>7533

>I think the key problem here is that paganism is not just a religion… …and a uniform ideology and religious outlook.

>Now I'm not saying that Nation Socialism is our solution… …We have to go all in.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. If Asatru is to survive, it will need to fuse itself with the European fight for survival the coming decades. You can't open the doors for outsiders in our miscegenation situation and expect asatru not to end up like masonic derived Wicca. We need to secure our future first before we can possible consider opening ourselves up.

>>7533

Perfectly said.

>>7533

>what the degenerate buddhism destroyed

Buddhism isn't degenerate per se, esp. the Mahayana branch, which could be said to be contain a bare-bones version of Vedanta and a core Indo-European worldview. It's true that Buddhism in Japan had long since deteriorated and is just sort of going through the motions at this point. Which isn't so bad - the last thing we need now is more zealous non-pagans.

>>7536

>>7533

And speaking of Himmler, my position on curryfriend's relation to asatru should be more clear taking the SS as an example. They had close ties to Tibetans and I'd assume Hindu nationalists as well. Himmler had no qualms with borrowing from Vedanta, and the Black Sun in Wewelsburg has long reminded me of Shiva's ring of fire. Also bear in mind the spooky tale of Red Army soldiers entering an SS bunker and finding a bunch of Tibetan monks who had committed ritual suicide.

Religious ethnonationalism on all levels does not preclude forging close religious bonds with the Other. As long as everyone involved knows whose side they're on this is no problem at all. As I said before, this backlash against foreigners taking interest in Germanic worship has its basis in our demographic problem, not in religious doctrine.

Some of the members on NORSKK straight up just lies. In my arguments with them they quoted some stuff about the Eddas or some Germanic tribes which were completely bogus.

They are delusional. Just ignore them. Don't send hate mail though because they might get an outpouring of support (Like Hilmar did). Which would just "legitimize" their stance.

>>7549

I understand. I also felt as if they were lying to me on various subjects. I thought all the Norwegian Special Forces posturing was garbage. The guy started to get nasty so I asked him why our women in Scandia are being raped and their heads cut off in the streets. He then went on to say that he arrested a white ISIS member no less than a month earlier who was trying to gather Germanic women for ISIS slaves.

I thought to myself that he was lying to me the whole time. Even so it made me furious.

norskk guys are faggots and need to be physically removed.

I didn't want to make another thread for this so I'll paste here:

Anti-Racist ‘Heathens’: So Pagan They Want to End Our Bloodlines

http://renegadetribune.com/anti-racist-heathenry-so-pagan-they-want-to-end-our-bloodlines/

https://web.archive.org/web/20150827113538/http://renegadetribune.com/anti-racist-heathenry-so-pagan-they-want-to-end-our-bloodlines/

>>7728

Someone post this to the /r/Asatru board on Leddit and see how those decadent faggots react

>>7746

Well, they are of course going to just say that it's all the fault of the big bad scary Nazi Odinists and we should just go full Cuckatru to show them we're committed to multiculti.

>>7536

>kek

Go back to /b/, kid.

>>7746

it's already on /r/asatru.

The replies were mostly blaming racist asatru, or else calling it uncited clickbait.

>>7495

>you can't follow the Germanic faith because you're half Germanic, half another kind of Germanic that we don't like

>a full sub-Saharan African can follow the Germanic faith

>we're not racist

???

>>7516

I support this sentiment. A lot of unversalists say "well, our ancestors travelled different places and interacted with all kinds of different people" and that is true, and that is good. However, they didn't have the same "scare" regarding doing so that we now have.

>>8061

It's one thing to travel the world trading with them and learning about how they live. It's another to invite them into your communities to commit massive amounts of violent crime and breed your people out of existence.

>>7495

>I even had one of them tell me that I couldn't practice the faith of my Ancestors because I lived in America and because I was half Anglo-Saxon (other half being Norsk) (also contradicts their earlier statement about Folkish ideas being racist).

I take it you have some evidence to back up this claim with?

>>8071

Exactly, I don't get how they leap from "it's good to travel, sample different cultures, chill with foreigners sometimes" to "it's meaningless to have an ethnic and/or national identity and you should have a black girlfriend".

While I personally would rather we all bred with our own kind, if I may play devil's advocate for the sake of "exercise" - what of the sagas that reference Lappish people as heroes who became part of Norse society (not that I can think of any right now)? What of Sigurd loving a Hun in Brynhild and the other Germano-Hunnic unions?

For what it's worth, I believe that people here think race and culture are tied together a lot more than they actually are. No race is inherently degenerate–some may have more shitty tendencies than others, but it's really a lot more in upbringing.

I made and argument in an older thread that went largely unanswered: If a black kid born to ghetto trash in a city was taken and raised in, say, a traditional Germanic household, I think he'd be just as decent a person as any of us, and welcome in Asatru.

That's why I think race shouldn't be a barrier to the Asatru community–IF you actually have our kind of mentality and outlook. The only reason this is still predominantly a white religion is that this kind of mentality we have is most common in Western culture.

Anyone disagree? I'd be curious to hear why.

>>8146

You are wilfully ignorant on the history of us Europeans trying to lift up niggers from their savagery. Your situation would only work temporarily because he'll be surrounded by people and institutions that keep reinforcing the values on him. If you would have let him to his own devices or import more than one, he would revert back to his natural monkey ways. This happened in every single fucking nation in the history of the world that dealt with them. It's unnatural to their core behavior patterns and mental faculties and thus they will not embrace it unless it's constantly reinforced by its surroundings. You're a racetraitior for thinking he would fit in the community he doesn't even share the same ancestors.

Look up the Minnesota Transracial Adoption study, cuck. You might learn a thing or two about the real world, instead of what you have been led to believe by cultural marxists.

You can take a nigger out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of a nigger.

Even look at the Christian nignogs, they can't even follow that universalist 'religion' without adding/mutilating it with their own ways.

>The only reason this is still predominantly a white religion is that this kind of mentality we have is most common in Western culture.

What do you even mean by this? That we are predominantly racist and have shunned them out of the community? You can't be serious.

Anyone who doesn't disagree with you is not true to his race or the Aesir.

>>8152

So are you telling me that every single black person is inevitably a shitty person?

Don't get me wrong, I believe most of them are. The article proves they're objectively dumber, but being smart isn't necessary to being a good person. Morality and outlook comes from upbringing. I think you could raise most black kids up to become perfectly decent citizens.

All I am saying is that if there was a black person who was a good, loyal, brave person in accordance with our values (they're rare but there are a few of them out there), his race alone shouldn't bar him from the community.

Not everyone in a race is bound to behave the exact same way. I do not believe that every single black person has the same "core behavior patterns" that they will revert to. Most do, maybe, but not every single one. I've met black people that were very loyal and friendly–yes, even with other blacks around them–and I've met white people who are unbelievably shitty, don't take care of their children, and chimp out when provoked or in a group.

>>8154

>So are you telling me that every single black person is inevitably a shitty person?

Point to me where I said such a thing, you intellectually dishonest fuck.

>The article proves they're objectively dumber, but being smart isn't necessary to being a good person. Morality and outlook comes from upbringing.

More importantly it proves that nature trumps nurture. So stop with your tabula rasa dreamery you keep trying to hold onto.

>I think you could raise most black kids up to become perfectly decent citizens.

And you are wrong and willfully ignorant of Europe's past efforts to uplift the savage. Where has it worked? Nowhere. Why? Because they are literally too dumb to understand cause-and-effect, promises, time, spacial awareness and morality.

>his race alone shouldn't bar him from the community.

Why are you so hellbent on taking in shitskins just because a few behave admirably? Why do you think there is some sort of net-benefit of taking them in to us while opening the door for the genocide we are facing already today? Why do you want to steal them away from their own, ensuring they will never be able to improve their own tribe? Why isn't it enough for you to be a racetraitor but require the few couple unicorn blacks to betray their own as well?

Even to think you would consider them even our equals in Asatru says how fucking little you care about the survival of the european race and its heritage. His race is absolutely the reason why you should bar him from the community. My ancestors are not his, my gods are not his, my forebears fought against his.

Into the bog with you, racetraitor.

It's perfectly fine to be cordial with foreigners that have proven their worth. Doesn't mean you have to welcome them into the community.

>>8157

>where you said such a thing

"You can take a nigger out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of a nigger."

That seems to imply that they're all the same. Or is that not what you meant?

>nature trumps nurture

Not in all areas. Intelligence is genetic. That's nature. I understand that. Morality and outlook, on the other hand, aren't genetic, they're learned and logical behaviors. That's nurture, and can be taught through good parenting and upbringing.

I'm not hellbent on taking them in. I'm just not willing to bar them ALL out, as a group. I would welcome in the few individuals that are decent people, that's all.

>require the few unicorn blacks to betray their own

People aren't obligated to group with their race. Community is a conscious choice. It's not a betrayal to leave a community you were born in to, if you don't choose to belong to it. We group by morality, outlook, and worldview, not by race. Like it or not, that's how the world is now.

>Europe's past efforts to uplift the savage

You can't "uplift" them as a group. As I said before, I agree that most of them are shitty, disloyal, and stupid. But they don't have to all be grouped together, you can accept a few without "uplifting" them all.

Have you ever traveled outside your country? I'm curious to know.

>>8160

>Morality and outlook, on the other hand, aren't genetic, they're learned and logical behaviors. That's nurture, and can be taught through good parenting and upbringing.

They require abstract thinking and empathy. These are things that the Negro race genetically lacks. Take in 1,000 of the "decent" ones, and how many of their offspring will win the genetic lottery like they did?

>>8163

Those aren't entirely genetic. Those traits can be encouraged and developed with proper upbringing and education.