/atheism/ - Atheism

Unambigious proof for the first three.

The fourth is iffy. Religion might actually be useful for keeping the lower classes in line. The stupid people who less evolved half-animals. Dissolving it would require something else to take its place, to give the weak-minded hope.

>>13077

That means if a giant hands come from the sky and there is a voice out of nowhere - Don't fap, Tom.(Probably not your name) Then you would still insist that's not (a) god?

If they can make people dead but bring them back to life and those ex-deads can tell you things only ghosts could know then you still insists there are no souls?

>>13080

The first one could technically be an alien with loud speakers, but at least there would be a justified reason to believe in high powers unlike presently.

Zen Buddhism of all things teaches a koan that refutes your ghosts in most cases. A guy whoose wife died was haunted by the ghost of a woman who would torment him every night when he was about to sleep, telling him things only he (or his wife) would know. On the verge of a breakdown, he went to a monk for an exorcism and the monk said to put a bowl of beans by your bed, and the next time the ghost appears grab a handful in your fist without counting them, and make the ghost tell you how many you are holding. Sure enough that night the ghost visited him again, taunting him and whispering things only he knew, but this time he was ready. He quickly grabbed a handful of beans in his fist without looking at the and demanded the ghost to tell him how many were in his hand. The ghost vanished instantly and never visited him again.

The moral? A lot of ghosts are completely in your mind. The ghost could not answer him because he himself did not know how many beans were in his hand, and so it had to go away. In Zen logic is actually the exorcist that kills ghosts.

>>13082

It would have been faster to have just linked to the story and explained it. http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/65thesubjugationofaghost.html

>Some god must be real.

Proof.

>We can know a specific god exist.

Proof.

>Humans do have immortal souls

Proof.

>People need religion to build a lasting and stable society.

Proof, though with this one, we already know it's the opposite. Atheistic societies are more peaceful.

>>13089

Some could argue there are no atheist societies. Some countries are more secular but they are that way for only few decades. Will they eventually get destroyed because they are to liberal to fundamentalists or out-breeded by them.

Non-believers tend to have less children, that's a fact.

>>13089

>>13092

Let's have some intellectual integrity widespread openly expressed atheism is very recent in human history. You can speculate all you want about its affects but you don't have a large enough amount of data to make some kind of historical law.

Yes, the current societies that have the most atheists do have low crime and a high standard of living,, but how much can who extrapolate about the entirely of humanity from the last four decades in Scandinavia?

>>13092

The idea of a society dying out due to not having enough kids is always silly. At the precipice all you need is for a government to increase maternity leave and tax benefits for having kids, and start a nationalistic ad campaign, "Mothers! The future of the country is in your wombs!" and the problem should fix itself. Expect a Maoist zerg rush with no need for unlimited immigration to "fix" the problem.

>>13094

Isn't Japan trying that right now and failing to increase their birth rate?

>>13103

There is no space in a small japanese apartment for more than 1 or 2 kids.

>>13095

bunkerland Communist Albania was a paradise on earth.

Prove me wrong.

>>13068

>Some god must be real.

a meaningful definition of "god" and evidence

>we can know a specific god exists

a meaningful definition of "god" and evidence that we can know whether the subject of the definition exists or not

>humans do have immortal souls

if by soul you mean a non-physical substance then you have a hard time proving it, because first you need to solve the canonical problem behind all dualisms and pluralisms: how can two disconnected realities interact?

then if you have an explanation and evidence to show that non-physical substance exists then you need evidence to show that it's possessed by humans, that it's fundamental to human beings and finally, that it can't be destroyed.

>People need religion to build a lasting and stable society.

evidence, which we have but disproving this hypothesis as >>13089 said.

>>13095

anon said atheistic societies, not atheistic states

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

>>13106

Japanese women aren't even having one kid.

>Some god must be real.

Give a proper definition for God with a set of established attributes. There's people claiming a bearded man in the sky is god and others saying nature is god. I want a set definition.

After that, it would be up to someone to find some documented evidence of that god. A picture or video and for that evidence to be independently verifiable.

Once every other possibility is eliminated, I would be willing to believe.

>We can know a specific god exist

Similar to above.

>Humans do have immortal souls

Demonstrate a function attributed to the brain that can work independent of the brain. Memories, feelings, etc.

Or successfully contact someone from the otherside under controlled conditions.

>People need religion to build a lasting and stable society.

Attempt at building a lasting and stable society absent of religion both in inception and throughout and see how long it lasts. If it fails utterly, then you'd be right.

>>13112

>>13112

I see, we might be talking about the same thing then.

Do you mean countries like Sweden, Czeck Republic, Estonia, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Japan Switzerland?

>>13068

>Some god must be real

Some deity like Osiris or whatever appears with frequently demonstrable, phenomenal cosmic powers and confirms their corresponding ancient scripture.

>We can know a specific god exist

Some kind of alien encounter of a scenario pulled right out of the minds behind that Ancient Aliens show. It's entirely possible one random as fuck verse in an ancient religious text with reference to a god could be legitimate, though the odds are abysmal.

>Humans do have immortal souls

The most plausible. Entirely possible neurology and quantum physics might have some kind of bizarre breakthrough discovery where this turns out to be legitimized.

>People need religion to build a lasting and stable society.

Aliens time traveling from the future giving confirmation. Even then I'd be skeptical. But it's the best shot. This is by far the most far out.

>>13068

>Some god must be real.>We can know a specific god exist.>Humans do have immortal souls

For the first three, I would need some mind blowing stuff to believe. I mean really epic incredible stuff like Apollo cruising up in his chariot with my dead grandma and presents for everyone.

The last one, I would be willing to read about it and consider that religion was part of the development of society.