[ home / board list / faq / random / create / bans / search / manage / irc ] [ ]

/atheism/ - Atheism

The rejection of belief in the existence of deities

Catalog

Infinity Never
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 8 MB.
Max image dimensions are 10000 x 10000.
You may upload 5 per post.

File: 1454345919276.jpg (356.5 KB, 1901x1418, 1901:1418, sin_1.jpg)

b63a6a No.13739

How do non creationist Christians reconcile the idea of sin and evolution? According to Genesis man brought sin to the world and thats why the world is fallen and is all nasty. But with evolution this makes no sense. The world was already fallen and full of sin before humans where even on the scene. I would even say mankind is "fallen" because this world was built fallen not the other way around. People do evil things because it is sometimes a necessary result of survival of the fittest. People will put their own interest(and that of their kin) over the greater good or what reason tells us is moral because that is how your going to survive and reproduce often.

People aren't sinning as a rebellion against God or because of our evil nature(witch is odd because wouldn't that imply God gave us our evil nature?) but because often our biology compels us to do so. If God didn't want people to be some horny and cheat all the time then maybe shouldn't have used natural selection to design us witch favors those who spread their genes the most and not those who stay loyal to their partner. Of course im simplifying it a bit because being a pure selfish asshole would go against natural selection but you get my point.

Even if you say its not God's fault we are sinners, how is it ours? Human behavior is a response to natural selection, witch presumably is under the control of God if your a theist. There never was a chance for us not to be sinners, God made us this way and then demands that we beg for forgiveness for not living up to a standard thats impossible for us to live up to.

856b5d No.13740

>>13739

>How do non creationist Christians reconcile the idea of sin and evolution?

They can't. For sin to exist, there must be a creation where man is made in God's image and expected to live a certain way. Once you accept that everything is the way it is because of random chance and survival of the fittest, sin ceases to exist.


b7efbe No.13741

File: 1454361519005.jpg (62.97 KB, 720x342, 40:19, martin-luther quote.jpg)

>>13739

How do non-creationist Christians reconcile evolution and sin?

They don't think about it all that much?

That's the big secret to keeping the faith. Don't ask too many questions and never think about it objectively.


b7efbe No.13742

File: 1454361684418.png (190.34 KB, 500x476, 125:119, ravan morality.png)

>>13740

Something cannot be immoral simply because we all agreed that we shouldn't do that to each other?

Humans are social animals and need each other to survive. Esp. if you want to have any culture or comforts.


56a7a4 No.13744

Apparently the catholic church accepts evolution, but they still believe in a literal Adam and Eve… I don't know how they do it.


b7efbe No.13745

>>13744

The Catholic Church theologians are masters.

They can write volumes of word salad to defend nearly anything.


e1b9e0 No.13751

>>13745

Yeah, this. Catholics tend to be much more sophisticated in their theology, and they can juggle and strip down metaphysical ideas until they are abstract enough to be unfalsifiable. Also, Catholics aren't a tightly bound as the protties with their sola scriptura, and they get to hammer their flexi-catechism into a more palatable party line.

Apparently denying theistic personalism is popular right now.


49b3b2 No.13753

>>13739

I've heard that the "sin" in genesis is a methaphor for the seek of knowledge and trying to be like god. For some reason they don't try to reverse it or stop looking for knowledge.


856b5d No.13754

>>13742

>Something cannot be immoral simply because we all agreed that we shouldn't do that to each other?

Atheism lacks an absolute standard of morality. I mean, you could try to collectively make one up, but it would be nothing more than a self-made delusion, largely for pragmatic reasons.

>Humans are social animals and need each other to survive. Esp. if you want to have any culture or comforts.

This is nothing more than crude pragmatism, and not an absolute standard.


b7efbe No.13755

>>13754

We lack an absolute standard of morality because such a standard does not exist.

This is a good thing. We should not be afraid of the phrase "moral relativism".

Moral Relativism

The philosophized notion that right and wrong are not absolute values, but are personalized according to the individual and his or her circumstances or cultural orientation

I claim I am morally superior because this flexibility.

I would judge an assault by a mentally retarded man who had been raised by abusive parents less harsher than an assault by healthy normal man from a prosperous well-adjusted family.

You call it "crude pragmatism".. I call it human decency.


b7efbe No.13756

File: 1454432320444.jpg (63.98 KB, 557x300, 557:300, Jeremy-Bentham-Quotes-5.jpg)

>>13755

And what's amoral or crude about pragmatism?

Pragmatism.

2.

philosophy

an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application.

Human morality is pragmatic and adaptive.

(see Bentham quote)


b63a6a No.13768

>>13755

Objective morality doesn't even make any sense. Its like saying gold has objective value, it doesn't even if God declared it did. What we mean by value is that we value gold over others things given what else we value, what others value, and what else is available. In a thriving economy gold is valuable to sell and trade. But if you had no desire for human contact then gold isn't going to due you any good.

Similarly if we value human prosperity then it follows that we shouldn't through acid on girls going to school. Now, if you value following fundamentalist Islam then keeping people in line is more important than the actual prosperity of your community and you are justified in your radical actions. Just don't act surprised when your country is a shithole and the rest of the world looks at you like a bunch of barbarians


14275e No.13775

>>13754

Christians also have no absolute standards of morality. They point to the bible and pick the parts they like. There are rules like "don't wear clothes of different fabric"or don't eat shrimps but for some reason it doesn't matter. We can eat pork but jews can't. Why? Because early christians couldn't sell that to european heathens.


b7efbe No.13777

>>13775

circumcision was a hard sell too and was also dropped.


9d6e00 No.13782

File: 1454490494007.jpeg (2.45 MB, 4000x3000, 4:3, image.jpeg)

God and morality is like an author who wrote a piece of fiction and then got mad when other readers have interpreted it differently.

Ray Bradbury in his grumpy senility once stormed out of a university when students tried to tell him his book was about censorship, and not the evil of television. He thought everyone must interpret Farenheit 451 how he intended now, even if the majority of readers and critics have focused on another set of meaning for 50 years, and still enjoyed it. It's stuck up to think only you an architect is entitled to determine how people will feel about things, even if you are the creator. Once an object is created it will persist apart from the author's intent.


31e047 No.13783

>>13782

This tomb stone is ironic. It's like they have to tell the idiot reader about this author who wrote a book about a future idiot scociety.


46207d No.13792

>>13739

Predestination.


b63a6a No.13793

>>13792

If you accept predestination then it just brings up the question why does god create the non saved when he knew they are going to hell


46207d No.13794

>>13793

The same reason he creates the save despite knowing they will go to heaven.


b7efbe No.13795

>>13794

oh.. I reckon creating something and giving it bliss is sort of different than creating something and making it suffer.



[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ home / board list / faq / random / create / bans / search / manage / irc ] [ ]