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/atheism/ - Atheism

The rejection of belief in the existence of deities

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File: 1456767120622.jpg (32.71 KB, 423x336, 141:112, jesus agony in the garden.jpg)

cdd426 No.14319

I prayed today. Just out of desperation.

Am I losing my mind?

925152 No.14321

File: 1456771464348.gif (91.19 KB, 255x255, 1:1, 1416792173706.gif)

Not unless somebody answered >>:::))))


cdd426 No.14322

File: 1456773357722.jpg (31.69 KB, 591x740, 591:740, prayer.jpg)

>>14321

What if I get what I asked for?


cf15f2 No.14323

>>14322

The your are bad at statistics, easily impressed or just had luck.


57e550 No.14324

File: 1456781369353.jpg (77.19 KB, 780x720, 13:12, Ultra rare pepe of infinit….jpg)

no, you've just reached a point where you'd rather indulge in superstition than actually try to take action to solve your problems.


cdffa5 No.14327

>>14322

Test repeatedly.


cf15f2 No.14328

>>14322

Remember there christian kids praying their asses off because they are dying of cancer and still gonna die. But you found your car keys or your team won a game. So God is great.


4471d9 No.14332

>>14319

No, it just means you're not a true atheist and don't have much conviction. Study theology, philosophy, etc since it's obvious you still have doubts about what you truly believe or not believe. Many of us have been at this for years, we constantly seek out questions no matter what faith we had. Eventually we question enough that the holes in the stories of all theist religions are answered by more grounded truths, not the supernatural. Every answer I had, I found and it wasn't in religion. Maybe your answer is religion, maybe it works for you but it didn't for me and to me, religion is less objective truth than the whole of philosophy and the sciences.

Truth is the kink in the armor of religion. This is why they don't like you questioning, they know it'll lead you to truth. But many of us would encourage you to question us and yourself. You'll find your own truth eventually. Truth meaning what works for you and satisfies your mind and life.


e316ba No.14336

Try praying to something else you made up for a few months. You'll have the same amount of success.


cdd426 No.14339

>>14324

>>14324

>no, you've just reached a point where you'd rather indulge in superstition than actually try to take action

Then I am losing my goddamn mind.

>>14327

What I am asking for only needs to happen once.

>>14332

>Truth meaning what works for you and satisfies your mind and life.

The Truth is like poetry.. most people fucking hate poetry. The truth is reality.. It simply is and is indifferent to your feelings about it.


cdd426 No.14340

File: 1456802426361.jpg (44.18 KB, 333x500, 333:500, dark angel01.jpg)

>>14336

Oh I am praying to something totally made up.. it's a local statue called the dark angel,, people leave little offerings to her all the time.

Maybe if enough people believe something it because real, like how Wilbur Mercer starts as an actor in a television studio but becomes the messiah in Phillip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"….

Okay,,, Now that I've typed that I realize how absurd of an idea that is.. but shit.. My life is so close to getting better and just want to feel like things are going work out.


fd626a No.14341

File: 1456803931101.jpg (44.23 KB, 439x311, 439:311, 1449009164038.jpg)

>>14340

You could not sage your own thread, that'd be a start.

Trust me OP, I've known the temptation of superstition too, we all probably have at some point. The same as anyone else, it alows you to feel like you have control over something you might not actually have control over. Whether this is an inevitability (like death) or something more trivial (getting fit, finding a girl, getting guap) depends on the person.

It feels much better when you can take all the credit, rather than praise or curse an imaginary friend for things that happen to you/you make happen.


56fa3b No.14344

File: 1456811720041.jpeg (22.86 KB, 150x184, 75:92, image.jpeg)

>>14341

But does it really feel better to be responsible for your life when it'd be so much fun to see your life as a predetermined film, or some cosmic test?

Religion allows someone to play make-believe when the truth is too hard to bear. It allows someone who was crippled by wolves to pretend that supernatural forces have conspired to put him in the center of a bildungsroman genre film in which he is fated to be tested before an audience. This lets the religious float through life with a form of depersonalization derealization syndrome, thinking about themselves in the 3rd person to better understand how god must see them, while they neglect reality and only care about the invisible things that are happening. Religion is a placebo treatment for certain deliberating symptoms that can lead to suicide, (but read the warning because the drug can have harmful side-effects.)


d50f18 No.14347

>>14319

There's no such thing as atheists in foxholes.


7dd617 No.14348

No but you are incredibly desperate. What's troubling you, OP?


57e550 No.14349

File: 1456826990926.jpg (722.07 KB, 2590x1373, 2590:1373, WVhJoow.jpg)

>>14339

Truth is a lie, the only thing you can do to get closer too it is to throw out conviction and faith and seek the facts. however you will never truly achieve it no matter how hard you try. Youd probably be happier believing in some mystical thought and calling it truth, thats your choice to make. Either live life understanding that one day you will live no more, and exist no more and have the occasional bout of sadness(y'know, the position all the facts support) or live life a little bit more happily with the vial of hopeful thought. In the end though you wont really believe in it, at least probably not. If people actually believed in it they wouldn't weep when they lost loved ones, or buckle their seat-belt when taking a drive. But hey, it doesn't really matter, were all going to the same place. Absolute nonexistence. Whether you partake in religion really doesn't matter, just make sure you appreciate existence while you still have it cause one day, regardless of whatever mind numbing dribble you believe, you will cease to exist.

>>14347

and there are no Christians in heaven nor god in the sky. the example you sight is that most human beings will turn to superstition when their willpower is at its weakest. It says a lot about religion that I dont think you intend it too. If theres so much praying in foxholes, then why do so few men get their prayers? Why do liars and cheaters and politicians create the wars in the first place? why is there cancer in babies and why are there maggots that eat living flesh? The answer is that there is no why, and there is no god to hear your prayers. only the silence of the mind youre trapped in pretending to be something that isnt there so you dont go mad. I sometimes envy your willingness to be ignorant.

"Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world." - Alan Moore, Watchmen


fd626a No.14350

File: 1456843216404.jpg (114.57 KB, 650x434, 325:217, FLDS_Babies.jpg)

>>14344

Pretty much, you got it. Again, I know the lure of it. I've spent time with a cilice on my leg reading scriptures for hours, chanting blessings, blessing objects and shrines, consecrating idols to the deity of my choice. A lot of times it felt pretty damn good, but it didn't help my work get done or my other life circumstances improve in any meaningful, direct way.

That said, I've know people that get really into this stuff and can use it to be extremely determined and get through difficult circumstances, although, like you said, there's also the opposite edge of the sword where, the more you believe it, the more likely the religion will create problems for you that didn't previously exist.


cdd426 No.14351

File: 1456847878645.png (32.28 KB, 595x273, 85:39, same as it ever was..png)

>>14341

But there's the terror of being alone in an indifferent universe…

I feel better eating my corn flakes in the morning and dragging myself to my shitty job when I pretend it means something.


2570f8 No.14353

>>14351

>when I pretend it means something.

Ok then anon. Have fun, but do so responsibly.


f76fe3 No.14369

>>14347

More proof people turn to a god when they're pussing out. See "atheists in foxholes" military org. Plenty of military are atheist as I am and don't turn to their pet deity when scared.


d50f18 No.14383

>>14369

Most military personnel these days don't even see combat, and you probably have a higher chance of dying in a car accident than in the military currently.


02684f No.14387

You know its not going to work.


56fa3b No.14388

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>14351

The corn flakes are your problem. Don't eat sugary cereals and expect to feel good.


cdd426 No.14394

File: 1456951403568.jpg (334.01 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, you know damn well.jpg)

>>14388

Yeah.. my problem is my diet.. not being poor,, stuck in a dead end fucking job or having slept alone since Bush's first term.

Just eliminate those glutens or whatever and you'll feel great,, it won't matter anymore that you're a disfigured cripple from a needless war or that you are no longer on speaking terms with most of your family.


cf15f2 No.14396

>>14394

>Just eliminate those glutens or whatever and you'll feel great,,

Horseshit. Cornflakes are bad because they have alot of carbs and this will make you quickly hungry again.

Gluten free is a bullshit fad. Only 1% of people have a problem with it and you are probably not one of them.


3c6474 No.14398

>>14396

Also processed food tends to have less nutrition. If I could only get my ass to sunny Okinawa and learn to like the leafy vegetables of their traditional diet, my expected lifespan and would improve by several years and I'd feel happier. That's my future diet plan actually. I just have to figure out how to reprogram my taste and get a hold of miraculin to make the bitter but healthy stuff palatable.


57e550 No.14399

File: 1456955685908.jpg (12.94 KB, 590x385, 118:77, crybaby.jpg)

>>14394

how about, hear me out, you stop whining and praying like a little bitch to people who dont actually care and to something that doesn't actually exist and you work on getting yourself out of this situation like a fucking adult. create a budget, cutdown on arbitrary spending, use that money to go to community college and get a degree under your belt you can use. use your internet connection that you should be grateful to have to look for more work(go to the godamn labor section of your states websight). The only thing stopping you from improving your life is you, not some god, not some mythical force in the world, YOU. quite whining and praying and go fucking fix it.


fd7e6f No.14408

>>14399

That's not called for. The whole reason I come here is because I think atheism has helped me live a better life than when I was a christian. I think a lot of us do this because we think atheism is a better alternative but when you denigrate people like that, it doesn't help.

If being mean to people who are down on their luck worked, then the world would be over-ran with fuckheads like you. It's largely counter-intuitive.

>>14394

Cheer up, OP. There's still people here who will listen. But chans aren't necessarily the best place for personal support.

>>14383

There are no atheists in car accidents! Or I'm sure theists would love to believe that.


fd626a No.14417

File: 1456983221583.jpg (1.47 MB, 2310x1781, 2310:1781, 1448305701624.jpg)

>>14394

Jesus, Mary and Joseph Smith, you got to me. Honestly, OP, if this stuff helps you, I don't know, it can't hurt. Especially because you seem pretty aware of its limitations and will likely not be allahu ackbaring anyone anytime soon.

I can't believe I'm saying this, here of all places, but maybe you ought to find a religious group (or just an interest group but its your thread so). Once the love-bombing finishes off, you might be left with one or 2 legitimate friends.


56fa3b No.14420

File: 1456990517525.jpg (11.65 KB, 182x268, 91:134, harvey blue.jpg)

>>14351

>>14394

> or having slept alone since Bush's first term.

Personally, I've tried to prepare myself to be emotionally self-sufficient no matter what happens. I don't want to be needy, and I don't want to be so weak that I need company to be content with life. There are no guarantees anyone will be loyal and stick by you when you're old and dying, especially when the rate of divorce that hovers around 60% and many partnerships create as much unhappiness as they create. Its a sad paradox that we often can't stand others, and yet we often feel the need to be part of the herd.

My point is that it's easy to get caught in a materialistic race and to be expected to conform and commit to someone, put a down payment on a house, and have kids. Some of us are better at rationalizing away desires than others.

I personally have felt better ever since I told myself to stop caring about meeting social expectations. Lust and belonging are easily fixed physical compulsions. Poverty is usually a relativistic state of mind, and far more average joes complain about being poor than being rich in the 1st world. When you set your goal away from extrinsic rewards to something personal & intrinsic like a hobby, or learning, mastering a skill, or the creation of something for its own sake, the feeling of self-actualization will become more reliable no matter what the world throws at you.

Fwiw I had a friend in High School who still had imaginary friends with his puppets. I think that sort of emotional defense is a fine last resort if you're socially inept, have boring friends, or have unacceptable secrets that are beyond the limits of what your friends can accept. It's also not unusual for a lot of writers and comic book writers to organically develop characters in their heads through dialogs. In fact I think its necessary for keeping characters real & consistent in long stories.

That's the final safety net that will sustain me if I ever wind up crippled in a hospital, and no one wants to visit boring old grandpa. By all means make friends, but I think you should always have a back up plan.


57e550 No.14425

File: 1457002745578.jpg (8.84 KB, 236x236, 1:1, 4891d5d2ad6d14158e072269e9….jpg)

>>14408

Boo hoo, Did I ruin your hugbox faggot?

"The whole reason I come here is because I think atheism has helped me". Atheism is not an ideology, it is a lack of a belief in a god, thats it. lack in belief of something is not something that helps its just a state youve reached. you helped you, not some stupid label you put on yourself to make you feel better.

"If being mean to people who are down on their luck worked, then the world would be over-ran with fuckheads like you" I dont know if you know who runs the world, cause I dont think you understand the reality of what you just said. Do you know whos running for president at the moment and winning? You fucking morons, you absolute cucks think sitting around boohooing and praying(or hoping, its all the same) about your problem is actually gonna get you anywhere?

Also, guess what? I dont give a shit how op feels, or if this helps op. He can fuck off and die for all I care, Im just tired of seeing him and his kind whine to the rest of the world for a hand out

The only people who are down on their luck are people who believe luck has anything to do with it. If youre dealt a shit hand either tap out or work as hard as you can and struggle as much as you can to get where you want to be. If you dont feel like struggleing, fine dont, but dont sit there and whine becuase almost every other person in this world is either in the same fucking boat or has had it worse than you.

dont sit there and whine and circle jerk with all the other poor cucks, cause let me tell you something, no one is going to give you another hand. no one is going to pull you out of the muck. You and everyone else are on your own and until you and this fucking jack-off who thinks praying is productive accept that, your not going anywhere.

There are people in this world that would literally kill to be where OP is and all you can do is pat him on the back and tell him to go to a place where someone is willing to indulge in his flagellation even more. You are the type of people that are ruining this country, you are the type of people that would see us all suffer for your mediocre problems.

because its not like anyone else in the world has it harder than op right? for fucks sake he lives in a country where he can litterally go to almost any type of store and buy almost anything he wants. HE CAN PAY SOMEONE TO MAKE FOOD FOR HIM. he has a computer, and electricity and a wifi connection that doesn't have 1000 different firewalls protecting against the outside world. yeah boo fucking hoo hes so poor he can only afford to go out to eat once a weak. go snuggle up to your crappy heater with your Marx books and whine about how capitalism is hurting you


7dd617 No.14432

File: 1457031607249.jpg (59.45 KB, 777x432, 259:144, so edgy yo.jpg)

>>14425

You're the most badass "I don't care, mom!" person on all of 4chan and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Keep showing the world how cool you are, bro!

*brofist*


fd626a No.14435

File: 1457036686418.jpg (112.84 KB, 720x960, 3:4, 1441163366423.jpg)

>>14425

I can't wait to put classcuck cunts like you in a gulag Anon. Its gonna be the bee's knees.

This entire post was just so needless. OP don't listen to this man.


57e550 No.14436

>>14432

>>14435

Tossing nothing but ad hominems my way cause you cant actually argue my point, go cry about it on your blog faggots.


7dd617 No.14445

>>14436

As opposed to your whole argument which was based totally on ad hominems.


7cd622 No.14451

>>14425

Damn, it sounds like you're the one whining here.

You know, man got to where it's at today by helping each other out. The ones who readily attacked the weak would be in serious threat from other tribe members because you don't attack those who may help you, even if they seem at a weak moment. Assholes like you would either fall in line or forced out because you're a divisive factor.

Also you forget that even when you're in a first world country, society acclimates, we look for better and consequently have things to complain about that others might not in less developed countries. You're an ignorant idiot that's oblivious to shit like this, maybe because you're from a shit country.

You're the loser. You're the one who'd be fucked if you ever got that attitude with people in real life.


046a04 No.14458

File: 1457146150305.gif (3.8 KB, 452x523, 452:523, whos behind this post?.gif)

>>14435

hi, don't you have a hugbox to shitpost in?

>>14319

You're on the path to truth, anon.


fd626a No.14474

File: 1457212146589.jpg (107.11 KB, 500x500, 1:1, 1444902126894.jpg)

>>14458

>""""""hugbox"""""

>what is self-awareness

Good worker. Superstition and division only make you stronger!


57e550 No.14477

File: 1457221937325.jpeg (81.05 KB, 554x420, 277:210, wp-1449714318500.jpeg)

>>14474

you say as you type on your computer you were able to buy because it was made by cheap labor


fd626a No.14480

File: 1457277359817.png (47.11 KB, 471x500, 471:500, 1446145193905.png)

>>14477

>Computer

>made by labor

Like the rest of it. Like everything else. Good, you're starting to get it. Cut out the fat and the spooks.


046a04 No.14488

File: 1457315441814.jpg (32.39 KB, 466x382, 233:191, atheist.jpg)

>>14474

su·per·sti·tion

ˌsoopərˈstiSH(ə)n/

noun

excessively credulous belief in and reverence for supernatural beings.

"he dismissed the ghost stories as mere superstition"

synonyms: unfounded belief, credulity, fallacy, delusion, illusion; More

a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief.

plural noun: superstitions

"she touched her locket for luck, a superstition she had had since childhood"

synonyms: myth, belief, old wives' tale;


9ab17f No.14492

>>14458

Why do people like you get offended easily and try to offend others? This is why religious people are some of the worst people around. You always have to find something to be offended about and harden your persecution boner. Your "religion of peace" means nothing, it's as empty as your actions and people like you do your religions a disservice just as extremist muslims do.


fd626a No.14495

File: 1457325240714.gif (1.6 MB, 350x197, 350:197, 1456893976305.gif)

>>14488

>Fedora memes

>On /atheism/

K….Nice dubs.


046a04 No.14496

>>14492

nigga what


57e550 No.14522

File: 1457577014038.jpg (177.41 KB, 617x528, 617:528, worden-communism.jpg)

>>14480

congrats, you have made no actual arguments against my point. go back to tumbler anarcho faggot.


fd626a No.14531

File: 1457618800698.jpg (19.26 KB, 300x430, 30:43, 1457318761609.jpg)

>>14522

You didn't get it. Not my fault. Capitalism didn't make anything, labor did. One needs the other, exclusively. Not the reverse. Guess which one?

Return to /pol/.


57e550 No.14538

File: 1457653197048.jpg (39.22 KB, 500x400, 5:4, communism.jpg)

>>14531

again, you've made exactly zero sense, its almost as tho your spewing random shit in an attempt to sound intelligent.

what paid for that labor jackass? thats right, those hard earned capital dollars from the good old usa. what incentivised the hundreds of different inventors and engineers that have got computer technology to where it is today? oh yeah capital gain and the ownership over their own creations. what would have incentivised the creation of gmo foods that you eat on a daily basis? oh yeah, profit. what drove the economic revolution of the 1800s introducing canned foods, standardized parts, and a more globalized market place that allows people today to share and use luxuries that come from far and wide across the planet. oh yeah, profit.

without money or capital gain no one would be motivated to do anything and we would all live in a hellhole of misery, pain and ignorance. whats the point in working harder for a better pay check when you dont get anymore for your hard work? whats the point in inventing anything if the state is going to take it from you? why try advancing when there is no where to advance too?

oh and not to mention for any of communism to actually work they have to create artificial shortages of literally everything so that no one can stockpile, meaning you will never have anywhere near enough of anything. need toilet paper? too bad, its not ration day and your just making an excuse to stockpile pig! you need a private stash of penicillin in case of emergency? to bad capitalist scum, no stock piles for you! you want to use that empty lot behind your house and maybe turn it into something useful? to fucking bad capitalist scum, that belongs to the people and anything you do will be confiscated/ruined by the government.

also, communism only works if everyone's on board meaning anybody or anything that disagrees even slightly with the system needs to be destroyed or forcefully assimilated. like your fantasy books and adult cartoons? to fucking bad, they dont portray the party or the system in a flattering way and therefore need to be destroyed. youve decided you dont want to live in the misery and hell that is communism and want to change the system? too fucking bad.

communism is an antiquated system that has been proved to be a terrible concept time and time and time and time and time again. go to north Korea and tell me how much better it is when we stifle capitalism.


fd626a No.14568

>>14538

Labor exists independently from any system, unlike currency. It doesn't need to be paid for, it needs to not be robbed. The threat of starvation is not a necessary incentive for technological development, all those you mention are exploitative, to the LABOR necessary to create all of them. An idea entitles you to the benefit of the same, but never to that of labor. It was the socialist movements of the late 19th and early 20th century that made the conditions of Industrialization livable for the people who's backs it was built on; not the captains of industry (slave drivers) but the people. And again, an empty factory doesn't do you any favors. Labor. All labor.

>whats the point in working harder for a better pay check when you don't get anymore for your hard work?

That's exactly what I'm trying to tell you. Capitalism is asinine.

>shortages

A by-product of capitalist opposition protecting its own interest.

>also, communism only works if everyone's on board meaning anybody or anything that disagrees even slightly with the system needs to be destroyed or forcefully assimilated.

Again, this is capitalism. I think you're using a lot of examples from regimes that were clearly not Marxist like the Khmer Rouge, Chavez, North Korea and the USSR post Stalin.

>go to north Korea

Oh.


57e550 No.14573

File: 1457832391156.jpg (163.41 KB, 700x689, 700:689, cb8da6767461f2812ae4290eac….jpg)

>>14568

I dont think labor means what you think it means. labor is not an item, it cannot be bought and sold, and it cannot be "robbed". people can be bought and sold, and stolen for that matter given slavery is a thing. labor is a product of cost benefit analysis made by people. it does not simply "exist" devoid of any system. The less benefit you have for labor the less labor you get. simple as that. paying someone for their labor is not robbery. its called a contract, its called a trade. an employer gives you a sum of money that you can use on living costs and extra luxury items in turn for time and work (i.e. labor)

>It was the socialist movements of the late 19th and early 20th century that made the conditions of Industrialization livable for the people who's backs it was built on; not the captains of industry (slave drivers) but the people. And again, an empty factory doesn't do you any favors. Labor. All labor.

never said I was against socialism, I in fact think a healthy balance of socialism and capitalism is what a country needs to function properly.

Capitalism is by no means a perfect system and when gone unchecked can lead to some disastrous things like child workers, heavy government corruption, and exploitative labor practices. However, when in check and working under guidance it can grow a nation into a superpower and bring standards of living up exponentially. you seem to think that your internet connection and computer would have come about through

>pure labor uncorrupted by money

Labor is not corrupted through money and it is not stolen through money. labor is fueled by money. money is what drives labor. labor does not "exist" independent of any system, it in fact requires at least one person to exist. the most a person in a tribal system will exert is the labor required to live and to protect its offspring. the living and continued protection of offspring is the incentive for that labor. The incentive of making better tools to sow the field of wheat is not purely labor for labors own sake. the incentive of making the tools is less labor later for more pay out, the crops being the pay. the previous two examples are about as far as you get without a system of commerce. labor without money is purely self interested and does little to push forward the common good going only so far as to serve the intrest of the one who exerts it. how do you get people to exert labor on a project that doesn't directly ensure their continued existence and or directly benefit them through labor alone? the answer is you pay them. they do work that doesn't directly/inherently benefit them, but they still get benefit after the fact.

The pyramids were not built by slaves. they were built by paid labor. groups of workers were told that if they worked on the monuments that they would compensated for it, and the harder they worked than the others the more they would get paid. why did workers build giant monuments of steel in concrete in new york? I can tell ya it wasn't for the labor. it wasn't for their own sense of accomplishment. It was because the job paid well. why do people work in call centers? I can tell ya it aint for the fun of it. no, its cause they get paid to do it. Why are there paramedics? I can tell you it isnt for the fun of it. Its because people get paid to do a job. without commerce, people do not work for the common good beyond what benifits themselves

Did you even go to kindergarten cause you seem to be lacking some fundamental aspects of humanity here let alone the very fundamentals of economic theory. Its almost as if your an ignorant moron that doesn't understand how backwards and nonsensical his own position is.

>And again, an empty factory doesn't do you any favors. Labor. All labor

The initial birth of industry and the exploitative nature of its original leaders does nothing to actually refute capitalism, seeing as capitalism has been around for mush longer than any sort of industry whatsoever. The examples youve pointed out are industry and capitalism run amuck, not examples of why capitalism and or industry is wrong as a whole, you've pointed out the worst state of a system as a disparagement of the system as a whole, an you think its clever because you read it in a book written a hundred years ago. Labor is not stolen, people are. you cannot steal labor, labor is a service, not an object. what youre talking about isnt people stealing labor, its people stealing other peoples will. go ahead, kepp trying to straw man, that will make your argument so much more valid.


57e550 No.14574

File: 1457837888878.png (421.8 KB, 610x714, 305:357, 0dPItCs.png)

>>14568

>That's exactly what I'm trying to tell you. Capitalism is asinine.

so when people are being paid more for more work they do, that an example of how capitalism fails. are you retarded? seriously are you mentally impaired? what your saying is people getting more money for more and or better work is an example of how capitalism fails. so what your saying is that people working harder for a cause is bad and people getting paid for their work is bad. you must be a moron. have you ever had a job? no, your probably some twenty year old who took a couple of classes in gender studies and now thinks they understand whats really wrong with the world. if you really wanna understand whats wrong with this society look in a fucking mirror.

>A by-product of capitalist opposition protecting its own interest

so back in ancient times when people still roamed in small groups of family to stay alive there were never any shortages of anything. what youre saying is droughts are an example of "capitalist opposition". Crops being wrecked by disease and malnutrition isnt an example of a natural shortage, no by your standard thats "capitalist opposition".

*artificial* shortages are a product of capitalism making something valuable that actually isn't, like diamonds for example, the world has so much of them that they are basically worthless but most of them are locked behind doors so that the supply the world actually has is small. This is not to say that a shortage is good for capitalist endeavors. the more your product costs, the less likely most people are to buy your product over a competitors, thus driving companies to create surpluses of their products and streamline the manufacturing costs of them. Its funny that I have to explain basic economics to you, kind of says a lot about your argument that you dont even know what your against.

for fun lets imagine a world where all the worlds governments dissipate, all businesses and corporations are disbanded and everything produced is distributed equally among all. whats to stop me from taking my cigarette rations and stockpiling them. then, once I have a big enough stockpile I give people moderately more cigarettes than the distributors in exchange for part of their chocolate ration. now lets say I pay some of my new found chocolate to people who dont smoke and have them give me their cigarette supply to me to add to my stockpile. now I can offer more cigarettes to more people for the same price in chocolate, and I can even start branching out into other supplies as my payment meaning I can now stockpile different types of goods.

now not only do I distribute more cigarettes than the original communist supplier, I distribute them on a basis of commerce, meaning the more people give me in chocolate the more cigarettes I give them. Now, not only have I demonstrated how to exploit the system to everyone around me, Ive also showed them there is no consequence for exploiting the system. whats to stop me or my neighbors from paying some randos on the street and promising them a stake in the business in exchange for taking over the communist supplier. now I own the only supply in the region and I can charge whatever I want now I can stockpile more of different things, not just cigarettes and chocolate.

under a communist system this is stopped by creation shortages of EVERYTHING so that no body can stockpile and disrupt the system. you cannot have private property in a communist system for this very reason. meaning if you create something using your labor it isnt yours. meaning if you work on something that labor you enacted isnt yours. your whole argument about labor is bullshit, because you dont even understand what your advocating for. under a normal communist system they also have to destroy all decenting opinions, because the minute people start thinking they can work against the system, is when the system falls apart

under an anarchic communist system, who will stop me from doing this? who will stop my neighbors from doing this and their neighbors from tearing the whole system to shreds with a little market manipulation. the only way that your system works is if everybody, EVERY SINGLE PERSON agrees with is, and you know that will never happen. your system is bullshit and porly thought out to the point were even a theoretical model of it is full of holes.


57e550 No.14575

>>14568

>Again, this is capitalism. I think you're using a lot of examples from regimes that were clearly not Marxist like the Khmer Rouge, Chavez, North Korea and the USSR post Stalin.

you've convinced me that you dont even know what capitalism means. again are you mentally impaired. the systems you have cited all shun capitalism like the plague. im sorry am I arguing with an 8 year old? seriously, how backwards must your knowledge be that you think north korea loves capitalism and the free market.

>Oh.

north Korea does not have a free market. north Korea shuns capitalism like the plague. your not funny and you lack basic elementary education. please go open a fifth grade social studies textbook you hypocritical moronic neanderthal. or you could just keep resisting capitalism using your internet connection, computer, the cloths off your back, the gas in your car, the food on your table, the table, the roof over your head, the sidewalk you walk on and the world you live in which exist and continues to exist solely on the back of economic principles and an international community fueled by capitalism. keep resisting it.


fd626a No.14600

File: 1458085416072.jpg (101.46 KB, 392x500, 98:125, Whoa_Nigga.jpg)

>>14573

>>14574

>>14575

I don't think so. Condense that to one post if you actually want to converse instead of masturbating.


57e550 No.14602

>>14600

sorry, but your vast stupidity cant be condensed any further, consider your unwillingness to read what ive said as a resignation from the argument.


56fa3b No.14603

File: 1458149542288.jpeg (753.16 KB, 1200x2565, 80:171, image.jpeg)

>>14602

You should condense it though. A lot of us already heard your argument in economics class before you fully fleshed it out. Doesn't mean we haven't rejected unckecked capitalism in favor of systems that make for more happiness. In surveys the United States always ranks lower than more socialist developed countries in Europe for quality of life and satisfaction.


56fa3b No.14604

File: 1458150850268.jpeg (68.09 KB, 720x408, 30:17, image.jpeg)

>>14602

Also I'm not personally interested in hearing the same mainstream propaganda that has passed for economics education and been dogmatically forced down our throats by neo-cons as a legacy of the US fighting a cold war and emerging the winner. I had to listen to Milton Friedman's ideas in every Economics class I took, and his ideas for deregulation and sly corporate welfare are mainly what landed us in the current recession. His school of thought is already debunked, but the average man on the street or die-hard conservative hasn't caught up yet.

Instead I want to hear contrarian opinions that question the "common sense" we've all heard, and an honest study of the feasibility and merits of communism or socialism isn't something you'll get in most American class rooms. Knee-jerk derision from anyone who was indoctrinated by high school economics, shows the sacred system you're conditioned not to question.


57e550 No.14607

File: 1458209473960.gif (4.66 KB, 504x130, 252:65, CapSoc.gif)

>>14603

Im not saying unchecked capitalism is a good thing. in fact I think america is in dire need of reform on that front. one of the issues with capitalism is that its a competition, and if no one interferes with said competition someones going to come out on top. also, not all things benifit from being a private service, like health care or the prison system for instance. Im also not against socialism when used correctly (universal health care, social security, government run prison systems etc…).

In fact my opinion of how a good society is run is through a mix of government run systems (systems that are supposed to work for the people but under capitalism do more harm than good, ex: health care, prison systems, military industry…etc.) and luxury industries that operate under a (mostly) free market that dont need to be controlled by the government directly (but are still under the eye of government regulation). in short all systems critical to life and or society need to be under the control of the government to prevent extortion and to prevent these critical systems from failing in the event that the people in charge of them want to extort their power.

things like media, consumer products and services, and private healthcare options among other things should still be available and should still be allowed to conduct business freely (with the caviot that they do not form monopolies, participate in unethical business practices, and or do not operate in direct opposition of the good of the people). capitalism is like a fire, if kept in check, it can be a source of warmth and a versatile tool for all peoples, however if left to its own devices will consume and destroy until it is under control again. In essence, socialism and government regulation is the fire pit that keeps capitalism in check.

My argument to the anarcho fag was not to say that capitalism is perfect, but that communism is utterly and completely bankrupt of any and all actual use and is undoubtedly worse than any form of capitalism even crony. communism is something that only works if either everyone under the system agrees with the system (which is impossible even with indoctrination) or if the people in charge of the system violate the human rights of everyone in the system and create artificial shortages of literally every product that can be efficiently stockpiled to prevent the destruction of the system. communism is not only a system that no one should ever want to live under, its also a system that has been demonstrated time and time again to be impossible to even partially implement due to human nature.

Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future due to human nature people will always fit into tiered class system. there will always be poor people, and there will always be rich people. the best that we can do is not to fight this system and inevitably either fail or destroy our own humanity. instead, we should ensure that the people at the bottom of the system can live with relative comfort and have the opportunity move up with hard work and determination as well as ensuring that the people at the top do not take advantage and do not tred on the people on the bottom. we must accept our nature, and do our best to exploit it and to ensure that we do not fall prey to it. throwing reality out the window by trying to promote communism is not ever going to be any solution to any problem.




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