/atheism/ - Atheism

>>2653
Because http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/07/14/why-arent-atheist-parents-raising-atheist-children/

>>2654
yeah but that's a bit of a red herring because most atheists aren't born to atheist parents,

so what this graph is really showing is that people who are atheist when they are kids tend to grow out of it -

>>2656
>>2656

>There's a lot of non-religious people who are technical atheists, but don't identify as atheist.

You are getting into fuzzy grey area stuff here. Yes maybe not all christians are true christians who take the faith seriously, maybe a large number are cultural christians . . . and from a religious perspective, yes they would not count as christians because they are likely going to hell, however from a practical, scientific and sociological perspective they have to count as christians because we dont really have a measure for true faith and so these kinds of studies have to include cultural christians as Christins. It seems more likely to me that these people are more just wishy washy types who dont really have strong beliefs either way, or strong beliefs about anything which is the majority of people

as for that religion in decline, that is what you would expect if my graph were false, and your propositions were true

hoewever, if my graph with 30% atheism retention rate was true, you would see a rapid decline in atheism and growth in religion

and guess what, atheism is in rapid decline

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/atheism-in-decline-worldwide/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/study-world-is-turning-more-religious-atheism-declining-100518/

>>2653

Whenever someone talks about "growing up" I find that the vast majority of the time they are really talking about acquiescing to the majority so that they can keep their careers and continue getting laid rather than sticking with principles. When I saw this pattern, I immediately realized that I would rather be principled and viewed as childish than the other way around.

But that doesn't even matter, because as others have pointed out, flawed statistics.

>>2659
>kids tend to grow out of it -
The kids who grow out of religion are very likely to turn to atheism. That's what the OP pic doesn't show.

>Atheism in decline
Actually atheism is growing rapidly in places that matter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-barber/atheism-to-defeat-religion-by-2038_b_1565108.html

https://kielandedmonds.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/god-responds-to-atheism/

OP, we atheists know that atheism grows when people are well off, it will increase in countries with high standards of living. In countries with low standards of living, however, are more likely to turn to atheism. Especially now that communism is fading away. Sure, atheism is on the decline in Russia and China, but it's increasing in America and western Europe.

>>2661
*In countries with low standards of living, however, are more likely to away from atheism

And what does any of this has to do with the truth value of religion? If hindus are the best at retaining their religion, doesn't that make Hinduism the most true religion of them all?

>>2666
these paintings are symbolic rather than representative

I'll never really understand people who can simply be converted from atheism to christianity. While it's true, once when I was in a really bad situation and still mostly leaning on agnosticism, I prayed out for anything. I'm trying to grow and become a stronger individual, who can stay calm even during those times.

But even during that time, you would have still never been able to make me truly believe in god. I'd need real proof, and not some bad psuedo-intellectual "proof" that only makes sense to koolaid drinkers.

>>2668
if you don't believe in yourself then you'll never live

>>2670
you exist deeper than ganesh

>>2653
That graph is a bit misleading. Most of the information they have comes from church membership records and open surveys. Atheists are listed in an atheist registry.

>>2673
Sorry. I meant they are not listed in an atheist registry.

>>2653
>How does it knowing that 70% of the people on here will one day grow up, re-evaluate their positions, and find god?
>implying most of us were raised in atheist households
From what I've seen on this board, most of us became atheists the hard way, by being honest with ourselves, and that's something that doesn't go away with age. Also what these guys said >>2660 >>2661

>>2676
This.

>atheism
>religion
Pick √(-1)

>>2676


I wanna add to my original post that despite there being a lot of Christians in the US, you see a lot of people picking up more secular values, and dismissing the most of the hateful and antiquated shit in the Bible to fit in with more modern/secular ideals.

You literally have to ignore chunks of the Bible in order live in Modern society, and ignore a lot of scientific theory in order for it to work for you if you believe in the flood and all that bullshit.


Religion just doesn't work right without a bunch of mental gymnastics. This is evident in the trends of more developed nations.

>>2661
>>2662

>but we're growing in places that matter

lol right - Europe is a backwater already and American dominance is, for those in the real world, already lost to China

>>2683
>>2676

I think this thread just demonstrates the ehtnocentricm of atheism, in that they believe, without reason or justification, that europe and N. American culture and world views is superior to the rest of the world. I would beg to differ

Keep begging that difference because all you're showing us is an argument for populism while you yourself show just how secularized Christians have become that it's utterly ripe to be the next benign religion to fall out of use like thousands of religions before it.

Undeveloped nations are full of the gullible, vulnerable & desperate. They are perfect prey for the religious to spread their lies that can be found nowhere else. If any of these poor countries looked to nature for answers they would never compile the same answers in the bible, it would be another religion of guesses spawned from their own culture/environment.

>>2692
Good piece on this exact topic.

>>2698
The full video is here. That anti-gay pastor is a stand-up comedian. I can't believe this baboon had the influence testified to various governments. Uganda is even more backwards than I imagined.
http://youtu.be/LKP-PUAI96U

>>2692
This.

>>2687
it's not an arguement from populism, it's an argument from future you, based on the fact that in a few years time, 70% of you will have grown out of this rebellious little atheist phase

(speaking of which you atheist have a bad habit of throwing names of random logical fallacies around even when they don't apply to the argument at hand)

>>2705
>>2692
>>2698

aside from dats racism, it wasn't nigerians falling for nigerian prince scams last I checked, Westerners have a special reputation for gulliability, the rest of the world is actually skeptical

for a gorup that prides itself on being open to other experiences and other cultures, you atheist seem fairly isolated and stuck in your own worlds. It's clear you faggots have not traveled much

>>2724
You ignored what was said earlier so I'll repeat it. I believe most of us here are apostates who left religion, and don't fall under the category on that post. We are more versed in religion because we have wrestled with religious dogma for a while and seen the contradictions. I certainly doubt I'll "outgrow" atheism, since most everything I read is just one piece of evidence- one more brick on the foundation that supports my stance against religious dogma.

>>2653
One thing to consider is that religions are cults. They are socially engineered for maximum retention. It's not easy at all to leave a religion because you are fighting against indoctrination. After that you face social rejection. Depending on how difficult it is to escape indoctrination and how convenient it is to have that cultural identity, you'll see higher retention.

For example on that chart, Hinduism is geographically isolated in India. It's culturally normal to be a Hindu wherever Hindus are found. Same with Muslims in the middle east. On the other hand, Jehovah's Witnesses have almost 3 times less retention. Jehovah's Witness is one of the more radical cults with less cultural influence where it occurs, thus less retention. It's easy to be exposed to materials that make indoctrination cognizant, and it's easier to find cultural assimilation after leaving the cult, although many still face family rejection because JW's are assholes.

Funny how religious countries that detest atheists are highest on the list.

Atheism is not a religion so it doesn't have anything to say about forcing people to stay a part of it. Since religion is the "normal" thing in our culture, atheism is the white crayon on black paper, so to speak. A negative space that appears to be like a religion to people who think religion is the default state of mind. People join a religion because of a lack of a developed philosophical outlook, and they use it to find cultural acceptance. That is what Nietzsche meant when he said that God is dead. We have nothing substantial to replace religion and the future has shown us to be unprepared. There may even be nothing.

>>2730
> It's culturally normal to be a Hindu wherever Hindus are found.
Strike that. It is culturally normal IN INDIA to be Hindu. There are Hindus in other countries too.

>>2724
But we weren't all rasied in atheism. Also you don't know if this trend will hold up so it doesn't necessarily apply to this generation.

>>2724
From the OP it sounds like a suggestion that we should be less confident in our postition on religion since statistics say we will change our mind and most of us will believe in god(s). If that's the case then it is an argument from populism.
If you're literally only asking about my feelings on the matter without any subtext then I will answer that I'm perfectly fine. If most of the people here are to start believing in god I will think they're wrong. If I become religious in the future (again) then I think I will be wrong or that some convincing evidence will have been presented to me.

>>2653
why is atheism even lumped together with religions?

don't they know the definitions? Is everyone who doesn't hold a belief in the existence of unicorns a member of a-unicorn religion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8U_JveHS8E

>>2654
How many people live as atheists or agnostics but don't identify as such?

My parents grew up as Catholics, I was baptized Catholic as an infant, but we never went to Church when I was growing up. I had no idea what "Catholics" even were until I was in fifth or sixth grade.

We just never talked about religion in my family.

But if someone had asked my parents their religion they would have said "Catholic".

Probably because it's more socially acceptable to say that, then "None".

I'd wager the vast majority of "religious" people in America only turn up in Church for the rituals for funerals and weddings and don't even bother to think about God most of the time.

>>2653
Like I care about fate

Why? Because atheism is lack of belief, and no one is telling you that you go hell if you stop being an atheist.

>>2670
Oh Ganesha, introduce your godly trump in my butthole, please!

>>3047
>but the believers hate you
hold on chum where are you getting this from?

>>3035

>rebellious

I never understood this meme. What's so rebellious about realizing that something isn't backed up by anything?

>>3248
>>3250
A more serious answer would be that religion plays an important social role to some people (my parents told be that in their youth, all the village met each Sunday at the church, and missing the mass was suspicious), see religious weddings, religious charities, religious events, so rejecting religion is like rejecting the current society.

>>3252

What if you're born in a non-religious society? Does that make becoming a christian an act of teenage rebellion?

>>3254
In France, non-muslims teenagers convert to islam and go to Syria for the jihad. Teens are rebellious.

>>3256
You're crazy grandpa, it has to do with the Islamists telling teens that they will behead their nan if they don't.

>>3264
Hahaha, oh dear lord Sweden is so fucked. Why do smart people do this? At what point do you become so full of yourself and become so self assured that you are right that you get this fucking delusional? I know there are many social justice people who actually do have higher than average intelligence in some factors, but what dampens their intelligence and makes them do such irrational things at times?

Why has academia fallen so low? Is there any hope for it left?

>>3264
They use many strategies.
They brainwash girls online by telling them they could become a nurse and help these poor kids being killed by Bachar El Salad.
They brainwash boys online by telling them how rad it is to do the jihad (I hear everytime that their propaganda is Hollywoodesque).
All of this mixed with classical sectarian techniques (you are the Chosen One, you have a holy mission, don't trust your family and your friends because they are jealous of your fate,…)

If the Kurds were better at propaganda, they could hire rebellious western teens too (Rojava is a feminist libertarian socialist society, and they kill bad guys).

>>3266 Someone once said: Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.

You guys should look into the sarin gas attacks of Tokio.

The main perpetrators were people with advanced degrees in Chemistry, AI, and applied Physics.

It is very interesting wrong a socio-religious perspective in the context of a society like Japan where only a minority of people are members of organized religions.

There are less atheists in the world than theists. I want to know a few things:

1. Did they ask the same amount of people in each category? 3 hindus, 3 jews, 3 atheists, etc?

2. How many people overall answered this poll?