/atheism/ - Atheism

>>4192
you don't have to send an establishment money, (you can donate to the poor if you want, but don't trust all these "THE ESTABLISHMENT NEEDS YOUR MONEY NOW!!!" places and don't let them make you feel guilt, and don't let guilt make you give them money, and do not get into arguments or conversations with these people because they are armed with mental warfare that will make you feel depressed by overthinking it, they create these mental weapons in the form of guilt tactics because they are greedy and want your money and want you to feel bad.



as a slightly related example: the governments military budget is a skyscraper compared to the old wooden shack that is the NASA budget, and yet people are forced to pay high taxes, and you still see sad commercials of puppies and kitties with sad music playing in the backround, and commercials of programs that beg for money to help war veterans that fought for our country and our freedom that are clearly not being helped enough by the government itself. Those commercials should not even exist because there is no excuse for those people and animals to not be getting the help they so desperately need. then these people want to send you junk, T-shirts to make you feel proud for donating, trash like that wasting the money you sent to them, barely a fraction of it actually being implemented. don't feel guilty, know the truth in your heart.



Give because it comes from your heart, not because you want to look cool or because you feel that you have to or you will be breaking some imaginary rule. of course you are doing a good thing, but do it for the right reason because you will be doing two good things and one less bad (betraying yourself)

Don't overcomplicate it (I'm not telling you to drop your traditions and ways of doing things, no way!) some rules make alot of sense and should be taught to people. the Ten Commandments are a good example, although many could argue that some peoples parents are awful, so it gets very confusing.

>>4193
I even believe it may be at almost a conspiracy theory level that these things may even be designed to keep people distant from G-D and the holy true purpose for them. how can anyone achieve what they are meant to do or learn however direct or indirect of a goal in this life if they all keep constantly going to the same building doing all these religious duties every single day to keep them tied down? these things are very important to some people and I'm not against it, this is just my opinion and I believe strongly in freedom.


I'm not saying or implying that I'm better than anyone else in any way. while I see the world in its current state as a result of other people fighting wars and committing crimes, as well as other religion related wars and problems, I simply have this to say: the world is really messed up. I have been hurt and helped by all kinds of people from different races and religions and I hold no hatred or grudge for anyone. what I'm saying is that I feel like we are all being tricked. I do want people to believe in G-D but I want people to also be aware of what they are doing and have a good thought about it.

>>4194
there is only the one and only Lord, G-d and there is no other.

Exodus 20
"You shall have no other gods before Me."You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

Deuteronomy 5
You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

jesus appeared to me in the bible as a very angry, crazy, foolish, unforgiving, yet wise and seemingly good doing person, that was severely misunderstood by desperate people and normal people alike, and intentionally misunderstood by decievers who wished to spread the idea of jesus being worshipped so they could trick others into false idol worship. christianity and jesus and his story is a giant mess of confusion, misspeaking, deception, corruption, and poor choice of wording. christianity as its basis is an email viral spam tactic for example"SEND THIS EMAIL TO TEN PEOPLE OR A SPOOKY GHOST WILL POP UP"

basically, the moment I hear that someone thinks I will suffer in hell for ever and ever just because I don't think exactly the way that they do, I instantly lose all respect for them and they can't even resemble a speck of integrity, rationality, and credibility anymore to me.

it's not enough to these people that they simply believe what they do about jesus, but it seems as if they go so far as to try and tell me as if they want me to feel bad or "save me" by threatening me it stops being:
>"we are cool I respect you even though you are a different religion than me, we put our differences aside and friends anyway, babysit each others children, no problem" and becomes
>"seriously, you really believe in placing yourself up on a pedestal for believing in something different than me, and as a result you believe you are better than me and that I and and billions of other people should suffer FOREVER?, you believe that, but you don't keep that messed up junk to yourself, you follow me around trying to do something far beyond the 1st amendment and harass and psychologically torture me by constantly trying to remind me that you believe I'm going to suffer a fate worse than death over and over again for not a moment, not a day, not a week or a month or a year, but FOREVER! and that you are completely fine with that even though I'm your best friend!? really?

>>4195
if anything, it might be more accurate to say something like- maybe planet earth isn't the best place especially because of how difficult life is for people, BECAUSE of people. us people on earth make our own hell. I'm not saying the idiot down the street does this, or even you, but people like politicians, dictators, greedy people that only care about money and power and control without any regards to the environment and other people's happiness, and other generally hateful people who try to hurt or enslave others; I believe are absolutely responsible for every bad thing on earth right now. we need to do our best to become better people so we can turn this hell on earth into something better.
it is those who seek to corrupt your mind that want to enslave you with fear and false ideas.



self-righteous enormously egotistical mentally corrupt psychopaths love to tell other people things that scare them and give others terrible ideas so that they can enslave their minds before they actually enslave them physically. think about all the news we see today and the ideas they try to spread. and at how our society is in trouble, little children getting arrested and expelled from school for eating toaster pastries and having a teacher accuse them that its in the shape of a firearm. its all fear mongering. meanwhile they mass medicate everyone without consent by adding fluoride to the water.


being a good person and doing what you think is right can be very important, but alot of people in this world often try to trick other people and make them fear every single action they ever take because whoever the manipulators or "bad people" are, they don't want everyone to think freely, and while somewhat unrelated to the topic, yet important for it: school is another example of this.

>>4196
schools and prisons are in a very spooky way, (almost) the same. both have:
>authoritarian structure
>dress code
>emphasis on silence and order
>negative reinforcement (no opinions allowed, no fun allowed, no thought allowed) and harsh punishment for everything they are against whether honest and true or not.
>ZERO TOLERANCE POLICIES, created by zero intelligence individuals that result in innocent human beings being punished in extreme, unfair, and unjust ways when they shouldn't even be punished in the first place.
>walking in lines, no deviation from the path of strict control allowed
>loss of individual autonomy
>abridged freedoms and extremely unfair and illogical rules
>no input in decision making "but teacher that may cause a problem" "NO BUTS!"
>set times enforced for walking, eating, drinking from the water fountain etc. "one two three, thats enough for me!"



moving on anyway, the strange thing about some christian fanatics is that they believe that even very nice people who did some good in the world go to hell just for not having ever heard about jesus before, for not believing in exactly what they do, for not thinking exactly what they think. what we have here is a case of whiny crybaby control freaks who can't handle that someone else on earth is different than them.



I have had a conversation with a fanatical christian, I told them that I didn't believe in people or statues or false idols or anything, but that I believe in the one and only Lord, THATS IT. they said to me
>"nope you have to believe in jesus too or you will burn in hell forever"

at that moment I knew that christianity is a trick to get you to stray away from the one and only lord, and believe in a person as much as you believe in the lord. they want to trick you into committing false idol worship.

>>4197
there are hints in Matthew that jesus is evil and some people then even try to call him out on it, but he just throws away the accusation by saying another parable or confusing riddle that doesn't make grammatical sense. jesus speaks with a twisted tongue, always in parables. jesus actively and awarely follows a prophesy like a script and even misquotes incorrect bible verses and makes contradictions in order to attempt to fit the prophecy closer because instead of allowing G-D to guide him, he seems to want to put himself in that place regardless of if he fits or not. That isn't how its supposed to work. jesus is often referred to as the son of man, this doesn't make sense, because how can people worship a man?
jesus often says things that strongly imply that he intends his word to be assumed as higher authority than the word of the one and only Lord in heaven.(also in matthew)


jesus often warns people to not fall for false messiah and tricksters but often sounds just like something the orignal deceiver performing a new scam for the first time would they themselves say to keep attention away from them.

>>4198
Matthew 1:23 says jesus (messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.

(Romans 1:3 says the Messiah is to be a descendant of David but how could jesus meet this requirement since Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph who was not his genetic father because of the Virgin Birth.

The mother of the real Messiah might then be more likely to logically have to be related to David.
(unless artificial insemination, but that is a theory further ahead)

Isaiah …14"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. 15"He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 16"For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.


A strange thought occured to me, why would someone still eat milk and honey at the time that they know how to refuse evil and choose good?

Wouldn't someone who has knowledge of how to choose good and refuse evil, believe that avoiding milk and honey is a better decision, Especially when they could instead make a variety of different dietary choices that could contribute to nutrition equally or better than milk and honey?


In the days of the bible I doubt that animals lived in highly industrialized farms and conditions comparable to the holocaust as they do now in the present day, this "future" right now when the prophecy to the best of my knowledge has STILL not yet taken place.


However, based on the fact fact that at least in todays world, the majority of bees, cows, and animals in general are not treated well and live in horrible conditions and that buying animal products contributes both directly and indirectly to the wealth and continued operation of the owners of and the companies and corporations that continue the torture and ill treatment of animals every single day every single year.


AND, since #1 any well informed person today knows the horrors of how animals are treated and #2 the prophecy has to the best of my knowledge not taken place yet and #3 If the event hasn't happened yet, by logical thought someone could say that the event will therefore take place in the future, and #4 (15"He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good.)-


-We could agree that a logical careful theory can be proposed and suggested, That for this event to occur:
animals must first be treated with love and care so that there isn't anything heavy or negative associated with using animal products like milk and honey because of their high standards of treatment(Which is not happening YET but is a current work in progress for humanity right now, or at least those who actually care and are making real changes to life as we know it.)

>>4199
It might be a logical and educated thought to consider the idea that a boy that is born to a virgin mother and given the named emmanuel (in the future since to the best of my knowledge the event hasn't taken place yet ) and also possibly a hint: (advanced artificial insemination could make it possible to have a virgin mother, insemination without sexual intercourse and without breaking the hymen = preserved virginity = another hint of the future?) being knowledgable about how to refuse evil and choose good and then going on to decide to eat some milk and honey may NOT actually be a sign of the events to come, but a sign that animals are treated better in the future, making this piece of the prophecy into a complex SIGN of a sign that the event will take place after animals are treated better, which seems to be closer and closer (yet still somewhat far) right now for the whole world in 2015 as more and more people are becoming interested in veganism.


I believe that people are imperfect and therefore the bible which was written by people is also imperfect. I can't trust the news on t.v. either. there are alot of things in the bible that I agree with and alot of things that make me wonder how in the world they ever got there. Imperfect people are the explanation. The most important thing you can do is believe in and Love the one and only G-D, because some book made by people isn't going to be the best guide, G-D is the best guide.



Jeremiah 31:31-34 New International Version (NIV)

31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their G-D,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

my giant post is done. Tell me what you think?

Not related, but a general question of Judaism.

It's forbidden to speak the name of G-D but is it forbidden to think it.

Like if I said God, and it registers in your mind. Is that forbidden?

>>4226
I'm glad you asked that, and since I'm not the most educated super rabbi ever or anything, I'm also very glad that I know (a pretty good answer)


Basically, I and many other jewish people like to write G-D like that ←- because eventually the page will expire or a paper will be thrown away, so to be very honorable and polite, we don't write the full name so when it is disposed of, it technically isn't throwing out the name of the lord.


and to answer the other part:

Technically speaking G-D is just another informal english spoken nickname that the lord is called by. what happened so far back was a bunch of rabbis decided that "the reallll really really real name of G-D" was forbidden to be spoken because that is some serious official stuff reserved for only some really special occasions or reasons or people, I'm not sure.

So what they did being the silly rabbis that they were, they make a million zillion different nicknames and then they ACTUALLY forgot which one was the original real one.

so now nobody knows if it was pronounced "yahweh" or a bunch of different things.

often in jewish prayer you will see that even in single prayers there are different words used to say G-D at different parts of the prayer.

but to be honest I feel that now it may not be so important necessarily for us humans because G-D knows everything and doesn't need us to know, other than to say "I'm praying to G-D please hear my prayer" for communication to take place.

so everything is alright, and maybe G-D tells us everything when we die of ???? reasons when G-D decides. only G-D knows.

I hope that explains alot.

>>4248
I really loved the feeling of reading your post and sharing the understanding of your perspective and opinions.

>She was Christian and she asked her tour guide what Jews do about animal sacrifice now that the second temple has been destroyed, and the the tour guide said after that some rabbis decided you don't need to do animal sacrifices when you sin anymore, and that a messiah will come someday to wash away the sins that we all accumulate by not doing the animal sacrifices.

>is the tour guide correct?

I wouldn't say they are wrong, that's kind of a good summary of what kinda happened to the best of my knowledge, yet I myself don't properly and totally understand the whole thing, or the mind set behind the rabbi's ways of thinking.

Supposedly G-D tells them early on that they would do animal sacrifices "that way from then on" as if it was a permanent way of doing things, and I don't know what made the rabbis think differently. Perhaps they received signs from G-D that made them confident that it was okay to stop doing that? That could be it, But I don't know.

I personally wouldn't have had the heart to sacrifice any animals but if G-D was shouting at me "YOU MUST DO IT BECAUSE I COMMAND IT!" or something along those lines and I had no doubt in my heart in any way that it was really G-D commanding me to do it, I suppose I would have to follow the orders of G-D even if I didn't really understand. it might even be too much for me, I might possibly pass out on the floor crying about the poor sheep or something… ehh… but I would be much more sad to fail to do what G-D commanded of me.

>And doesn't this sound like something the rabbis thought of after looking at Christianity?
Supposedly, to the very best of my knowledge Judaism has generally always had ideas about some kind of coming messiah that G-D would send when the time was right, and/or that there would be a great happening called the Messiach (mesh-EEE-achhh) *that flem sound achhh* which translates/spells alot like "messiah" and that supposedly Christianity has alot of basis on saying "we found it, it was jesus (who was jewish) and saying "yea it was him! we found THE messiah" and that turned into Christianity, while a bunch of other jewish people disagreed that that was really "the one" and continued on waiting for this messiah that they say hasn't come yet, which people say there are many different names they may/will have.

>christianity: we finally found him!
>judaism: we are still waiting!

and of course they do things kinda differently etc. etc.


>Finally if the messiah needs to wash away your sins and hasn't come yet, does that mean that the Jews are going to a hell or purgatory for thousands of years until he arrives?

I keep hearing that jewish people don't really believe in hell or something, depending on how orthodox or not or deep personal differences in religious faith/ different ideas some people may have, but the vast majority overall supposedly do not believe in hell.

I'm sure that some really enlightened rabbis may be able to give more information on this but this kinda ties into the whole
"messiach" thing. the story goes that when you die, nobody knows 100% for sure what happens or what is going on, but if I may say, if its anything like sleeping, supposedly during the messiach all the people that ever died EVER (thats alot!) would crawl out of their graves and "roll" like rolling pins for like thousands of miles until they reach israel or some other important place and then be rejuvenated and come back to life all healthy again, and at that point everything from then on is "really nice"

I tend to feel like life is a giant virtual reality that G-D made for people to live in as a learning experience, a small slice of "fake reality" created floating within space outside of "real reality where time does not exist" and some people say when you die G-D teaches you everything.

people do make alot of horrible mistakes but I believe that G-D knows how to help everyone eventually somehow, and can undo any evil anyone has ever done. G-D has the ability to do anything, and make everything okay again, so maybe even the worst people get "rehab" I don't know. I always try to be the best person I can be but I'm not perfect and I know it.

Oh, and this might be good theme music for this thread. just sounds cool.

bump for more discussion

>>4335
only if you want to read it.

>>4194
>believe in G
>good thought

>>4285
>undo
That doesn't make any sense.