/atheism/ - Atheism

>Is there a "script" or a series of steps that leads to the conversion of a theist to an atheist?

No because everyone is different. What a silly question.

I wouldn't say there would be a chart, but maybe multiple charts, because many peoples experiences are different. I'll give my story as an example. Unfortunately for me, it was a pathetic, selfish, and very weak reason and the kind of thing /christian/ assumes all atheists are like.

For most of my life, I didn't entirely connect with Christianity. It didn't make sense to me, and I didn't want to admit out of fear that God was a gigantic dick. I didn't understand why I was supposed to love someone I had never seen before. A lot of sermons had contradictions, and so much shit didn't make sense.

I would have probably stayed an unempathetic christian for a long time out of fear though if the revelation that I liked loli (at the time) didn't shake damn near all the foundations of my life. I realized if I told any of my friends this they would disconnect from me, and if I told a priest this in confession, I could pretty much kiss the rest of my life goodbye. There was nowhere for me to go, and I can't count how many freakouts I had during that time.

Since I had nothing to loose at this point, I started to remember all the shit about religion that just didn't make sense, and I realized that the only reason I stuck with religion was because I was afraid God would kill me if I stopped believing. I was still going though freakouts at the time… but at least one thing brought a bunch of clarity to my mind, and that's that the christian religion was a bunch of probably manmade (or misinterpreted) bullshit. But unfortunately for the longest time after that I considered myself agnostic, because I believed picking any side was foolish because there was a chance everything I saw in front of me was just my perception, and I didn't bother to do much thinking as a result. Even though Atheists thought I was foolish, I still thought they were cool though, just not quite on the right track.

But then I found out that most atheists are technically agnostic atheists, people who can't truly prove that there isn't a god, but heavily lean on what we have found. I thought "Sure that makes sense, go with what is the most logical." Then bam. Here I am. While I have a long way to go, I've greatly come to terms with myself, the loli thing has mostly faded away, and while I am still really fucking depressed, I don't really see how lying to myself with religion is going to truly fix that, because my brain isn't wired like that. Not only that, but doing so would be absolutely pathetic, possibly even more pathetic than what led me question all this to begin. I'm sure I can find a way without lying to myself.

Sorry if that was TL;DR and cool blog, it's just that was my experience to show that it's kind of complex for a simple chart, and I'm sure many people's experiences are a lot different. There might be some similarities between everyone though.

I straight up got over it in first grade when I answered as to why I thought it rained and I answered with my hypothesis "maybe the angels get sad and cry." I didnt see any reason to doubt the actual reason, an adult said it and I should listen ammirite?

Then at 12, where I was basically conscious of god/no god, I asked my religious friend what heaven even was. "It was everything you could ever want and more, it is beautiful" blah blah blah Jesus with blazing red eyes and a white beard. Theres just NO way heaven could be what I wanted. All I wanted at the time was an orgy with 50 hot bitches.

It was only later that I heard of the whole forty something virgins promise for extremist muslims. I just found it too funny how they "martyr" themselves for promises of lust when wanting the same thing on my end felt inherently wrong.

>>7502

what the fuck anon

>>7509

ey, everyone has their own weird fetish m8, it's not like the dude is harming anyone.

>>7498

This. Anybody who's a theist would need different information and/or experiences to become an atheist. If you were to try to do this, you would have to figure out what that is for each person you'd de-convert. I don't think it's every theist even has the potential to become an atheist because it runs counter to their personality, and that would have to undergo some fundamental change for atheism to be possible for them.

Well, I never really believed in Lutheranism, turned from a deist(without knowing this label at that time) to an agnostic before entering a stage when I occupied myself with religion and its criticism during my adolescence intensively, only to grow a full-blown fedora.

>>7497

Step 1. Be (somewhat) religious

Step 2. Question your faith

Step 3. Storm of bullshits

Step 4. Athiesm

Or, alternatively:

Step 1. Be a nice and honest christian

Step 2. Be tempted by Shai-Hulud the Consumer of Spice for wisdom and glory

Step 3. Become "athiest" (ie a worshipper of demons)

>>7757

Exactly, atheism is a fad. When people grow up from their teenagehood they stop being illusory rebels and come back to G-d.

The only people who stay atheists during all their lives are mentally ill people (mostly asocials) such as Dawkins and Hitchens.

>>7757

>Conversion

>To atheism

I believe the word you're looking for is deconversion.

>>7760

>implying atheism isn't a religion

You should deconvert from atheism to christianity.

Also, christianity is not a religion, it is merely the Truth.

>>7761

You do know that changing the definitions of common abstract terms are the first signs of a cult, yes? You could say that any religion is the truth, that doesn't make it so. You're just like a tranny saying he's a woman when we all know it's just not true. SJWs belong in Reddit. Go there, you will be accepted.

>>7767

What are you even talking about? There was an argument, you just chose to ignore it.

>>7769

I actually didn't say that you were in a cult, mate. Though you might as well be with as little sense as you're making.

>Insulting someone is immoral

Please, Yahweh murders babies and I'm immoral for trying to tell you that you sound like a cultist? Please. You probably are an idiot and I should probably stop arguing with you, y'know, pigeon and a chessboard and whatnot.

My argument was not fallacious as I was actually correct.

>>7770

>Christians are lunatic

>2 billions people are lunatic

Right.

>>7771

India exists, Africa exists and I think there are a lot more people in those places. Argumentum ad populum.

>>7777

I'll keep trying to make my dick harder and bigger so I can pass it on.

>>7777

I honestly don't know whether these are just extremely shitty strawman pics or parodies anymore

>>7793

It's like Christfags are actually parodying themselves.

>>7777

Yes, send people to a hell because they can't be convinced to believe something. "Oh, but you choose to not believe". No, I've searched the world and the internet for fifteen years for reasons to believe in gods and at one point considered myself a christian yet I don't think I truly believed. If anything, I found more reason to be as I was and skeptical.

>>7758

Gods are fads. The world's growing wise now. The more we learn, the more 'gods did this' is used less because we find out how. In the end, the thought of a universe coming unto itself is just as valid as gods creating it. What created gods? You say they always existed? You could just as well claim the same for the universe. But gods are smart, it takes smarts to create this, you say? We're smart yet all individual components aren't. It's just as wise, I'd argue more wise, to say intelligence is created from the bottom up, from simpler to complex. We see this in evolution also. The real answer is, we don't know how the universe got here but making stupid assumptions makes you look as such. And for practical purposes, millions of things we can't see, feel, touch we can say exist but can't prove yet I've got no time to disprove everyone's gods, magic, demons, etc and for all practical purposes, imo, gods don't exist. That's practical atheism and it holds just as much salt as your "religions of peace" that makes you come to our boards and be edgy, butthurt faggots.

>>7810

I wouldn't call Gods a fad so much as a phase we went through while our consciousness developed the capacity for abstract thought. There are many 6 year olds who have imaginary friends; humanity is simply outgrowing our Gods.

>>7812

Not fast enough however. I'm curious to see how long it will take though. My guess is not in our lifetimes.

>>8002

As long as the friend isn't named God then you are one of us.

>>7497

I found an interesting post I'll copy paste:

I found lolicon when I was deeply religious, and it caused severe anxiety and guilt due to the societal view of it, but I actually found solace in my (former) religion about liking younger girls because, according to most historians and theologians, Mary was around 12-14 when she was betrothed to Joseph, who would have been nearly 30 at the time. I saw this as God's affirmation of the pedophile, even if modern Christians failed to respect God's divine plan.

However, my fall from grace came later as I began to study and pray (and pray, and pray) in order to become a pastor like my father. I had heard atheists (such as Penn Jillette and Christopher Hitchens) say that the quickest way to atheism is to read the Bible, and read the entire thing. I, of course scoffed at them at the time, but surely enough, the more I read, the more I went "What the fuck?".

Initially, this didn't push me away from religion altogether, however. This simply made me doubt the validity of the Bible as a source of divine knowledge. I still believed in the divine/supernatural, so I turned to the ancient religions for solace, and I found a home there for several years. It wasn't until I realized that I was grasping at straws as it were, that I finally admitted to myself that without evidence, belief was empty, and without reason, faith was illogical. As a mathematician, how could I teach logic while still being illogical?

/end rant

>>7777

>hey brother!..

If you don't believe Mom ,she will send you to an awful orphanage. She loves you but can't stand non-believers.

>>7499

I'm sorry there was nobody you could talk to and ask questions.

>>7500

>Also, hell is a ridiculously immoral concept.

It depends on how you see it.

>Satan is just a prison keeper, and an angel that follows God's orders like a dog.

Remember that Job is a poem, it's self-admitted fiction in the Old Testament. It's classified among the poetic books, like Ecclesiastes and the Psalms. It was never read as a factual account and the "God" in the poem is a character representing God but you shouldn't mistake that for the actual God.

>>7502

> I used to think masturbation was a sin, which causes anxiety for someone with a high libido.

I could argue at length about masturbation, but the short version is this: nothing in the Bible is against it. If anyone wants to debate this (even by being the devil's advocate), go ahead, because I know what you're thinking of, but I should be able to be convincing.

>I became devoted to trying to understand whether homosexuality was natural when the bible condemned it, so I would know whether my own inner turmoil was justifiable.

To be exact, homosexuality isn't condemned in the Bible, only homosexual acts, regardless of actual attraction. It may be a detail but it counts.

Fantasising isn't prohibited against in the Bible or Christ's words. Not with a fair amount of bad faith and wishful thinking at least.

> you're much more likely to question your Christian beliefs.

True, but that shouldn't be the end of it. At the end of the day, whether you consider your sins of the flesh to be a problem, it won't make much of a difference if you are heterosexual or homosexual.

I'm not sure I see how it can be a true antidote, though. I can see how it makes you want to get away from it, yes, but that wouldn't convince me. I'm more skeptical.

>>7529

>I don't think it's every theist even has the potential to become an atheist because it runs counter to their personality, and that would have to undergo some fundamental change for atheism to be possible for them.

You largely overestimate people's faith. Faith isn't easy and can be undone. That's why Catholics consider it a virtue. It's something you work on, like a garden.

A chart could be devised, though. You need to find some core beliefs first and then write up questions about that, with relevant back up. I can imagine doing this for certain beliefs that, in my opinion, untenable, like the Bible as literal word of God. This is easily undone for anyone who knows his Bible a little bit.

>>7810

>Yes, send people to a hell because they can't be convinced to believe something. "Oh, but you choose to not believe".

More like, if you haven't been exposed to God, you are technically ignorant of Him. You can't be condemned for this, but God will not force you to love Him, that's what Hell is about, it's about being separated from Him.

>>7812

>>7994

>>7994

Again, god/God is a different thing altogether. Christianity is having a huge boom lately. China has 10 million more Christians each year. China will be the first Christian nation very soon if they continue that way.

There's no real decrease in Christianity overall, despite the propaganda against it (of which the Christians' own propaganda is the worst, though helped by mainstream media; consider the Westboro Baptist Church, they're literally no more than 19 fuckers or something, and they make the news, while thousands of Catholic Charities go unheard and unnoticed).

The idea that time will eliminate religion is dead to me. Polytheistic gods that represent visible phenomena die with science, but a monotheistic God representing the invisible, the unknown, and our origin, that's much harder to kill. Even in Europe, a lot of people are coming back to Christ, and as Europe descends into darkness, more and more people will join Christ, that is my guess.

>>9894

>I'm not sure I see how it can be a true antidote, though.

gay→religion treats you bad→question it because "fuck you assholes"→become an atheist.

It fosters a person's critical thinking skills by forcing them to play the devil's advocate.

>>9897

>The idea that time will eliminate religion is dead to me.

The existing religions are easy to refute by rendering them highly improbable. There is a narrow strip of time in which to refute exisiting religions, before devious soothsayers create the most unprovable, but irrefutable superstition. It will be a religion with Gods so abstract science can't refute it. Unskeptical Atheists that crave spirituality will either follow it, or drown in a pseudo-science cult. It's frightening that we might revert to a new religion or dogma once we've abolished all of the existing ones.

'The virus is evolving and getting harder to kill.'

>>9894

>Fantasising isn't prohibited against in the Bible or Christ's words. Not with a fair amount of bad faith and wishful thinking at least.

Matthew 5:28:

but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

>>7497

Absolutely not. No one single person has the same story and they're all different; ranging from very simple "I read the bible after an argument and realized it was bullshit" like Dusty Smith and "I went through a fifteen year process that slowly slid me from a scale of fundamentalist Christain to agnostic atheist" like me.

>>9899

>It fosters a person's critical thinking skills by forcing them to play the devil's advocate.

Which really isn't hard if you have any critical thinking at all. But even so, disagreeing for personal reasons isn't an antidote, it's a vested interest, sure, but it doesn't mean Christianity is instantly wrong the moment it hurts your butt.

>The existing religions are easy to refute by rendering them highly improbable.

If it were easy, they'd be gone by now.

>It will be a religion with Gods so abstract science can't refute it.

It's not about abstraction, it's simply that mainstream religions are difficult to prove or disprove given their subject matter. There are more direct things we can't prove, like reality. Science doesn't even attempt to prove that reality is real, for instance. It's taken for granted, and if you could know, it wouldn't change your daily life, either. But it can't be proven.

>>9902

That's the exact paragraph I was talking about. It's just covetting, in truth, not "lusting" as we mean in contemporary English. It meant craving and covetting back in the 17th century, it wasn't especially sexual as it has become today.

The Greek word is very specific and means a very long obsession. Like someone who wants Bob's wife for months, with the intention of actually getting her.

Fantasising about Bob's wife isn't covetting, it's daydreaming.

>I could argue at length about masturbation, but the short version is this: nothing in the Bible is against it. If anyone wants to debate this (even by being the devil's advocate), go ahead, because I know what you're thinking of, but I should be able to be convincing.

Something something something…spilled his seed on the ground… something something something… jesus made him dead.

>>9907

Why does your god need such screwed up translations of languages that he created in the first place to confuse and break up people? Why would he be so un-specific?

>>7793

The name for that phenomenon is Poe's Law.

>>11419

"Poe's law" is just an excuse to cover up the fact that most atheists are autistic and unable to read social cues to tell when someone is being satirical or sarcastic.

http://www.examiner.com/article/all-autistic-kids-are-atheists-and-atheism-is-a-form-of-autism

>>7497

I bet you could design a serious of discussion questions that would lead people to it.

The religious have been using things like this forever.

I see no reason why would couldn't adapt one of their successful methods.

May not be exactly what you're looking for, but this video series is the best personal account I've seen of how a person goes from being a theist, to gradually becoming an atheist.

>>7497

I wish I had successfully deconverted someone so I could tell you how it's done. I'm sure someone has had any luck on their siblings?

>>7761

Which Christianity? As you're doubtlessly aware, there are quite a few mutually exclusive flavors.

>>12044

Not to a Christian. To them all churches no matter how drastically different lead to God. I think even the Catholics believe their protestant friends will go to heaven, even though they're going to the one true original church (which isn't the Orthodoxy btw.)

>>12046

No, or at least certainly not a good deal of them. The official doctrine is that salvation is ONLY through the church. How many catholics personally believe in that is another matter.

>all churches no matter how drastically different lead to God

Mormons, JW, and 7th day Adventists technically fall under the banner of christianity but if you ask a hardline christian who's actually read his scripture these people are dangerously heretical and going straight to hell.

>>12047

Right, I should have said most. My father who is a Protestant actually believes the Mormons are misguided by Satan and will go to hell, but his sister will go to heaven because she's a Catholic. We make all kinds of exceptions for family.

>>7757

>atheism is an argumentum ad populum in reverse

If everyone were atheist I would not "rebel back" to superstition to keep being cool and unique.

Atheism is quite common in East Asia and many European countries. That fact roughly proves you wrong. Stop rationalising your own shortcomings.

>>12046

not really. Some religioustards do, some others clearly don't and live their lives criticizing the other sects and accusing them of satanism.

Daily reminder that protestants and catholics still are killing each other in Ireland