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The rejection of belief in the existence of deities

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File: 1436715996195.png (336.64 KB, 400x400, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

050c35 No.9584

>Crusades were caused by religion and totally had nothing to do with power-hungry rich people looking for land

>Communists purging religion? That's just power-hungry dictators eliminating the opposition

What's hilarious is that you people still think you're the poor oppressed intellectuals amongst a society of savages.

5722a0 No.9590

>>9584

I would explain it to you, but you already did it for yourself, statuefag.

The crusades were caused by religion. The elites may have been fighting for land, but the average person in the armies were fighting to take the holy land back from the Muslims. And considering their religion. I can tell you it was definitely not about land. It was about religion. Why? Out of all the lands they could choose to take, they chose Jerusalem. That couldn't have any religious significance at all…

Communists purging religion, yeah, they did. And that falls under the definition of power-hungry dictators eliminating the opposition. I think you're trying to blame atheism from this, though it doesn't make any sense. Religion is dogmatic, it can cause people to murder. A person can't use atheism as a justification for murder. They could, but it wouldn't make any sense. You killed someone because you don't believe in a god. Makes perfect sense…

>What's hilarious is that you people still think you're the poor oppressed intellectuals amongst a society of savages.

Making threads like this kind of makes that statement make sense, even though I don't agree with it, I can see why people think that, especially when they're around you.

You really need to get better bait.


a683e2 No.9591


a683e2 No.9592

>>9591

"It is our duty to destroy every religious world-concept… If the destruction of ten million human beings, as happened in the last war, should be necessary for the triumph of one definite class, then that must be done and it will be done"


5722a0 No.9593

>>9591

>was an atheistic and antireligious organization

Hmm. I wonder why they said atheistic and antireligious when they're both the same thing? /s


7aa5ca No.9611

>I kill people because there is no god!

Seriously OP, this is your "logic"?


dc0af1 No.9620

>>9584

Crusades were caused by being "fruitful", by religious royalty assuming it was approved by their god by right of conquest to expand their people and view.

Atheism is a lack of belief with nothing in common between those that share that belief other than the lack of belief.

Nice meme, though. I speak meme too when my middle school friends are over.


6e4676 No.9643

File: 1436740856406.gif (1.61 MB, 260x200, 13:10, dc8.gif)

>>9584

>killing people because they won't buy into your irrational bullshit

>killing people because you can't logic people out of a position they didn't logic themselves into

Don't get me wrong commie economics and philosophy are shit but they got one thing right.


d5af98 No.9648

>>9584

Commies are against religion because they don't like to share the power. Their ideology had to be the only one.

Even in their propaganda they never said we have to fight the west because they are religious.


745be8 No.9678

File: 1436849271450.jpg (307.15 KB, 444x4000, 111:1000, dont-masturbate-jesus-univ….jpg)

This is basically a Christian board, at this point.


745be8 No.9679

oh yeah I forgot to sage this shit


c77322 No.9744

File: 1437094946187.jpg (7.45 KB, 235x279, 235:279, 1433475486431.jpg)

>Religion in no way gave the rich and powerful a means to manipulate the commoners into dying in agony on foreign soil fighting for spoils they'd never enjoy

>Race based slavery? That's just shrewd businessmen looking out for the future of a valuable commodity.

What's hilarious is that you people still think you're the poor oppressed intellectuals amongst a society of savages.


026743 No.9745


5722a0 No.10250

More statuefag shit. Just ignore it and move on.


bbdf2f No.11044

1


204c58 No.11124

>>9745

Sam Harris is a brainwashed jingoist, that believes by default America has good intentions that can justify anything. He cherry picks passages from a book and extrapolates large strawmen from it. He didn't research the event being talked about, and gets huffy when he's privately shown to be uninformed, and drives himself deeper into the hole because he is unwilling to admit he made some mistakes.

He comes across as very immature and oversensitive, and publishes the exchange. He does so because he thinks he was insulted with bad language so it will look bad for the other party, and because it will bring himself more publicity. He's happy he finally got what he wanted and was debated rather than ignored by the famous linguistician.


6e4676 No.11127

>>9745

>alternet

LOL, couldn't find a more biased source of SJW drivel could you? You may as well have posted Salon.

I can post partisan shit too:

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/05/sam-harris-exposes-noam-chomsky-as-a-pedantic-contrarian-unwilling-to-debate-seriously/

>>11124

>Sam Harris is a brainwashed jingoist, that believes by default America has good intentions that can justify anything.

No he doesn't. And you cannot demonstrate he does without misrepresenting some misquoted cherry-picked statements.

>He cherry picks passages from a book and extrapolates large strawmen from it.

Nice projection. Actually that's what you and his critics do to him, while also misquoting him in the process.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150504005859/http://saiu.org/blog/greenwald-and-hussain-on-sam-harris-and-racism

>He didn't research the event being talked about, and gets huffy when he's privately shown to be uninformed, and drives himself deeper into the hole because he is unwilling to admit he made some mistakes.

More like Chomsky's sophistry with his underlying philosophy being "whatever America does is bad" to the point of defending Islamist retards is annoying when you're trying to have a rational discussion.

>He comes across as very immature and oversensitive,

Chomsky sure does, hence why he resorted to such childish arguments.


204c58 No.11130

>>11127

>And you cannot demonstrate he does without misrepresenting some misquoted cherry-picked statements.

I'm basing my judgment entirely off of his email exchange. He refused to acknowledge the possiblity Clinton had anything but good intentions when he bombed the pharmaceutical factory, and that the resulting collateral damage had to be accidental rather than neglient or malicious. That shows his default bias is to think America are the good guys, like any kid that plays with GI Joe dolls. On this particular incident, Sam Harris didn't indicate he had done nearly as much as research as the author he was trying to refute, and comes across as a Patriot trying to defend his country's honor from 'Anti-Americanism.'

Sam Harris also links to a video where Chomsky briefly says Hitchens (and Harris) follow the religion of the state. Harris either doesn't appreciate it's an allegory for trusting your national authority, or is simply riled by any statement implying he is a "religious fanatic who worships the state."

Harris was less reflective of the nuances, attacked an author for his work without evidence, and then lost the email exchange.


6e4676 No.11131

File: 1441935417997.jpg (53.63 KB, 957x540, 319:180, Corbin.jpg)

>>11130

>He refused to acknowledge the possiblity Clinton had anything but good intentions when he bombed the pharmaceutical factory

Well then you misunderstood his point or are deliberately misrepresenting it.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-limits-of-discourse

>Here is my assumption about the al-Shifa case. I assume that Clinton believed that it was, in fact, a chemical weapons factory—because I see no rational reason for him to have intentionally destroyed a pharmaceutical plant in retaliation for the embassy bombings. I take it that you consider this assumption terribly naive. Why so?

Harris points out the lack of rational reason behind the incident other than Clinton mistaking the pharma plant for a chem weapons plant. Then Chomsky concedes while desperately saying "oh that was my point all along". Such damage control even a toddler can see but you can't.

> That shows his default bias is to think America are the good guys, like any kid that plays with GI Joe dolls.

No, this just shows you're jumping to baseless conclusions based on alternet propaganda

> On this particular incident, Sam Harris didn't indicate he had done nearly as much as research as the author he was trying to refute, and comes across as a Patriot trying to defend his country's honor from 'Anti-Americanism.'

Hardly, Chomsky had nothing than desperate sophistry to look like he won the argument.

>Sam Harris also links to a video where Chomsky briefly says Hitchens (and Harris) follow the religion of the state.

Christianity? Yeah Chomsky just further demonstrates what a moron he is.

> Harris either doesn't appreciate it's an allegory for trusting your national authority, or is simply riled by any statement implying he is a "religious fanatic who worships the state."

But he doesn't blindly trust the state, this is defamation of charterer and any sound person can be riled up about it. I'm gonna call you a fucking idiot and if you dare get upset about it I'll just resort to sophistry. Fuck off, I find it hilarious how an Islamic apologist like Chomsky has the audacity to call anyone religious. But you're irony impaired clearly.

>Chomsky was less reflective of the nuances, attacked an author for his work without evidence, and then lost the email exchange.

ftfy

Idk why you have such a hateboner for Harris or are so fond of a religious apologist like Chomsky. And quite frankly I don't care. You clearly don't belong here so kindly go back to your hole.

>>>/islam/

>>>/tumblr/


6e4676 No.11132

File: 1441936270871.png (52.7 KB, 640x473, 640:473, PF_15.01.05__ReligionCongr….png)

>>11131

And while the US as a country is secular according to the constitution. The state on the otherhand considering the fact that every president for several years now has been a Christard on paper and nearly every congress person and senator is religious shows the state religion being mystical bullshit mostly of the Abrahamic flavor and not atheism. Chomsky is an idiot, plain and simple. No surprise as he's nonSTEM and that's made for retards.


204c58 No.11138

>>11131

>Harris points out the lack of rational reason behind the incident other than Clinton mistaking the pharma plant for a chem weapons plant. Then Chomsky concedes while desperately saying "oh that was my point all along". Such damage control even a toddler can see but you can't.

President Bush used the same excuse to justify invading Iraq. Chomsky is right to be skeptical when governments claim the purpose of attacks are to disrupt WMD production. Sam Harris attacked him for comparing 9/11 to American operations around the world and implying 9/11 was blowback, setting of the e-mail exchange. There would be many reasons to attack a pharmaceutical factory if it were owned by an enemy of the state (Al Queda in this case). True motives aren't necessarily published for public consumption.

However, I have since read that Chomsky lied about the tens of thousands of estimated casualties over 3 months in this exchange, attributing it to the German embassy of Sudan who report no such survey took place. My earlier judgment was entirely based on the email exchange, and I expected Sam Harris to contradict any factual errors Chomsky made if he were as knowledgable. If Chomsky has a history of deception, then I will have to cross check his future citations.

>religious apologist

Chomsky was born Jewish, but I don't think he is religious. He actually opposes Israel.

>But he doesn't blindly trust the state, this is defamation of charterer and any sound person can be riled up about

I think his strong wording comes down to the two occupying opposite sides of the political spectrum. Chomsky calls himself a libertarian socialist, and was an activist in the Vietnam Peace movement. Hitchens and Harris supported Bush.


6e4676 No.11139

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>11137

>President Bush used the same excuse to justify invading Iraq.

Saddam really gave that impression when his officials interfered with UN inspectors. And Hitchens sums this up nicely:

>The entire record of UNSCOM until that date had shown a determination on the part of the Iraqi dictatorship to build dummy facilities to deceive inspectors, to refuse to allow scientists to be interviewed without coercion, to conceal chemical and biological deposits, and to search the black market for material that would breach the sanctions. The defection of Saddam Hussein's sons-in-law, the Kamel brothers, had shown that this policy was even more systematic than had even been suspected. Moreover, Iraq did not account for – has in fact never accounted for – a number of the items that it admitted under pressure to possessing after the Kamel defection. We still do not know what happened to this weaponry. This is partly why all Western intelligence agencies, including French and German ones quite uninfluenced by Ahmad Chalabi, believed that Iraq had actual or latent programs for the production of WMD. Would it have been preferable to accept Saddam Hussein's word for it and to allow him the chance to re-equip once more once the sanctions had further decayed?

>Chomsky is right to be skeptical when governments claim the purpose of attacks are to disrupt WMD production.

You should be skeptical when anyone says anything especially those in power. This goes without saying, both Harris and Hitchens never show disagreement with this. They just take the time to think things through instead of going on the assumption that everything that those white men in government do is evil.

>There would be many reasons to attack a pharmaceutical factory if it were owned by an enemy of the state (Al Queda in this case).

In either case it impedes the enemy which in this case is a massive terrorist organization. They would've just said it was a key installation if that was the case. But this really does seem like a genuine blunder.

>True motives aren't necessarily published for public consumption.

Of course. And it is unfortunately so.

>Chomsky was born Jewish, but I son't think he is religious. He actually opposes Israel.

Sure, but he sucks Islamist dick day in and out.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/05/chomskys_follies.html

He's not a Jew but a Muslim sympathizer which as far as I'm concerned is a traitor to reason.

>Hitchens and Harris supported Bush, and they supported torture.

No actually, neither supported torture. Harris just thinks there might be a case where it is justifiable. That's hardly support.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/08/hitchens200808

https://web.archive.org/web/20150504005859/http://saiu.org/blog/greenwald-and-hussain-on-sam-harris-and-racism

And Harris didn't support the war.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/response-to-controversy

>I have never written or spoken in support of the war in Iraq. This has not stopped a “journalist” like Glenn Greenwald from castigating me as a warmonger (Which is especially rich, given that he supported the war. In fact, in 2005 he appeared less critical of U.S. foreign policy than I am.) The truth is, I have never known what to think about this war, apart from the obvious: 1) prospectively, it seemed like a very dangerous distraction from the ongoing war in Afghanistan; 2) retrospectively, it was a disaster. Much of the responsibility for this disaster falls on the Bush administration, and one of the administration’s great failings was to underestimate the religious sectarianism of the Iraqi people. Whatever one may think about the rationale for invading Iraq and the prosecution of the war, there is nothing about the conflict that makes Islam look benign—not the reflexive solidarity expressed throughout the Muslim world for Saddam Hussein (merely because an army of “infidels” attacked him), not the endless supply of suicide bombers willing to kill Iraqi noncombatants, not the insurgency’s use of women and children as human shields, not the ritual slaughter of journalists and aid workers, not the steady influx of jihadis from neighboring countries, and not the current state of public opinion among European and American Muslims. It seems to me that no reasonable person can conclude that these phenomena are purely the result of U.S. foreign policy.


6e4676 No.11140

>>11139

And that vid is very telling. Hitch actually put himself through waterboarding while that little hippie blowhard Chomsky just spews his overly sensitive Islamic apologism.


6e4676 No.11141

>>11139

And neither supported Bush. I went off on the war there.

“He's a man [George W. Bush] who is lucky to be governor of Texas. He is a man who is unusually incurious, abnormally unintelligent, amazingly inarticulate, fantastically uncultured, extraordinarily uneducated, and apparently quite proud of all these things.”

― Christopher Hitchens


2a6a92 No.11142

>Communists

Are you dumbfucks going to try this conflation bullshit until the end of time?


204c58 No.11166

>>11139

>They would've just said it was a key installation if that was the case. But this really does seem like a genuine blunder.

The bombing took place on the same day cruise missiles landed in Al Queda camps, but failed to kill Bin Laden. The retaliations were for bombings of American embassies, it can't be a coincidence. Hitchens himself said it happened because Clinton needed to look presidential for a day (to overshadow his recent sex scandal.)

>And Harris didn't support the war.

That quotation sounds like a public figure trying to veil his mistaken position after a war gone awry. He is trying to revise his image retroactively when he could not have possibly watched the news and held a perfectly neutral position to begin with in the patriotic days following 9/11, and the propaganda blitz that readied the American public for a war with Iraq. For him to justify the "pre-emptive" bombings of the Pharmacutical factory because of good intentions, means he would be be more likely to support a "pre-emptive strike" on Iraq. Chomsky would have equivocated these.

>>11140

Yes, Hitchens strongly implied he opposed torture in 2008, so I withdraw that point. I have not checked whether he had a different view closer to 9/11. Recognize the New Atheists are public figures, and sometimes speak like politicians.

>>11141

He might have called Bush an idiot, but he consistently supported Bush's policies until he died, and voted for him in the 2004 election. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2009/01/no_regrets.html


6e4676 No.11167

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>11166

>The retaliations were for bombings of American embassies, it can't be a coincidence.

The retaliations were probably due to the embassy bombing but that says nothing on them knowing those were pharma and not chem weapons plants.

>Hitchens himself said it happened because Clinton needed to look presidential for a day (to overshadow his recent sex scandal.)

I don't remember reading that.

>That quotation sounds like a public figure trying to veil his mistaken position after a war gone awry. He is trying to revise his image retroactively when he could not have possibly watched the news and held a perfectly neutral position to begin with in the patriotic days following 9/11

This is so dubious. Fucking weasel language, find me evidence of this. Don't just claim something because of your preconceived notions on someone. I can just as easily say you suck Imams off everyday since you're going through great lengths to smear someone who has been very much opposed to Islam.

>For him to justify the "pre-emptive" bombings of the Pharmacutical factory because of good intentions

He isn't justifying it, he's trying to weigh it to something else.

>Yes, Hitchens strongly implied he opposed torture in 2008, so I withdraw that point.

Maybe you shouldn't make up things about people in the first place. And no he didn't strongly imply, he outright opposed it.

> I have not checked whether he had a different view closer to 9/11. Recognize the New Atheists are public figures, and sometimes speak like politicians.

Chomsky is a public figure too btw.

>He might have called Bush an idiot, but he consistently supported Bush's policies until he died, and voted for him in the 2004 election.

It's actually more like the Kobayashi Maru and he went with what he thought was the least bad option. He gave ample justification why he thought the Dems would've handled post9/11 much worse. Personally both of those parties are shit and I'm not sure which one would fail harder than the other. Dems may appear more on the side of science but it's so superficial considering science gets less than 1 percent of the budget. Also their thing is diversity quotas, which is as bad as creationism being taught in biology classrooms since selecting for worse qualified persons to be a STEM professionals to even out proportions of superficial characteristics stagnates development. I'd never play Civ this way let alone run a country like these idiots.


204c58 No.11182

>>11167

>>Hitchens himself said it happened because Clinton needed to look presidential for a day

>I don't remember reading that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/close-no-cigar/

I did jump to disliking Sam Harris though, partly because of his word choice. He called the United States "a benign giant, which sounded like flamebait, or a naive excuse. He also has clearly supported continuing the wars in the Middle-East which have dragged on for 12 years.

>>11167

>And no he didn't strongly imply, he outright opposed it.

In 2008 he said he opposed torture, and waterboarding was torture. But in 2005 he supported Guantanamo Bay, and strongly implied he supported "rough interrogation," which was a euphemism for waterboarding.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050616001307/http://slate.msn.com/id/2120810/fr/rss/

Until he died, I don't think he ever came out and said Guantanamo Bay should be closed.

>The man whose story of rough interrogation has just been published in Time had planned to board a United Airlines flight and crash it into a skyscraper. I want to know who his friends and contacts were, and so do you, hypocrite lecteur.

>Chomsky is a public figure too btw.

And Sam Harris is right that Chomsky has lost his objectivity, and has problems condemning Muslims. He couldn't even condemn the Charles Hebdo killings without making poor equivocations to Western atrocities. But if I had to choose an initial position for an event, I prefer Chomsky's pessimistic view on government over keeping faith in the existence of "benign giants."


6e4676 No.11187

>>11182

>He called the United States "a benign giant"

Yeah that didn't resonate well with me either. But in fairness compared to Islam the US military are the "good guys". That's just how bad Islam is, they even make the recent American state look good in comparison.

>"rough interrogation," which was a euphemism for waterboarding.

It can be, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. Lets not jump to conclusions again.

>The man whose story of rough interrogation has just been published in Time had planned to board a United Airlines flight and crash it into a skyscraper. I want to know who his friends and contacts were, and so do you, hypocrite lecteur.

I'd like to know too. Doesn't mean we should waterboard them though and Hitch isn't saying we should either with that.

>But if I had to choose an initial position for an event, I prefer Chomsky's pessimistic view on government over keeping faith in the existence of "benign giants."

Better than faith in those who worship Allah. Though both very shitty faith based positions. I'd say it's like deciding between which is better cow or horse shit on this one.


05dcf8 No.12526

>>11132

>Chomsky

>nonSTEM

http://www.diku.dk/hjemmesider/ansatte/henglein/papers/chomsky1959.pdf

he is, or was, a genius, but his getting senile. I'm on Sam Harris' side here.




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