Dust on a bigger dust ball floating through an infinite ocean of nothingness, all alone…for now.
you are literally evolved cum
You're only here to be a slave and to buy shit to keep this facade running.
You have no greater purpose, (((god))) didn't put you here to achieve some great biblical miracle.
You are all cattle. You are all swine.
Wow! Wasting all your time on this shit instead of doing something useful like going out and getting rich.
>idiots who believe the body theory even though it's disproven multiple times over
Come on lets advance the narrative beyond this retardation.
This has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
1. I'm already rich.
2. You have no idea how incredibly important this information is and what else it can reveal in connection with it.
simplest answer: the "self" is the spirit
How may I verify it for myself though and I find out that it is self-existent and not dependent on anything and whatever else attributes define spirit?
According to the audiobook i linked, you can attune the power of the spirit to your Will. It takes time, but the spirit will express itself as it is.
Aside from making the classic ship of theseus mistakes of taking quick, instinctual, and practical classifications and trying to overextend them far beyond anything sensible and then declaring them false, your image fails to realize that the body is a very complex chemical system, and everything from specific chemical intake (nutrition), to gut biota, to mutations in the production and use of various chemicals throughout the body WILL have drastic effects on the brain and sense of self. The brain isn't a stand-alone piece of biology that you can insert into something else without very fundamental consequences.
Take Depression for example, which at times is strong enough to be a defining characteristic of a person. What depression actually is, is an automatic and genetically programmed "sickness" behavior the prevents prevents a person from expending energy and spreading disease. This sickness behavior is activated in response to inflammation markers being generated by some cause, be it real disease, things like a poor diet (carbohydrates and industrial seed oils), genetic mutations that result in chemical imbalances, or even emotional distress.
Depression is just a symptom of inflammation, cure the inflammation and you cure the depression. I had lifelong and severe depression that I got rid of, primarily by changing my diet, removing consumed toxicities and nutritional deficiencies. The entire way I think and perceive the world is different, I am not functionally the same person as now I have a different set of variables involved in how I react to my environment. Trying to identify a threshhold at which point a person is now a different person is about as useful and detached from reality as talking about "equality".
It's better to think of people as biochemical computers. Consciousness is just the "user experience" resulting from the particular set of variables involved. So you can ask yourself, is a program with buggy behavior and corrected version of a program the same? Likewise, everytime you lose consciousness (sleep) is your consciousness actually "dying", with a new instance being generated upon waking with access to all the previous instances saved memories?
If you fear the end of you consciousness, then I encourage you to think of the time before you were born. Think of all the epochs of time that passed and things that happened prior to your first waking, and ask yourself if there is any terror in that. You can take that same lack of terror and apply it to the time and things that will pass after your final thoughts.
the jews did this
>your image fails to realize that the body is a very complex chemical system, and everything from specific chemical intake (nutrition), to gut biota, to mutations in the production and use of various chemicals throughout the body WILL have drastic effects on the brain and sense of self. The brain isn't a stand-alone piece of biology that you can insert into something else without very fundamental consequences.
This is all completely irrelevant.
HO YEAH, BABY! I AM THE LIZARD KING!
> What depression actually is, is an automatic and genetically programmed "sickness" behavior the prevents prevents a person from expending energy and spreading disease
Bizzare because I am extremely active and athletic and expend shitloads of energy every single day but have hardcore depression.
You speak of a "your consciousness" and a "your body".
Which means all that shit you're talking about in your post isn't the self and is irrelevant.
We r our brains
its not hard
shoot yourself in the brain, then we'll see who knows what
already did, now im immortal, lets go faggot
its fine. Stay that way.
Wimp bitch-ass faggot
what a fucking gay nigger, cant even shoot himself
go back to israel, fagjew
No we are not. That is disproven by the fact every cell in your body is replaced.
The body theory isn't a theory, it's principal. People seperate the brain/soul from the body all the time but they are one in the same. If you keep your body healthy, you keep your brain healthy. The body carries out more functions without the brain than the brain itself. Twins are different because there are two of them, you wouldn't say two of the same coins are one coin.
I am not saying we are walking flesh creatures whose every decision is determined by outside forces though. The physical and spiritual world exist, but in unison. Ying and yang and what not.
whatever, nigger bitch. Go back to guzzling donkey cum
Consciousness is not generated through biological processes, think in terms of higher dimensions. The body/brain is a receiver of consciousness.
I hate having to explain this shit over and over, but it's the only explanation.
>every cell is replaced
>therefore we r not even conscious
u r a retard, who doesnt know shit bout biology, psychology or neurology. Shut your whore mouth
i wont steal your thunder, cumrag
>Consciousness is not generated through biological processes
If that's true then do this: stop the biological process of breathing by holding your breath until you actually pass out and that will show you that consciousness is generated by biological processes such as aspiration, which is a fancy word for breathing, by which you metabolize oxygen into your blood in order to keep the cells in your body (and your brain) alive. Stop any of those vital processes and you die, which is to say, you lose your consciousness.
Now, please always take a moment or two to think, first, and re read through your posts so you will be able to stop yourself before you come off looking this stupid and retarded, again.
Not even what I was saying you total fucktard.
>u r a retard, who doesnt know shit bout biology, psychology or neurology. Shut your whore mouth
I know about all those subjects and I also know about something called "philosophy" which you don't.
PROTIP: You are not your consciousness. Consciousness is something that belongs to you but is not YOU.
Show me physical proof of a thought and not merely a bunch of neuron activity that corresponds with a thought happening. Show me the thought itself. Nigger.
We are neither body nor soul (soul is mind).
Thoughts come and go.
How can you think a thing and then forget it?
If you were the thought, you'd go where the thought goes.
We are something beyond mental and physical phenomena.
That sort of navel gazing neither proves or disproves anything. It's a complete red herring.
I have actually done this. I have asphyxiated myself purely to see what would happen. I was terrified as I legit thought I would stop existing and that whoever would wake up in my place would have all my memories and think they are me but wouldn't be me. The fact of the matter is that I experienced no interruption in consciousness. Instead I went into this uber-conscious state where I was more aware and consciousness than ever before, like an ultra-lucid-dream… and then eventually got sucked back into my body like some kind of gravity pulled me back in.
So I didn't even experience the "skipping forward through time" thing that some people apparently experience where they go dark and then the next thing they know they are awake and several hours have passed.
So my consciousness clearly is enhanced by a lack of breathing. Maybe you and a lot of other people are NPCs. I think NPCs don't have dreams they just turn off and then back on.
That's the most reddit tier fucking nonsense I've ever heard, if the body is a receiver of consciousness, if you destroy the receiver you have no way of measuring consciousness.
Like it or not fedora fagget, experiential and existential awareness is the only means by which we have to measure existence of that kind.
It DOES prove that we are not our thoughts, idiot.
I can think about how much of an idiot you are and then one hour later be thinking about a dank meme.
So I am clearly now that thought of how much of an idiot you are, as that came and pass, and yet I still am here.
You're a fucking moron, I've passed out and KNOWN not speculated but KNOWN that my conscious awareness has gone somewhere else.
You're begging the question based on our own very silly assumptions.
I never made such a claim, so you're a huge fucking moron for even responding to me as if I had.
>only that which can be measured exists hurr durr
Also consciousness just gets embodied again in a new body.
You claimed that what I had said proved nothing. It clearly proves exactly what I was saying. You said "That sort of navel gazing neither proves or disproves anything. It's a complete red herring" in reply to me saying that thoughts come and go and our awareness doesn't go along with them.
None of this contradicts anything I've said.
This is what we call confirmation bias, this is happening entirely on your end for your own seemingly masturbatory self benefit.
It describes nothing about anything I've said or the subject matter at hand, you are pointlessly navelgazing for the purpose of projecting this inanity upon others.
You're a true narcissist.
So? What point are you trying to make?
The fuck are you talking about? Are you just trying top gaslight me? What even is your claim? Just state whatever your claim is then again, clearly, so I can address it.
i told u to shut your stupid whore mouth, stupid whore
The point I was trying to make is that materialists are stuck in a cognitive prison of their own devising.
It all comes down primarily to excessively rigid thinking mediated by a pathological fear of humiliation.
You took this discussion down a path I never intended, you're gaslighting yourself in making retarded assumptions, shame on you.
''HURR DURR EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME OR IS PROVING I AM WRONG IS GASLIGHTING ME!" ==
Materialism hasn't even been supported by science for a hundred years. It died in the 1800s. So why are materialists even still around and why do materialists have this pseudo-religion "scientism" where they worship science without understanding it?
Just state whatever your claim is then again, clearly, so I can address it.
Again, please don't be a retarded NPC and take everything as a rigidly convention-based definition.
By materialists I'm referring to anyone utilizing an understanding of physical reality to use as a metric to make speculations or determinations about concepts which do not adhere to the concept of physical reality.
Consciousness or the sense of self is just one such thing.
If you're too retarded to read what I'm posting then curb your fucking autism and go play dwarf fortress or something, you're clearly far too mentally unstable to be participating in a discussion here.
Your excessive desire to control others is repugnant.
Just to be clear, they're; 1, demanding attention from you. 2, are attempting to troll you (but doing a shit poor job of it as all Zoomers do these days.)
The best course of action at this point is to leave the thread and let this attention-whoring faggot queer bitch to sit and stew in their own insanity all by themselves.
The sense of self and also consciousness are NOT THE SELF.
Just state whatever your claim is then again, clearly, so I can address it.
Why can't you do this one simple request you gaslighting trolling faggot?==
>t. has no claims to make at all and is just trolling
I will repeat:
Just state whatever your claim is then again, clearly, so I can address it.
You claimed you had a claim and not you can't even make your claim.
t. samefag talking to himself in order to avoid actually discussing the topic of the thread and making claims
My claim: Thoughts come and go and we don't travel with our awareness with the thought. So we are not our thoughts. We can't be anything that can be taken from us or spoken of as "belong to us". Whatever belongs to us, is not our self.
The counter-claim: That sort of navel gazing neither proves or disproves anything. It's a complete red herring.
Then you pretend you didn't make this claim.
need a lift?
Any fags going to actually answer what the self is?
>Your excessive desire to control others is repugnant.
hahaha how the fuck is he "controlling" you by making a bunch of posts that trigger you?
nigga it's just words on a screen like look away
What's even wrong with being controlled anyways? Seems you don't even understand the beauty of BDSM.
It's what we blame when there are no other people left.
Threads about the self make the NPCs go haywire because they have no self therefore their programming goes apeshit.
So I suspect there are some pretty deep connections to physical reality here especially whether or not a signal is localized to a single "point" in "time". First it would be nice to ascertain the mathematics of consciousness ie can it be described as a recursive non axiomatic logic, global workspace, irreducibly integrated information or what? Okay so let's look more at this ship of theseus, the identity of something as it changes over time, which seems like a sort of human construct… I get the impression that your consciousness is a snapshot of a moment in the present but for some mysterious reason seems completely fluid and seamless and seems to obey notions of locality
But what's the best solution the ancient greeks came up with? Evidently the turtoise and the hare was solved by the notion of mathematical limits. From a purely material standpoint the underlying brain circuits matter sure but what about wavefunction collapse this and quantum fields that- the fundamental spooky action that may or may not underlay everything you are of the "I think therefore I am" variety? Like I just don't know when someone will be in a position to answer that question to everyone's satisfaction.
So who are you, what are you, do you have a soul? Are ready to address the very nature of information itself? Not to address the above post in specific but by all means post the rest of the set post whatever you got
The rest is contained in the article do I have to screencap it all?
If you don't want to visit the site here is an archive of it made 1 year ago.
archive is perfect ty
but uh I got to ask… why are there so many bask-in-the-sun PUA lizards in this thread it's kinda odd like wtf is going on
Wow that's amazing you thought about babies first philosophical question? Aren't you smart?
how smart do I have to be to spray you with my cloaca before dragging you back to the lair *pomf*
u already been told
I find this topic very interesting but reading through all this austistic screeching is hard.
I think that self is only ever momentary. Like, at any moment, I have a self, but in the next moment it is a different self. And while each self may be related, I think they are of themselves independent things.
It is the only way I think you can explain all the thought experiments. It also ties in with what I believe is the correct nature of reality (which isn't relevant, but helps me justify this moment-self to myself).
The answer to who "we" are (as a species) is that we are human beings. The answer to who YOU are can only be defined by YOU according to your own life experience and the wisdom you acquire from having lived it.
Wow! Amazing that you're so new that you have no idea how to address a post to another anon!
Get the fuck back to Reddit
Why is there always some faggot who calls every philosophical question a "babby's first philosophical question" and then fails to actually answer it on top of that.
Also The Self is kind of far-removed from being a first question. I think babby's first question in philosophy is usually "is life meaningful"?
…and it is what?
So are you more with the buddhists or the hindus?
That's not a real answer.
I was replying to OP you troglodyte, replying to the thread serves the same purpose as doing this >>8655365
>and then fails to actually answer it on top of that.
Because there is no straight answer to that question and your dumbass keeps replying to people who are answering for you to a simple "lol no that question isn't correct", like that is in anyway how a philosophical discussion is supposed to be structured. Why should I even bother discussing this with you if you don't even consider the points people are presenting? You wan't a simple answer so even someone with your amount of mental retardation can understand? Here's a couple of questions, are you religious? If yes then human essence is of the soul. If no then it's all in your brain. Case closed, now go to bed you have school tomorrow.
>DO A VIDEO THEN SHIT MUNK
I'm just going to ignore most of your post as it's unproductive to even squabble over most of it and address this:
> Here's a couple of questions, are you religious? If yes then human essence is of the soul. If no then it's all in your brain. Case closed, now go to bed you have school tomorrow.
Explain how I am the brain if I can lose any portion of my brain and still be me. There is no specific point in the brain or nervous system where "I am". Literally every cell in there gets replaced over time and I am still around.
People can have brain injuries and it does not make them any less their self. Just like how you can lose an arm and you're not any less yourself.
This implies multiple things:
2. Holographic principle
3. Distributed consciousness
You think it's all "case closed". No it's not. We are clearly not the brain.
As for religion, it's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, except in so much as it gives me an actual technique (such as certain buddhist meditation techniques) that could be used to discover and verify the nature of the self.
You want to see a video of someone being asphyxiated? The fuck is that going to prove? You can't see in a video that I am having conscious thoughts.
In the medical literature however that are cases of people being under sedation reporting being aware of their surroundings and talking about what happened around them when they "wake up" in accurate detail. Maybe this would interest you? If so check out "Sorcery by J. Finley Hurley".
I don't know, I've not read up on either religions views. Could you link me to something digestible on them? Perhaps my views have already been expressed by others much wiser than I am.
>People can have brain injuries and it does not make them any less their self.
>dis nigga's never heard of Phineas Gage
Over the past ~150 years, a huge amount of evidence has accumulated that changes to the brain, due either to injury or to disease or some other organic process, can cause profound changes in personality, behavior, perception, etc. The fact that you're not only not engaging with this but don't even seem to be aware of it means that you'd not remotely prepared to be participating in this conversation. Sorry. You've got a few months of reading to do. Fuck off.
> can cause profound changes in personality, behavior, perception, etc.
Cool you just listed a whole bunch of things that are NOT THE SELF and have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SELF as the only BELONG TO THE SELF but are in fact NOT THE SELF.
I don't give a shit if changes to the brain affect a whole bunch of things that aren't even me.
I am not my thoughts, I am my body, I am not my perceptions, I am not my personality, I am not a behavior, and I am not a process.