/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I believe we are in the last days.

Probably the most convincing evidence of this is found in the fulfillment of Bible prophecy found in Daniel.

Specifically King Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

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Hopefully we can all see the truth of that. It should be quite obvious that we are in the last days.

I feel that history has confirmed that prophecy, and has us at the end of it.

But if anyone disagrees on that point, please speak up.

I am also lead to believe that events described in Revelation are already happening.

What are your opinions on that notion?

I look forward to hearing your views.

PS

Feel free to link videos, I will watch almost anything.

>>2061

Strange video.

>>2061

You would be just like everyone else since Revelation was written. The author himself believed he would see Armagedon in his lifetime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

>>2069

>Behold, I am coming like a thief.

That was Jesus speaking, and He was referring to Himself.

>>2115

>Strange video.

Why do you think it's strange?

>>2120

I agree.

>>2121

You are implying that I am wrong on the basis that people have been wrong in the past.

Truth is they have, but that has absolutely nothing to do with me.

If you rephrase the statement, you can clearly see it is illogical.

>People were wrong in the past, therefore you are wrong now.

You see how that does not follow.

I made that claim on the basis of fulfilled prophecy.

If you do not believe this is the case, please explain why.

Also I was not predicting any specific date.

I believe what Jesus said about no man knowing the day or hour.

But I also believe He said "when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors."

I have another question for everyone.

What is you view on the rapture?

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I was kinda expecting to reach somewhat of a consensus on the notion that we are in the last days, and had hoped we could move on to things like how far along are we, and what to expect next.

I might try to work up a good post outlining what I think this weekend, but the truth is I know very little.

I would only claim for certain that we are in the last days, beyond that and it gets tricky.

>>2131

>I was kinda expecting to reach somewhat of a consensus on the notion that we are in the last days

Once you dive into history you'll find there have been dozens of Anti-Christs written about in every century. Attila the Hun, Napolean, Stalin, Hitler, and Saddam have all been given the title. Minor kings you've never heard hundreds of years ago were also called the Anti-Christ because the Papal state was in war with them during the Protestant schism. Aren't there supposed to be 3 Anti-Christs right? What's the chance a single of the 3 has appeared within the last two hundred years out of 2,000 years?

>>2145

> dozens of Anti-Christs written about in every century.

So.

My claim was that we are in the last days, based on the fact that in the the prophecy concerning King Nebuchadnezzar's dream has been fulfilled up to the feet of iron, and clay.

That was the last one before it was destroyed.

That is the one we are in now.

Therefore clearly we are in the last age, or the last days.

>Aren't there supposed to be 3 Anti-Christs right?

Matthew 24:5

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

>What's the chance a single of the 3 has appeared within the last two hundred years out of 2,000 years?

By this logic they would have rejected Christ.

I mean, He died once for all, what are the odds of Him doing that at any particular time?

I'd say about a third less likely than what ever odds you assign to one of 3 antichrists showing up.

The point is you must look at the facts, not at the odds.

>>2146

>I'd say about a third less likely than what ever odds you assign to one of 3 antichrists showing up.

That would actually be 2/3 less likely.

Or rather a third as likely.

Anyways, the point remains the same.

>>2146

>My claim was that we are in the last days, based on the fact that in the the prophecy concerning King Nebuchadnezzar's dream has been fulfilled up to the feet of iron, and clay.

The bible and particularly Revelation is full of vague prophecies. That's why so many end times have already been interpreted. You simply think your time is more important than all of the history before it, and that will probably follow it.

Someone is making money from the prophetic documentaries, and from every Left Behind book. Entire churches have been founded because of this, including the LDS and Jehovah Witnesses. Martin Luther even wanted to remove Revelation because he thought it was apocryphal. What if he was right?

>>2159

Forgot to add, even before Isis/Syria signs I heard people saying the China was written in revelation. My grandmother told me Germany was, and that Germany would rise again. I've heard the USSR was supposed to represent the bear. By the time I die I expect people be saying India houses the Anti-Christ.

>>2131

>>2131

>That was Jesus speaking, and He was referring to Himself.

And he will come in the last days and lead the armys against the antichrist afaik. In fact I wanted to cite this one though ;^)

Thessalonians 5:2

" For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief at night"

Should read whole of Thessalonians 5 though, it is worth it.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205&version=NABRE

>>2159

>What if Martin Luther was right?

uncontrollable laughter.png

>>2131

>Why do you think it's strange?

Not sure. Just seems strange to me.

>>2061

He didn't say what clay is.

This is the problem with that prophecy. It works just fine until we get to the toes, there everything goes to shit and you get as many interpretations as readers.

>>2159

>The bible and particularly Revelation is full of vague prophecies.

I was not referring to Revelation, I was referring to Daniel.

Furthermore the dream might have been vague, but the interpretation was fairly clear.

What part are you having trouble with?

>>2160

You're using the same argument as >>2121

>People were wrong in the past, therefore you are wrong now.

I suggest you change tactics, as this logic has already been shown to be false.

>>2161

>the day of the Lord will come like a thief at night

Matthew 24:33

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

>know that it is near

>even at the doors

>>2165

>Not sure. Just seems strange to me.

Fair enough.

Be sure to let me know if you ever figure out what it is that is weird about it.

>>2172

>He didn't say what clay is.

It's the last civilization or age before the rock smashes it.

How did you miss that part?

>>2197

>It's the last civilization or age before the rock smashes it.

How did he arrive at that conclusion? Babylon had lots of gold, Medes had shitton of silver, Macedonians relied heavily on bronze and Romans on Iron. How is the clay relevant and apparent whilst taking the last civilisation into consideration? What markings of last civilisation show the "clay" quality? If that was specified then I must've missed that but I don't think it was.

>>2201

>How is the clay relevant?

Dunno, I think it is a representation of a degradation of glory.

>What markings of last civilisation show the "clay" quality?

Again I don't know.

>If that was specified then I must've missed that

It was obvious when the ten distinct groups of people took over in place of Rome.

Since this follows Rome, or the "legs of iron", and since it was involving ten peoples or "toes", I conclude that we are in that period.

Perhaps someone else can shed some light on the aspect about clay.

>>2202

>Perhaps someone else can shed some light on the aspect about clay.

The point is the video has not. The interpretation is incomplete which makes it clear that it's author is another blind man leading the blind.

This has to be one of the most frequently cited and at the same time one of the most vague prophecies from the whole Bible. I simply don't see it's utility.

>>2203

It seems like you are saying↓

>He does not know everything, therefore he knows nothing.

I think your logic is flawed.

You admit that the other ones are right.

What comes after Iron legs of Rome? The feet. i.e. the last one.

It does not mater who they are, or how they are represented.

The age after Rome is the last.

We are them, therefore we are in the last days.

>>2205

>>He does not know everything, therefore he knows nothing.

>I think your logic is flawed.

I think you should assume less.

>You admit that the other ones are right.

So why does it seem to you that I said he knows nothing? What I've said is that I don't trust him on the part of interpretation that's most important that causes most controversy.

>We are them, therefore we are in the last days.

Last days lasting over 1,5 k years so far.

Again, I don't see the point of this prophecy.

>>2209

>You have no clue (…) when the end of the world is coming

Actually this might not be unanswerable mystery provided the Epistle of Barnabas is correct. If this is the case humanity has a week of 6k years prescribed before the millennial sabbath.

>>2209

>>2205

The Roman Empire ended in 1918 actually.

>>221

>6k

Humans invented the calendars and their starting point. Humans like round numbers. God would not care about our mathematics.

>>2209

>You are as unlikely to guess correctly as your ancestors were

Didn't I already speak to this? >>2131

People were wrong in the past, therefore you are wrong now.

If you disagree that's fine

But if you wish to convince me that I am wrong, you will have to use a more logical form of reasoning.

>>2243

It is not that I said you must be wrong, but history shows you are very, very unlikely to be right. Can….you….get into logic?

>>2241

To add to this, what makes anyone think God in his perfectionuses ten as a base rather than two, seven, thirteen, or seventeen? Because we have ten fingers we assume it is the most perfect number for our convenience. Ten sets of ten is a hundred, and ten sets of a hundred is a thousand, and God always tries to operate in our even numbers? What if God operates in seventeen sets of seventeen because he considers that a prettier number?

>>2262

>It is not that I said you must be wrong

I'm glad you can see that.

>but history shows you are very, very unlikely to be right. Can….you….get into logic?

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think its logical. see >>2146

>>What's the chance a single of the 3 has appeared within the last two hundred years out of 2,000 years?

>By this logic they would have rejected Christ.

>I mean, He died once for all, what are the odds of Him doing that at any particular time?

>I'd say about a third as* likely than what ever odds you assign to one of 3 antichrists showing up.

>The point is you must look at the facts, not at the odds.

*corrected my original mistake.

Anyways, even if you do not believe we are in the last days, Jesus told us to watch for His return.

Matthew 24:42

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

>>2266

I interpret Matthew to mean you should live a moral life and watch yourself for you do not know when it will end.

>>2267

Did you read that verse in the context of the passage?

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/24.htm

Matthew 24:36-41

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

>But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

>And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Then we get to 24:42

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

And goes on to say

Matthew 24:44

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

He says to be ready, because you don't know when the Son of man cometh.

He does not say, be good, because you don't know when you will die.

>>2160

>Isis/Syria signs I heard people saying the China was written in revelation. My grandmother told me Germany was, and that Germany would rise again. I've heard the USSR was supposed to represent the bear. By the time I die I expect people be saying India houses the Anti-Christ.

>>2209

> In a few hundred years it will be South America vs the trans-pacific colonies of Australia, United Democratic Korea and South Africa. You have no clue what empires have yet to arise, or when the end of the world is coming. You are as unlikely to guess correctly as your ancestors were.

I would take these posts as further evidence that we are in the last days.

2 Peter 3:3,4

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Isn't that what you guys were implying, that people have been saying this for years, and that things will continue as they were?

You are the scoffers, and these are the last days.

Both of them are the same to me. You die on a day or the world ends. Either way the world ceases to exist from your perspective, and there is nothing you can do except to live a moral life.

>>2270

Don't you think there have been people aware of the history of failed prophecies who have scoffed for thousands of years? If there is a specific verse in Revelation that says the end of the world is near when mankind visits the moon and is Interconnected through an electrical apparatus called the internet, please show show me so I can recognize the signs.

>>2272

>Don't you think there have been people aware of the history of failed prophecies who have scoffed for thousands of years?

Do you still think that makes me wrong now?

I thought we been through all this.

>If there is a specific verse in Revelation that says the end of the world is near when mankind visits the moon and is Interconnected through an electrical apparatus called the internet, please show show me so I can recognize the signs.

The fulfillment of prophecy in Revelation 7:7-9 was not possible until television, and sound more relevant given the rise of the internet.

Revelation 7:7-9

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

>And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

It would not have been possible for for everyone on earth to have seen them being that they are only there 3 and a half days.

It is now possible for this event to happen, whereas it was not possible in the past.

TV would have made it possible, but internet makes it even easier to fulfill.

A single webcam could broadcast this worldwide.

>>2272

>the internet

Daniel 12:4

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased

>even to the time of the end

>and knowledge shall be increased

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet#Usage

"Educational material at all levels from pre-school to post-doctoral is available from websites."

"Examples range from CBeebies, through school and high-school revision guides and virtual universities, to access to top-end scholarly literature through the likes of Google Scholar."

"For distance education, help with homework and other assignments, self-guided learning, whiling away spare time, or just looking up more detail on an interesting fact, it has never been easier for people to access educational information at any level from anywhere."

"The Internet in general and the World Wide Web in particular are important enablers of both formal and informal education"

"The low cost and nearly instantaneous sharing of ideas, knowledge, and skills has made collaborative work dramatically easier"

Since knowledge is increasing, doesn't that suggest that we are in the "time of the end"?

You have to admit that the internet has prompted a dramatic rise of information.

People have access like never before, to seek out knowledge.

The invention of the internet made possible the increase in knowledge, and in my opinion seems to fit the description of the end times, as described in Daniel.

>>2278

And the invention of the printing press or adoption of literacy was not enough to fulfill that prophecy? You have confirmation bias and now everything can become a sign the world will end in your lifetime. By your logic we will be free of the fullfilment of the prophecy until every remote tribe in the Amazons and every uncontacted primitive islander gets a computer, and every retarded boy learns how to read the gospels. In that case we have at least a few hundred more years.

>>2280

>And the invention of the printing press or adoption of literacy was not enough to fulfill that prophecy?

Perhaps, but that does not refute the notion that we are in the last days, it confirms it.

The prophecy has been fulfilled, therefore we are in the last days.

>You have confirmation bias and now everything can become a sign the world will end in your lifetime.

You have denial bias, and now everything can be dismissed as being false.

>By your logic we will be free of the fullfilment of the prophecy until every remote tribe in the Amazons and every uncontacted primitive islander gets a computer, and every retarded boy learns how to read the gospels.

It did not say every single person, it said "they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations"

I take that to mean around the world, and not every single person on earth.

Same with the Gospel.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It says "all the world for a witness unto all nations".

It does not say to every person individually.

>>2282

>And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

An article from five years ago claimed this would be completed in 15 years.

If this is true, then we would have at least 10 more years, before the end could come.

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_15346948

"About 2,200 languages remain without a Bible. About 350 million people"

Isn't that only 5%? (assuming the earths population is 7 billion)

That would mean that prophecy is 95% fulfilled.

Or in other words. Almost completed.

It's also interesting that the article mentions the internet, and how much of a help that has been.

>>2283

Translation doesnt mean people are reading them. How many Japanese have read a page from the bible? To my knowledge there are only two translations of it into Japanese bcause they simply do not care.

And how many people has misrepresented the bible when evangelizing? Do those misrepresentations count for the prophecy? How about people who are approached in Saudia Arabia by a Christian with a brochure and they decide in their ignorance it's not worth paying attention to him. Is that meeting equivilant to a hard presentation on God?

>the printing press confirms we are living in end times

The printing press is nearly a thousand years old.

We have barely penetrated Islamic countries where conversion of a muslim is a crime, or North Korea. And behold, there are still uncontacted tribes.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24090-how-many-uncontacted-tribes-are-left-in-the-world.html

>>2283

>Then I hope they slow down the speed of the translations. Wouldn't want to live to see the end of the world myself since it will be so horrible, and they are accelerating it.

>>2284

>We have barely penetrated Islamic countries.

Barely is not the same as uncontacted.

Just because they refuse to listen does not mean they have not been told.

>http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24090-how-many-uncontacted-tribes-are-left-in-the-world.html

"How many uncontacted tribes are still left?

No one knows for sure. At a rough guess, there are probably more than 100 around the world"

If we generously assume that each of these tribes is a million people

That's still only 450 million people out of 7 billion.

That's still only 6.5% of the earths population.

Which still leaves us at the almost completed stage.

And that's also assuming these people were not accounted for in the previous study.

>>2285

Matthew 16:23

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

>>2284

>The printing press is nearly a thousand years old.

more like about 500

>We have barely penetrated Islamic countries where conversion of a muslim is a crime, or North Korea. And behold, there are still uncontacted tribes.

Most Islamic countries hold a rather large persecuted minority of Christians.

>>2285

>Wouldn't want to live to see the end of the world myself since it will be so horrible

Why will the end be horrible?

It will be glorious, Christ coming back and defeating the enemy of man.

>>7940

>biblical literalism

not even once

>>7941

How do you interpreter that?

If its symbolic what does Nile means?

>>7945

>How do you interpreter that?

not at all I'm not protestant ;^)

>If its symbolic what does Nile means?

Let's see…

>>7940

>the Nile will dry up and no one will live in Egypt for forty years.

Egypt. Egypt is the slave house and land of bondage of Israel, Israel being the Church.

40 is a symbolical number, it likely does not mean literal 40 years. 40 as a number is used for tests usually, ie 40 years in the desert or 40 daysfasting etcpp

The Nile is the only source of life in Egypt.

So Christians will be free for a certain amount of time from the evil forces of the world, and in this time they will be tested, because the source of evil itself will drown away, the apocalypse will not happen before this test.

This was just an example, as I said I do not interpret by myself in the end. I just wanted to show how this could work, it is no actual exegesis of course, without any sources not even a bible verse.

But reading this and then think that the literal egypt will dry out and be uninhabited? Maybe, but I do not think so.

>>7950

What does your church says?

Do they just ignore bible passages?

first of all, the Jews will have to rebuild the temple, and then start sacrificing again, so that the antichrist can halt the sacrificing and take the throne at Jerusalem

(Daniel 9:27)

I am certain the allegorys Of revalations do infact depict the modern world