/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Can you use the rosary to pray "for" someone?

>>2215

Of course.

You even explicitly pray for the souls in purgatory and allthat needthe help of the lord.

So it is essential where you have your focus on while praying if you are focusing on something I guess.

>>2216

>You even explicitly pray for the souls in purgatory and allthat needthe help of the lord.

I admit I can't pray the rosary the way a Catholic is supposed to. I have learned more prayers by heart now, but I haven't learned the Creed by heart and I'm not 100% with the other prayers, so I don't have the line about it.

Suppose you pray the Jesus Prayer, for instance, can you pray for someone else that way? Catholics are supposed to pray the rosary while focusing on Christ's life at various stages, the mysteries (which I can't do because I have to focus on just remembering the prayers for now), so can one focus on thinking about others while repeating "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me"?

It sounds contradictory but I am curious. If I thought the Jesus Prayer was just whining about oneself, I wouldn't use it, so I assume there's more to it, like a mantra, than just the bare words.

>>2218

>Suppose you pray the Jesus Prayer, for instance, can you pray for someone else that way? Catholics are supposed to pray the rosary while focusing on Christ's life at various stages, the mysteries (which I can't do because I have to focus on just remembering the prayers for now), so can one focus on thinking about others while repeating "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me"?

You can, why shouldn't he listen?

On the other hand an essential part of prayer is also the way you yourself are changed through praying, less what you might "get out of it".

So it would be better if this person would also pray himself.

Not always possible of course, maybe he doesn't pray or is an atheist.

> so can one focus on thinking about others while repeating "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me"?

I don't see any bad coming from this.

I myself think a lot about the souls in purgatory while praying the rosary.

>like a mantra

similar. you start controlling your breathe, focus on things, remain calm and quiet, it is a good exercise.

>>2216

>So it is essential where you have your focus on while praying

My focus when I pray the rosary (my way) is to try and get in tune with God, or something like that. I prefer to pray repeating established prayers and blank my mind, to clear the airways, so to speak, because the sort of prayer where you talk to God only makes me feel bad. For ten years, I have never been able to beat the stage where you feel like you're just pretending. Maybe people who received their faith as children won't understand this, but I started trying to pray long after the age of 20, and I never got that fake feeling out. Praying known prayers removes that of the focus. It's my preferred way. Tune out of the world and into God, or at least that's what I imagine I'm trying to do.

How I pray the rosary for now:

>hold crucifix, pretend someone is reciting the Creed, since I don't know it by heart

>Our Father

>3 haily marys

>glory be

>our father

>then I do a round of Jesus Prayer, with variations of it, longer or shorter, according to what feels better, generally doing "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me." I add "Son of God" and "a sinner" in their respective places to get a longer prayer. Depends on rhythm.

After that, I do another round but this time with Hail Marys and Our fathers and Glory bes.

I generally can't finish a round of that though. I fall asleep before it happens. I frequently fall asleep with my rosary in hand.

>>2220

seems fine

>>2219

>You can, why shouldn't he listen?

I don't know. I'm sometimes very unassuming about God, like I have no idea what He's about. Nothing is certain to me when it comes to God or faith, so I wonder.

>On the other hand an essential part of prayer is also the way you yourself are changed through praying, less what you might "get out of it".

I virtually never pray to ask for something, if that's what you mean. I did last night because my life is about to get crashed every which way and people around me are taking damage, figuratively, but otherwise I don't.

I imagine praying does me good.

>I myself think a lot about the souls in purgatory while praying the rosary.

Any details on how this works? Praying for souls in purgatory? Also, can souls in purgatory pray? Or in Hell and Heaven, for that matter.

>it is a good exercise.

With any spiritual qualities in your opinion, or just physical?

>>2220

> I have never been able to beat the stage where you feel like you're just pretending.

Performing rituals is good.

The best way to grow stronger in faith if ou don't believe in God is still to pray.

Kissing crosses, kneeling in front of the altar, taking the eucharist…etc

If you let your body do these things your mind will follow sooner or later.

>>2222

Quads.

I have that pic. I also have the Laudate app on my phone. Sometimes I read the Creed from there.

I don't know how I can recite all these and at the same time focus on Christ's life. My attention span is fully focused on saying the right words in the right order. For some reason, I still get things wrong, even though I've recited them hundreds of times across the years.

I came to think demons are fucking with me because I don't have a deficient memory otherwise. I used to be able to do the rubik's cube (a maths rosary), but I always always get my Our Father wrong and have to restart.

Hail Marys are good to go now.

>>2223

>Any details on how this works?

Works? It is not like work, I just pity them a lot and their fate moves me.

>Also, can souls in purgatory pray? Or in Hell

In hell most certainly not.

Purgatory is a part of heaven, however, so it should be possible.

According to a Marian appaeration it was the southern slavic one iirc purgatory has different circles, some closer to hell, some closer to heaven.

The closer souls are to heaven the more their prayers are received which resolves them of their suffering eventually.

However this takes a long time. So the souls in purgatory are in need of our prayers according to it

>>2224

>Performing rituals is good.

I get the same ill feeling doing rituals. I feel like I'm just faking it and closing my eyes on my faking it, or at best, I feel nothing.

When you tried to pray in St. Peter's and felt empty, you don't know where else to go.

I do some of the stuff you say, though. Problem now is I'm unsure whether God is happy with me or hates me (generally depends on who I've been talking with).

>>2226

>Works? It is not like work, I just pity them a lot and their fate moves me.

I meant how our prayers help them, the mechanics of metaphysics, if you will.

>According to a Marian appaeration it was the southern slavic one iirc purgatory has different circles, some closer to hell, some closer to heaven.

That's Medjugorje all right.

>>2226

>it was the southern slavic one iirc

http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje/heaven-purgatory-hell/612-description-of-purgatory.html

here.

>>2225

> My attention span is fully focused on saying the right words in the right order. For some reason, I still get things wrong, even though I've recited them hundreds of times across the years.

Don't obsess over it too much, you can't really do something wrong.

>>2227

> whether God is happy with me or hates me

he hates you not, he loves you.

You can't be good enough for God. He's perfect, you will never be.

He knows that, that's fine.

>>2228

>I meant how our prayers help them, the mechanics of metaphysics, if you will.

>>2229

>link

“There are several levels in Purgatory. The more you pray on earth, the higher your level in Purgatory will be…The lowest level is the closest to hell, where the suffering is the most intense. The highest level is closest to Heaven, and there the suffering is the least. What level you are on depends on the state of purity of your soul. The lower the level the people are on in Purgatory, the less they are able to pray and the more they suffer. The higher the level a person is in Purgatory, the easier it is for him to pray, the more he enjoys praying and the less he suffers…The Blessed Mother has asked us to pray for the souls in Purgatory. They are helpless to pray for themselves. Through prayer, we on earth can do much to help them. The Blessed Mother told me that when souls leave Purgatory and go to Heaven most go on Christmas Day.”4

“Many people were there. They were suffering immensely…They were normal people, all kinds. There was much physical suffering…I could see the people shivering, thrashing, and writhing in pain…I saw this place for a short time…The Blessed Mother was with me (during the vision). She explained to me that She wanted me to see Purgatory. She said so many people on earth today do not even know about Purgatory…I could not hear them. I only saw them. The Blessed Mother said so many people who die are quite abandoned by their loved ones. They cannot help themselves in Purgatory. They are totally dependent on the prayers and sacrifices of the generous people on earth who remember them. Our Blessed Mother hopes Her own children will help the souls in Purgatory by prayer and fasting and various penance for the poor souls to make restitution for them…Those who have died no longer have free will as they had on earth. They no longer have a body. It is no longer possible for them to make up for the things that they did when they had their body that hurt and harmed themselves and others. On July 24, 1982, the Blessed Mother said:‘We go to Heaven in full conscious of the separation of the body and soul. It is false to teach people that we are reborn many times and that we pass to different bodies. One is born only once. The body, drawn from the earth, decomposes after death. It never comes back to life again. Man receives a transfigured body. Whoever has done very much evil during his life can go straight to Heaven if he confesses, is truly sorry for what he has done, and receives Communion at the end of his life.’ Our Lady said that the souls in Purgatory can see their loved ones during those moments when we pray for them by name.”5

[…]

“The Blessed Mother told me that those who go to Purgatory are those who prayed and believed only occasionally – that they were filled with doubt, that they were not certain that God exists. They did not know how to pray while on earth, or if they did know how, they did not pray…Souls in Purgatory suffer. If no one prays for them, they suffer even more.”8

>>2223

>With any spiritual qualities in your opinion, or just physical?

Both.

The spiritual ones being more important of course.

>>2229

>Don't obsess over it too much, you can't really do something wrong.

Probably right. I feel like a little schoolboy about this stuff, because it's still new and sorta alien to me, despite the years.

I first started praying the rosary back in 2005 or so. I had found my grandmother's rosary (though she was Protestant, oddly enough). My grandmother died of cancer and before that, she turned to absolutely everything to be saved, from the worst scams to the rosary (I suppose). I learned two prayers, Haily Mary and Our Father, and I used it at night to combat anxiety and the rest. I wasn't religious enough to do it religiously, but I liked to pretend I was praying. I think it did help focus my mind and forget about the rest, though it made me feel crazy (nobody Catholic around, or Christian, doing stuff nobody else does or talks about makes one feel very special in a bad way).

>>2230

Thanks. I have a book on Medjugorje but after some inquiries, the case fell out of grace for me. Stuff like the time when Mary first appeared to them as a horribly defaced demon and then just apologised about "that"… That doesn't go smoothly with me. Also the duration of it is not typical of confirmed apparitions. This has been going on since the early 80's.

Have you ever read Swedenborg's Heaven & Hell? It's a fascinating read. He claims to have been talking with angels for 17 years and says he visited both Heaven and Hell.

>>2233

> the case fell out of grace for me.

Yes.

I'm wondering why the church does neither confirm nor dismiss it. Surely they made investigations.

On the other appearations I'm fairly sure though.

>>2233

>Have you ever read Swedenborg's Heaven & Hell?

No, only heard of it.

> He claims to have been talking with angels for 17 years and says he visited both Heaven and Hell.

sounds schizo-typical to me, which is why I never read it :^)

Good night then, I have to go to bed.

>>2234

>I'm wondering why the church does neither confirm nor dismiss it. Surely they made investigations.

The simple reason is that it's ongoing. The Church will never conclude anything about an ongoing case.

I doubt it'll get anywhere though. The one other case that lasted this long turned out to be a fraud, so Medjugorje has probably lost its chance.

That said, weird stuff does happen there, I just wouldn't assume it's of God. Turning crucifixes into gold isn't really the sort of miracle God is into, or so I understand.

>>2234

>sounds schizo-typical to me, which is why I never read it :^)

it's too organised to be schizo. We can discuss it some time, as I've read the whole thing. It's either a brilliant creation or it's real, but Swedenborg was no lunatic.

I thought you were American… Sounds like you live in Europe?

I'm off soon. Nighty.

>>2236

>it's too organised to be schizo.

schizos can be very organized, especially if they are maniacs.

Psychical disabled people are usually rather normal and "lack" some qualities in one field, or a cluster of similar ones.

>I thought you were American

Why?

>Sounds like you live in Europe?

Yes.

>>2247

>Why?

Because half this website is American.

>>2247

Swedenborg lost no mental abilities or anything of the sort. If we doubt him for the things he claims to have seen, we must also doubt whoever said similar things before, including Paul, the Apostles, Mary Magdalena, and many more.

I'm more wondering whether he lied (and if so, why) or if he didn't lie, who appeared to him and took him on a ride. If we assume it was some devilry, we have to wonder what other devilry showed up the same way.

The overwhelming majority of schizophrenics only hear voices that don't exist. A much smaller portion get visual hallucinations, and those are about as organised as dreams and nightmares. Nothing of the sort Swedenborg wrote about.

It seems he was chosen for having been a prominent atheist at the time, a mind already recognised and famous. When he turned Christian, everybody immediately abandoned him for being a lunatic.

His book is a most interesting read, however.

For my life, my family, and this board.

I pray for all of you too.