/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>2968

When it comes to mortifying the flesh, one must tread carefully.

It shouldn't be done as a complete rejection of the flesh, God created us and that's good.

Rather, mortification should be a precaution to prevent abuse of the flesh.

The Church has gone to draw a line on what is acceptable and not.

If it draws blood or grievously injures the person, it's sinful.

Otherwise, with the right intentions, it can be spiritually fulfilling.

As for the Philippines, the Church has outright condemned some of the stuff they do, saying it goes too far.

Plenty of saints have mortified their flesh before, but it's not for everyone.

I'd talk to a priest before attempting it, though.

>>2973

This is good advise. I will do more research and try to experiment with this safely and see how it goes, thank you.

>Of course, I'd recommend coming to talk to a Catholic priest, but I have a feeling you're convicted to Mormonism.

Yes I am, though if I find some success with this, I've a Catholic church pretty close and I wouldn't be opposed to going there for answers on this. Mormonism is just silent on the issues, but again, I have a feeling most people in a position to give advice would dismiss and oppose the idea.

no, its useless.

God will not forgive you more because of it.

What you need to be forgiven?

ask for it. thats it.

>>2997

That's not the object of mortification, son.

It's not to seek forgiveness, it's self-discipline.

>>2999

in what way is hurting the temple of God a way of self discipline, my brother?

>>2968

It seems satanic to me.

>>3015

How so?

>>3003

It's not hurting so much as cleaning.

Whether it's fasting, self-flagellation, or what have you, it's a way to remind ourselves that the flesh is nothing compared to the spirit.

However, if you're trying to do something that greviously wounds your body, then it becomes bad (i.e., eating nothing at all, whipping until bleeding, etc).

That's why a spiritual advisor is so important, to help you with what would be best.

I think it's an abuse of your senses and comparable to any other abuse of them.

I don't think it's a sin per se but I am pretty sure those who practice this oddity place far too much pride in it.

The very idea that you somehow partake in Christ's suffering is arrogant and I couldn't mortify myself with this idea in mind. Suffering the cross you were given is very different from adding, artificially, to it, by inflicting your own chosen type of pain.

People who practice mortification tend to have a psychological problem and have more in common with people who practice self-harm for nonreligious reasons than with regular religious people.

But mostly, Christ never inflicted pain on Himself. And He would never have done it with a very pragmatic consequence to it, of which there is none for mortifiers.

I see it as arrogance towards God and a scorning of the body, which God gave us.

Christ fasted, but fasting has been shown, scientifically, to be a healthy practice. Attacking your skin does nothing, and I very much doubt the spiritual benefits of such a practice.

Then again, if you're a self-harmer coating your habit with the air of religiosity, I can see how that's a benefit to you.

>>3029

>Whether it's fasting, self-flagellation, or what have you, it's a way to remind ourselves that the flesh is nothing compared to the spirit.

If it's nothing, why spend so much energy and time on it? Why attack the weak?

Just go workout or something. That's healthy pain.

>>3322

>But mostly, Christ never inflicted pain on Himself. And He would never have done it with a very pragmatic consequence to it, of which there is none for mortifiers.

He let the crucifixion happen.

>Christ fasted, but fasting has been shown, scientifically, to be a healthy practice.

>40 days fasting without any food

>healthy

As if the merit of fasting was to be healthy, I mean seriously. Fasting can be healthy if you otherwise ate too much which is for the vast majority of our time not the case. Americans being a disgraceful exception like always.

>>3324

>Just go workout or something. That's healthy pain.

It's not about health. Neither flagellation nor fasting do concern themselve with health but with sacrifice and suffering.

>>3326

>It's not about health. Neither flagellation nor fasting do concern themselve with health but with sacrifice and suffering.

How would you recommend a person (lets call him… me) practice self-flagellation in order to get the best possible experience? What should I expect if I do it right? Is it a heightened sense of spirituality or maybe a firmer grip on the ability to resist temptation?

>>3387

I have never done it but I know that it is mandatory to have a priest supervising.

Not supervising the actual flagellation but to be informed before and talked about with him. Due to people that would do it…wrong.

>What should I expect if I do it right?

Pain.

> Is it a heightened sense of spirituality or maybe a firmer grip on the ability to resist temptation?

I'd rather if either someone whohas done it, or better someone who is learned would answer you that.

>>3402

>have never done it but I know that it is mandatory to have a priest supervising.

Yeah, that might be a problem.

Anyways, thank you for your advice. I'll investigate the issue further and see what I can come up with.

>skateboarding and falling onto OP's pic related

brutal

>>3448

>Yeah, that might be a problem.

Why? You can just go to a priest and ask him. He will either to talk you yourself or send you somewhere. Regardless of you being a non-catholic or not.

>>3474

>How would you suggest I approach the subject though?

Just tell him the truth.

>Excuse me Pater, could you spare a moment?

>I am a baptised Catholic. But I have fallen to the mormon freemasonic sect and want to repent. I am interested in flagellation because of that. Could you help me with the topic, I'm just a layman.

If you insist on it he will help you, even if he might at first try to get you of the idea.

>>3481

That sounds pretty reasonable actually, thank you.

>>2968

>In your personal opinion, does self-mortification, flagellation and otherwise causing moderate to noticeable harm to one's body have any redeeming spiritual qualities?

No. It's ridiculous. Jesus paid the ultimate price, and now it's time to move forward in prayer and love, not whipping the shit out of ourselves.

>>3495

>do not repent

>do not try to understand

>faith alone suffices

Yeah, no.

>>3015

'murrican detected

>>3495

His blood is never enough. We still need to do good deeds to be sure.

Anyone got any experience with cilices*? I just ordered one yesterday and I'm just wondering if there's any practical advise anyone could offer. The internet is surprisingly quiet about this whole thing.

*Don't know if that's the proper plural.

>>5626

Thanks, this is all very nice. I'll read these articles.

Are you fasting?

All Mormons who aren't stricken with disease or something fast once a month, the day leading up to the first Sunday of the month.

>Anyway, you should still talk with a priest about this, there were reasons why the flaggellants were fought by the Church

I considered this, but after I came to the conclusion that I have no interest in leaving the Church, I feel like I would have a hard time finding a priest irresponsible enough to "mentor" me through this while knowing fully well I'm not going to go back to Catholicism.

>I do not think that Mormons practice this btw. What would they say if they knew?

I've though about this a lot recently. The terms "mortification of the flesh" do appear in the more recent Scriptures, though not that much. Like I said, the only common form of mortification is fasting. I've searched a lot, but I can't even find comments of anyone in the church on the subject one way or the other.

I thought about bringing it up to others I trust, but then I thought I might have just been doing it out of spiritual pride and trying to further my "traditionalist" image. I thought of speaking with the Bishop, but I'm certain he's never dealt with something like that before. It would turn into me trying to convince him that its the same principle as fasting, leaving him uncomfortable with the idea but with no doctrinal evidence to say its wrong.

I aim to just try it out and see what the results are, although it might be difficult to predict where this path will lead me.

>>5630

>Are you fasting?

On fridays and easter.

>I considered this, but after I came to the conclusion that I have no interest in leaving the Church, I feel like I would have a hard time finding a priest irresponsible enough to "mentor" me through this while knowing fully well I'm not going to go back to Catholicism.

I assure you that every responsible Catholic priest will help a non-believer if asked to do so politely.

As would most Catholics in general, Caritas is still the best way to converting others after all.

>I aim to just try it out and see what the results are, although it might be difficult to predict where this path will lead me.

Except for your adherence to sspecific Mormon doctrines, like apotheosis for example, you do not seem very Mormon to me.

So far I get the idea that you are a Mormon for worldly reasons and because some of their doctrines are to your personal liking.

I could be wrong of course.

>>5633

>I assure you that every responsible Catholic priest will help a non-believer if asked to do so politely.

Well, I'll keep this in mind. I do have a Catholic church a stone's throw away from my home, so the worst thing that can happen is I get told no and have to walk 10 minutes back home.

> you do not seem very Mormon to me.

In order to better understand what you mean and give you a better answer, I have to ask you what, to you, would be a regular Mormon. I don't imagine there's too many in Austria.

So how did this work out m8?

>>7604

I don't know, it helped for like a month and I did feel closer to God when I used it for prayer and to stave off sin, but eventually that couldn't stave off all the other doubts and issues I have with spirituality in general so now it just sits there most of the time unless I feel like putting it on just to enjoy the pain without any sort of religious connotation.

>>7616

>I don't know, it helped for like a month

What did you do exactly?

> unless I feel like putting it on just to enjoy the pain without any sort of religious connotation.

>enjoy the pain

uhh… if you enjoy pain it is wrong anyway. Pain has no intrinsic value, it is about the fact of disliking it and doing it anyway.

Not sure if you are really masochist or if you use pain as a way of relief. This would be a very common thing though, many do these. Especially those that feel diconnected from their environment and eventually their own body. I have had it described as the last resort to feel yourself when you feel like an alien person in your own body.

but usually it is edgy teens and borderlines that do this, not saying that you are one of the two or that any of the stuff I said was true about you, I don't know as I've said.

>>7626

I would wear it for about an hour or two every day, wrapped around my leg while I prayed and read scripture. Sometimes I'd just pace around and meditate. It did help me concentrate and stuff, and it felt good to feel something while doing these things, as that is the promise of the religion; that you'll know these things spiritually and be able to "feel" that they are true.

I would agree that I enjoyed it, although initially I thought that this was somehow God being pleased with me or that I enjoyed the "sacrifice" of enduring that pain while doing these things, but I think I just enjoyed the sensory experience. I couldn't say for certain why I like it, I just do, although I don't seek attention for it. Nobody outside of you kind, nameless internet fellas knows I've done that, and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

its demonic and its unbiblical and its based on a faulty translation