/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>3752

>God is all things but has specifically given us Free Will in which we can distance ourselves from His Love and Justice

More like this allows you to start from nothing and go to Him.

>This causes death.

Existing here causes death, if you want.

>Justice and Love are the same by God.

I don't think so. It wasn't justice when God became one of us and suffered for our sins. It was love, but was not "just"; it was 100% love.

>Love can mean the destruction and killing of certain things because like Light cannot coexist with darkness neither can being and nonbeing.

It is a just thing to kill a man whose purpose in life has become torture and murder.

So you believe that there is no Hell but that souls merely perish? Interesting and nicely worded.

>it is a loving thing

Spine-chilling. But I get your point though.

>>3759

Forgot my trip

>When Jesus says "render unto caesar" I have no idea why people misquote that set of versus.

Separation of church and state, and "My kingdom is not of this world", basically.

> This again tells you ALL governments are evil and if you read all of Jesus' teachings he isn't saying go be a good tithe payer he is saying that all of that will not make you a good man.

Not necessarily, the devil is a liar, so even that offer may not be truthful, besides, it's pretty dumb of the devil since Christ is God and already owns everything. Dumb devil is dumb.

>>3759

>>Justice and Love are the same by God.

>I don't think so. It wasn't justice when God became one of us and suffered for our sins. It was love, but was not "just"; it was 100% love.

It was justice because it was love. He loved us so dearly that he paid the cost of destroying that sin by his own suffering. Some try to make this sound ridiculous like "why not just forgive everything" but that would not be just. He showed us not only the right way to undo sinful ways but also how much it hurts to become sin. Christ could not be killed by whips or spears, he died when he took all our sin into himself and literally became separate from God. Yes separate from himself. It is like adding 1 and -1 and it created pain and death. God may be eternal and thus resurrected but that does not mean the sacrifice was meaingless.

He has felt our pain. He knows that we are powerless to our vices and we die by them. Through him we conquer all.

>>Love can mean the destruction and killing of certain things because like Light cannot coexist with darkness neither can being and nonbeing.

>It is a just thing to kill a man whose purpose in life has become torture and murder.

>So you believe that there is no Hell but that souls merely perish? Interesting and nicely worded.

Translations confuse the language by using "everlasting" which modern readers translate to "forever lasting" the fire that consumes you is all consuming. There is not even ash left. So that is mercy both for sinner and atheist. Nothing will be left to suffer or feel pain. A set of choices and habits, but all can be forgiven by the choice to genuinely live the way christ lived and the greatest is the servant among equals.

>>it is a loving thing

>Spine-chilling. But I get your point though.

>>3760

He has the power to offer these things because they are impermanent. You can have all these things will be nothing but dust in the end. Or you can choose to be saved by helping everyone.

>>3766

>It was justice because it was love.

I maintain that someone paying for someone else's mistake isn't just. Because it just isn't. But it is love, and that's what matters the most here, or so I thought.

I doubt you'd literally tell God that it was only fair that He had to suffer for us while being innocent Himself, hence it wasn't "just".

>>3769

>I maintain that someone paying for someone else's mistake isn't just.

Ah but that's the point. It isn't someone paying for anyone's mistake. As I've written in the post it is to show solidarity. It is a forgiveness but not a light one. It can't just be cast aside. God shows us that He can hurt. He knows pain.

>Because it just isn't. But it is love, and that's what matters the most here, or so I thought.

Love is Justice and Justice is love. Humans that sin have corrupted justice to be "punishment" and thus it sounds ridiculous without facing the true meanings.

>I doubt you'd literally tell God that it was only fair that He had to suffer for us while being innocent Himself, hence it wasn't "just".

He did not have to. You hit a great note here my friend. He did not have to. We are in His image and he chose to. His ultimate Love was that he did not want to punish us who are swayed by this lust and that one and other men that mislead us. However there were acts that were inexcusable?

He could say "It is finished" and wave his hand. Instead:

He came to show us what has been lost. In many ways and he told parables to give more knowledge than just example.

He took the sin upon him to show us not that "a payment" had to be made but that sin destroys. Total Sin is total death. A little sin is a little distance from Him. All the sins that had been and that ever will be, this can not be ignored, is complete death. So do not misunderstand it as a payment but as a show to what sin is. It is not a blemish but complete destruction.

I shared this thread to this little board now I go because Christ is not a building or a law but Christ is life.

>>3752

>Some bibles that annotate even put little headings down and interpret that story as "Jesus said obey government"

He…did.

>The story of Jesus being tempted by the devil at the top of the world that he could get ALL the worlds governments if he only bows to the devil - that isnt the devil being a liar. He could do that. This again tells you ALL governments are evil and if you read all of Jesus' teachings he isn't saying go be a good tithe payer he is saying that all of that will not make you a good man.

Did the devil talk about the governments? I believe he just said you can have the whole world.

Anyway, we know that governments gonna be the enemy and allied to the devil in the end from revelation.

>He says it because paying taxes and being involved in working for earthly things will only bring more of the worlds worst atrocities.

It was real in your mind. Christian work ethics require you to earn your living and to donate.

Even monks have to work.

>>3760

>Separation of church and state, and "My kingdom is not of this world", basically.

Jesus did not support the seperation of Church and state. He is the high priest king.

Stop instrumentalising him.

>>3791

>Jesus did not support the seperation of Church and state. He is the high priest king.

>Stop instrumentalising him.

First off, "separation of church and state" was first an American thing, and it was done to protect the church from the government, not to attack the government with the church, as many people seem to think today. American was the result of religious people fleeing persecution, that's what the Founders had in mind: they wanted to secure religious freedom and security in the constitution. That's what separation of church and state means. Plenty of people use this verse to suggest Christ also made a separation between politics and religion.

I also separate politics and religion because I believe you can be Christian and have completely opposite political beliefs. Politics is not whether you want to do good or not, it's about how you intend to make that good happen, and that's where people vary.

As to instrumentalising Christ, I'm not, but I assume you think "separation of church and state" is a thing Christianity-haters mention to say the state should care less about religion, which is not what it's about to begin with.

His kingdom is not of this world, He says that too. It doesn't mean Christians mustn't get involved in politics, and that's not what I'm suggesting either. It just means that this world is not our home.