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File: 1436454203384.jpg (23.18 KB, 500x333, 500:333, Certainty.jpg)

 No.3905

1/2

Dear All,

I have noticed that one major difference between myself and most of the people here is that you guys are far more certain of things than I am. This is not a surprise to anyone, naturally. But let's consider this for a moment.

My uncertain position, while not comfortable in the least since I have countless issues that have no answers, allows me to listen to everyone without feeling the urge to call anybody a heretic. I can actually listen, and disagree, or agree, but I don't feel like the very faith is at stake depending on my answer; I assume some of you feel this way, and that failing to answer categorically is akin to failing the faith itself. It's a sin to some of you not to immediately point out the heresy and speak against it.

How can you be so sure? I mean, I understand that it's faith, but I have the impression that it is more than that to many of you. I think it would be important to reconsider your positions on certainty, just so that we can all converse as friends without our differences being in the way. We don't want to become another /christian/, do we? So we'll have to get along and accept our differences.

It is possible to do so and it is made easier if you apply a bit more skepticism to your own position (which I understand is also a sort of sin to some of you). Fighting with your brother is no less of a sin, though, so if one thing can help the other, don't hesitate.

This also means that we should try to explore topics that aren't necessarily Christian topics, but which we can discuss as Christians; this way, we don't have to argue over theology and doctrine and dogmas.

When /christian/ was new and we were few, we all felt a warm kindred because it was the first time for most of us that we were united as Christians, after years of being lone wolves on the chans, getting tipped on a daily basis. This lasted quite some time, and then, as popularity arose and certainty set in, as we got used to the idea that we were now the majority, we started forgetting about the world out there and we became bitching monks, arguing about the monastery, forgetting about the world.

I still miss the way things were in the beginning and I hope we can have that here, but it implies focusing on what makes us alike and what makes us different from others, not what makes us different from each other. We should all make a conscious effort of doing this, because if we don't, we'll end up arguing over doctrine more often than not, and in the end we won't even want to come back. And don't think I'm patronising, I'm probably the first to argue forever over doctrine and tackle every single point I find. I do this because I am uncertain and I want to know, and I want to attack points to see if they can be defended, and I want to save my little faith. I realise that. The only thing I have going for me in this behaviour is that I am unsure, so I'm unlikely to call someone a heretic with any authority. Bottom line, I don't know.

We are more varied today than we were 2 months ago, and along with this diversity, we must ensure that everyone feels welcome. We now have atheists, Mormons, agnostics, and who knows what else, and I think we all want them to feel welcome here. If you'd rather a more segregated board, there's always /christian/, and I don't say that as sarcasm. This board was created so we could all freely speak about everything. So far, it has been so; it is a true haven for free speech and all of us have behaved accordingly: not temptation to test the authority, nobody's treated like a child, so nobody behaves like one.

That's about all I wanted to say. Some of us aren't so sure, and we should strive to take that into account to ensure we can still enjoy interesting conversations without losing the brotherhood we're trying to create here. I had to say it because I'm too red-blooded much of the time and I feel I am very often near the limit of brotherhood with regards to others on this board.

(cont.)

 No.3906

2/2

I understand that a subject such as faith means a lot of passion, if your faith matters to you, so it is even more difficult, I suppose, for us to remain cool-headed at all time. Let us try to accept our differences, even if we don't believe in them.

Nobody here is forced to believe in what others believe and nobody ought to feel this way, either. That must be clearly stated. I forget whether the sticky mentions the Nicene Creed or not, but regardless, LDS people should feel welcome here as well; same with atheists/agnostics. Everyone who participates here is in connection with the Church (the One True Invisible Church of Christ whose members are only known to God), so even atheists and agnostics should feel welcome and part of our little brotherhood.

We are Christians of the 21st century, we should behave as such, and not imitate behaviours that matched parameters we don't live under; we don't have to segregate, we don't even live together. We can tolerate much more, our religion isn't in danger right now, we are very numerous, we are established in myriad ways.

Let's use this thread to say what we like and dislike about this board as a brotherhood (I'm assuming there are no females because I have never met one, but I'll use another word if the situation changes).

I hope we can do this as friends. Let's be at peace!


 No.3927

As of yet I don't think we've experienced any meaningful disharmony here; people being convinced of their beliefs and calling out others as heretics isn't really an issue as long as it doesn't hinder discussion.

We all accept each other here, even if we don't agree. In this type of things, people who flat out don't accept others will simply refuse to post in the same board that allows those they disagree with, that doesn't happen here.

I think we'll be alright, though I appreciate your concern for this board.


 No.4087

>>3905

> this way, we don't have to argue over theology and doctrine and dogmas.

I'd like to do that actually. But except for the Mormons no one here can get their theology straight it seems to me.

>>3906

>Let us try to accept our differences, even if we don't believe in them.

>We are Christians of the 21st century

>>>/r/christianity/

>Let's use this thread to say what we like and dislike about this board as a brotherhood

I like the idea of the board and many of our threads in general.

I dislike us being so slow and so few people. I'd also like to have some other Christians here. I mean Christians that really belong to a Church, we have too many non-dem, agnostics, atheists, mormons etc in general here, relatively speaking.

We'll be fine, I guess.


 No.4089

>>3927

>people being convinced of their beliefs and calling out others as heretics isn't really an issue as long as it doesn't hinder discussion.

True, but I wouldn't recommend taking this direction, as it ends up with /christian/ sooner than you know, especially if we grow in numbers (and we have grown in numbers already).

Considering every Christian is another Christian's heretic, I suggest we just drop the word altogether. We know we're different, that's why we have flags.

>We all accept each other here, even if we don't agree.

We take this for granted now, but it was the same on /christian/ originally. Don't take it for granted because it won't last forever if we don't actively work on it.

>I think we'll be alright, though I appreciate your concern for this board.

Thanks.


 No.4091

>>4087

>I'd like to do that actually.

I meant arguing in the bad way, like bickering. I'm of course for critical conversations over such subjects.

My bad.

> But except for the Mormons no one here can get their theology straight it seems to me.

Who else is trying? I consider myself still in learning process so my shit isn't as tight as yours or the Mormons'. I'm still working on it and I can't guarantee when I'll be ready, if ever. That's what happens when you don't choose a Church to lead you.

>I dislike us being so slow and so few people.

I've been proselytising recently, we should get a few more people if we haven't already. I'm just off some 5-hour long thread on another website… I'm spent.

> I mean Christians that really belong to a Church, we have too many non-dem, agnostics, atheists, mormons etc in general here, relatively speaking.

I understand. I'm unbanned from /christian/ in less than an hour, I'll try exposing us there, maybe.

Open a thread on /b/ to advertise for lesser known boards and advertise ours at some point. This works too and isn't too invasive.


 No.4092

>>4091

>Who else is trying?

Indeed. I'd like if people would just try much more to start topics or open threads that interest them. Many seem too shy to engage much.

>>4091

>I understand. I'm unbanned from /christian/ in less than an hour, I'll try exposing us there, maybe.

>Open a thread on /b/ to advertise for lesser known boards and advertise ours at some point. This works too and isn't too invasive.

I'd rather not.

>>4089

> I suggest we just drop the word altogether.

You can drop the word, but this doesn't change reality.


 No.4094

>>4092

>You can drop the word, but this doesn't change reality.

I know, but your realities are interchangeable. My point is that reality is not the same to you and the Mormons. You both think I'm a heretic, and you both thing you're heretics too. At this point it becomes redundant. We all understand that having a very clear idea about matters of faith leads to having people on the right path and heretics.

It's just that when you all do it, I find myself the only one who can't call anybody a heretic.

Keep in mind that in the Mormons' reality, you're the heretic just like I am. And in yours, I'm a heretic with them.

It depends on whose reality we believe.


 No.4098

>>4094

>I know, but your realities are interchangeable. My point is that reality is not the same to you and the Mormons.

There is one reality for all of us. There is just one truth. That's why just one denomination can be right and all others wrong.

respectively other non-christian religion like mormonism

> And in yours, I'm a heretic with them.

Did I call you a heretic once? I remember pointing it out if you promote such ideas, and once I said you're about to cross the line to blasphemy, but that's it iirc.


 No.4100

>>4098

>There is one reality for all of us. There is just one truth.

Yes, but each of you has his own version and each of you thinks his own version is the one.

I'm sure you understand this. The point is: I don't know which of you is right. I can't pretend to know, I can't just assume one of you is right just because.

>Did I call you a heretic once?

I don't remember, but I certainly fit the definition of one in your mind. It's OK though.


 No.4102

>>4098

Honest question from me to you: how do you do to be so sure of the Church?


 No.4106

>>4102

>Honest question from me to you: how do you do to be so sure of the Church?

Matthew 16,18

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

He promised it. I want to trust him.


 No.4111

>>4106

That promise doesn't mean that He won't build His Church on others as well, right?

Still, it doesn't mean that other humans in the Church built on Peter can't be wrong. Building the Church is one thing, but being right about dogma is another, and I wouldn't easily trust Peter on such (denying Christ despite knowing Christ personally comes to mind).

I mean, even Protestants believe this, they just assume things went wrong at some point after that.

Is this promise incompatible with the shortcomings of men? I guess that's my question.


 No.4114

>>4111

>That promise doesn't mean that He won't build His Church on others as well, right?

If there is anyone who preaches a gospel to you different than this.. or something.

>Is this promise incompatible with the shortcomings of men? I guess that's my question.

I never claimed that there are no shortcomings inside the Church of individual Church members.

The Church itself is, however, the bride and body of Christ and can as a whole therefore not fall.

> they just assume things went wrong at some point after that.

If you have a wife you don't leave here when things go wrong. You stay with her and try to change things.


 No.4117

>>4114

>If there is anyone who preaches a gospel to you different than this.. or something.

Thing is, does anyone really preach anything different? Protestants just might with the sola fide stuff, although even that is arguable (not with some, the "once saved always saved" sort aren't even trying).

>The Church itself is, however, the bride and body of Christ and can as a whole therefore not fall.

If the pedo stuff isn't falling, nothing will ever be.

>If you have a wife you don't leave here when things go wrong. You stay with her and try to change things.

One could argue Protestants expected all Catholics to join them (or maybe you couldn't, not sure).

I agree with you that I wish it had happened inside the Church. It happened later though, if I'm not mistaken, and we could have spared ourselves one schism.


 No.4123

File: 1436657165890.png (236.39 KB, 800x640, 5:4, Desu_Ex.png)

>>4087

> I mean Christians that really belong to a Church, we have too many non-dem, agnostics, atheists, mormons etc in general here, relatively speaking.

You're essentially the only person in this board in any position to "poach" Catholics or the like from other boards. I couldn't do it without being dishonest, that's for sure.

I think we'll get more of your type from /christian/ as the moderation tightens, and anyone interested in anything other than "desu vult" will find someplace else.


 No.4124

File: 1436663489453.jpg (166.89 KB, 960x1280, 3:4, tumblr_nqgk3iy1HI1ruseqao1….jpg)

>>4087

We will m9




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