/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>4408

> Second Vatican II?

That is to say, the Second Vatican Council.

Vatican 2 taught heresies like that moslems worship God. Muslims reject Jesus who is God, therefore they worship a false monotheistic god, and not God. The consequence of Vatican 2 heresies is that those who believe them are not Catholic. Therefore, a lot who claim to be "Catholic" are at least in what is called material heresy. Even material heretics cannot be elected as pope, so from John 23rd to Francis, none of those people can be pope.

Basically for the 20th century, non-Catholics became clergy and prepared for a rebellion which they staged at Vatican 2 which created a counterfeit of Catholicism. Counterfeits look like the real thing but they're not, and so that is what Vatican 2 "Catholicism" is today. Look up the Permanent Instructions of Alta Vendita and AA1025 on some of how this process panned out. The basic movement was the heresy of modernism, which Pope St. Pius X called "the synthesis of all heresies". It is the basic idea that dogmas evolve, so what was true in the past is no longer true. But dogmas are eternal truths which do not change.

So basically right now I follow a conclavist pope and I think the dust is settling on restoring the papacy apart from the false Vatican 2 religion.

I get mixed signals about V2. To some, it's merely the surface updating of the Church, with no changes to dogma and doctrine, while to others, it's the ultimate conspiracy theory in which Jewish-owned Jesuists take over the Vatican and instill Satan's seed into God's children.

I'm not quite convinced that V2 is that evil, although I'm open to conspiracy theories. The Mary stuff taking place around it is very interesting though, but it remains to be seen whether it was Mary at all, or the devil, and if the devil is acting the Church, one may believe the Church is doing well.

>>4412

>Vatican 2 taught heresies like that moslems worship God

That's not up to Vatican to choose. Muslims obviously believe they worship God. Whether they are wrong or not changes nothing to what they believe they are doing.

>what is called material heresy.

Too much Father YouTube, right? Depending on who decides what a "material heresy" is, it doesn't matter. It's always the same issue here: who is legitimate in deciding what the rules are?

The Pope is the Pope because he is the Pope, there's no question of "really" being the Pope, just like the president. You're president if you're elected, not because you're a true patriot or something. The Pope is elected by the cardinals, and that's why he's Pope.

>It is the basic idea that dogmas evolve

If a false dogma does not get corrected, the whole religion breaks down. I refuse to let my faith die simply because some arrogant human decided that something was a dogma because he didn't know any better (pluralise this at all, it makes no difference to me).

There are quite a few Catholic dogmas (still in place) that would require cancelling, because it's most likely untrue and no Christian should be held to believe in things we know not to be true. Faith is at stake there.

Of all 255 dogmas, I doubt you believe in every single one of them.

Any other specifics on what makes V2 heretical?

>>4426

Not sure if you're trying to defend Vatican 2's false teaching here. Nostra Aetate states that Muslims profess to worship God. Some argued that they profess to worship God, but that they actually do not, therefore the document is not heretical. Well, Paul VI stated that they worship God, so there is a contradiction of that claim. Google heresies of Vatican 2 for more. This is the simplest one to bring up. Others include religious liberty, collegiality, heretical definition of the Church ("subsists in" language), etc.

Material heretics hold to a heresy without knowing it. If they are in good faith, they lack guilt. Thus, if Vatican 2 is heretical, and many hold to Vatican 2 false teachings as Catholic truth, then they would be in at least material heresy.

Popes must be papabile Catholic males in order to be elected pope. Those Vatican 2 claimants from John 23rd - Francis were heretics prior to being elected and could not be elected pope.

"There are quite a few Catholic dogmas (still in place) that would require cancelling" I'm not sure how to respond to this portion if you could clarify what you mean.

"Of all 255 dogmas, I doubt you believe in every single one of them." I would ask for refraining from personal attack, as this borders on calumny: "[Calumny] its more commonly accepted signification it means the unjust damaging of the good name of another by imputing to him a crime or fault of which he is not guilty."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03190c.htm

The various trads are extremely unprofessional in this way and I'd ask you avoid their ranks. Though you definitely make a good point here to pray for an increase of faith, because heresy is not only the denial of a truth of the faith but can be the doubt of a truth as well.

Hope this is helpful One of Little Faith. With faith the size of a mustard seed, one can move mountains of confusion away during these dark times…