/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>5238

I do not really have to add anything to our conversation from yesterday.

>God is just and fair.

Yes

>God is just according to justice, God isn't just because He is God, but because He actually acts in just ways.

Justice is dependant on God not the other way round, the only idea of justice we can have is the idea we get from being similar to him.

>can do illogical things and evil things while forcing them to be good just because it's Him.

He wouldn't, he's good.

>Wouldn't you have to do something forever to deserve forever? What kind of human crime – suppose we were immortal – would get you eternity in a court of law?

Is human crime really finite? If God created us in infinite love, and we commited treason and betrayed him, and he himself send his son and tried to save us and take all the sin of us in infinite love again, and now we reject him, is this really a finite offense?

What does eternal even mean? Is time real? Does time apply to God? If time is a necessary illusion for the human mind and in fact did not exist, how could there be a temporary punishment.

If our soul is the breath of God and similar to him, and you harm it, is this finite?

And every sin harms it. If we are to assume that the soul is infinite, then everything that attacks it or harms it or taints it is an act of infinite cruelty and a crime beyond human imagination.

I just do not think that I can give you the answers that you so direly seek for. I am not sure if any man can but I wish I could hug you

>>5240

>Is human crime really finite? If God created us in infinite love, and we commited treason and betrayed him, and he himself send his son and tried to save us and take all the sin of us in infinite love again, and now we reject him, is this really a finite offense?

Not bad. Rejecting infinite love as infinite crime, or at the very least, infinite rejection. I can work with that.

>What does eternal even mean? Is time real? Does time apply to God? If time is a necessary illusion for the human mind and in fact did not exist, how could there be a temporary punishment.

That's good too, it'd also do away with hell as "eternal" so to speak, if time doesn't exist, though I can't say I got a clue as to what that means for us humans.

>If our soul is the breath of God and similar to him, and you harm it, is this finite?

Hurting God echoes to infinity? I can work with that as well.

>And every sin harms it. If we are to assume that the soul is infinite, then everything that attacks it or harms it or taints it is an act of infinite cruelty and a crime beyond human imagination.

I don't know about infinite cruelty because this requires intent and not all sins are intentional (see the three types of sins in Judaism). But I understand.

>I do not really have to add anything to our conversation from yesterday.

I don't remember, you may be mistaking me for someone else. I do lurk a lot and I did come across this subject somewhere, but I don't remember if it was here or on /christian/.

> I am not sure if any man can but I wish I could hug you

That's very kind of you but I am pretty sure you're thinking of someone else lol. I'll pass on the hug if I see them.

That said, your answers have been interesting beyond my expectations. I came across ideas like these before but was not too convinced. I was thinking of in terms of sins against other humans, which are finite, but I didn't think about their ramifications and sins against God, which all sins against humans are too, in a secondary manner, since they generally are a lack of love. That makes perfect sense to me.

Thank you for those answers!

>>5246

Then you must be that desu person, who's also from Austria.

But yeah, that was me. I didn't know you were that person too.

>>5246

And obviously you know who I am now.

>God is just according to justice, God isn't just because He is God, but because He actually acts in just ways.

No, God IS justice. God IS mercy. God IS love, He is not just full of them. By forgiving sins we are presupposing Gods forgiveness and act as God would. By giving without asking for something in return, we are giving like God would. Mercy itself is extremely unjust, and some would think it arbitrary.

Theosis, something that can also be undertaken by doing what God wills us to do don’t believe protestant lies, is the goal of being a christian faithful. Sainthood means the restoration of man in the image of God, just like our Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary who we call 'Nova Eva', as she is immaculate, just like Eve before the fall.

And this is also why there cannot ever be justice in the world. Only God is just enough.

>can do illogical things and evil things while forcing them to be good just because it's Him.

Now this is what a muslim would think of the entity they know as allah but the actual Allah, i.e. what we understand as God isn’t full of deceit.

>Now, my question is this: if God is just, how can a finite crime can be punished by an infinite sanction?

It is not finite if you do not regret it. When the secular world ends for you, all things that were 'present' for you, cannot become past. Present tense, in English, denotes that something is regularly and always the case.

Just like Christ is the lamb that IS given for our sins. Cf. http://www.erzabtei-beuron.de/schott/register/osterzeit/schott_anz/index.html?file=gemeinsame_texte/Praefationen/Osterzeit.htm

(Or for those who aren’t Germans: http://www.liturgies.net/Liturgies/Catholic/roman_missal/prefaces.htm#easter1)

>What kind of human crime – suppose we were immortal – would get you eternity in a court of law?

Either sin you don’t regret. Blessed are those who accept that they are poor before God.

>Wouldn't you have to do something forever to deserve forever

You cannot do anything forever because you are mortal. And it seems kind of unfair to me, if it only worked that way. That our faults we haven’t overcome before our death would be unforgiveable. Human nature is not always push coming to shove and we don’t always act on our faults in a lack of temptation.

There is purgatory for that.

I changed my flag for unity sake. It’s funny that the catholics on here are all German-speaking

>>5258

>It is not finite if you do not regret it.

So the real crime here is attitude rather than action. The only real sin is being against God as an attitude, if I understand this correctly. All physical acts are finite, but one's attitude lasts as long as we exist, which is eternally. Right?

>Either sin you don’t regret.

You mean "any" sin? If anyone knows enough about God, they'll regret everything that's a sin before God, obviously. Not doing so is out of ignorance rather than apostasy, I'd say.

>Purgatory

In case of venial sins like "excessive laughter". Thanks… For everything else, Hell directly. Even if you've been a good Catholic your whole life, if you die on Monday and forgot to go to mass the day before, Hell without second chance (according to the catechism), whereas if you don't forget, and die the same way, Heaven! I can't believe something so simplistically mechanic. I don't know how you Catholics do, but I'd love to know.

Suppose I laugh excessively on Monday, and die on Wednesday, I go to Purgatory for it. But if I die on Sunday after mass, I've been cleansed of my venial sin through the Eucharist, and I go straight to Heaven. I never knew jokes were this dangerous.

>>5356

>So the real crime here is attitude rather than action.

Actions are caused by attitudes.

>You mean "any" sin? If anyone knows enough about God, they'll regret everything that's a sin before God, obviously. Not doing so is out of ignorance rather than apostasy, I'd say.

Lucifer knows God perfectly well, he faced him. Still he revolted.

> if you die on Monday and forgot to go to mass the day before, Hell without second chance (according to the catechism),

Passage?

>excessive laughter

Where is this defined as a sin? Why? There's sure some context to it.

>>5238

When you trespass against the state authority, you get state time. When you trespass against the federal authority, you get federal time.When you trespass against the Infinite Authority, you get infinite time.