/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>5255

>if one day you miss mass, and then die in a car accident, you're condemned to hell forever

Actually, if you have a habit of going to confession regularly and you TRULY mean it God will know that.

You could be killed on the way to confession. Wouldn’t that mean that God didn’t protect you until you got there? Think about it, clearly he cannot send you to hell for that.

Besides, to quote the catechism:

>1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":619

I don’t think sins we commit that classify as mortal sins like rubbing one out :^) are apostasy in nature.

>Most Catholics I know don't confess before mass each week, and not doing so already sets you down the mortal sin path

I beg your pardon? The Eucharist takes away venial sins. The penitential rite during sunday mass takes away venial sins. Even using Holy Water in church to bless yourself does it, as it is a reminder of baptism. Confession is only needed once a year and if you are in mortal sin.

> How can a Catholic be damned for bad luck in the case of dying in a state of mortal sin? Isn't that arbitrary in ways that God generally doesn't have?

It could be argued that they end up in purgatory. Or it could be argued that the Catechism was available for them to read all the time. In a time where information is a mouse click away, do you think the lazy can be called innocent?

>>5259

What is the basis of this idea that you have to die without sins? This seems rather original to me.

>>5259

>I beg your pardon? The Eucharist takes away venial sins. The penitential rite during sunday mass takes away venial sins. Even using Holy Water in church to bless yourself does it, as it is a reminder of baptism. Confession is only needed once a year and if you are in mortal sin.

I heard different. I was told, or read, that you must not take the Eucharist unless you have been cleansed by confession. This implies confession before you "commune".

Only once a year? Are you sure?

>>5261

>This seems rather original to me

As I said, the Eucharist takes away venial sins.

But we don’t have to be saints for that, there is purgatory to cleanse us before we go to heaven.

>>5262

>unless you have been cleansed by confession

[…] if in mortal sin. Yes. If you don’t fap, don’t fornicate, don’t murder :^)

If we weren’t such awfully degenerated basement dwellers, it wouldn’t be too hard.

Either way, the Vatican suggests going to confession once a month.

>>5263

>If you don’t fap, don’t fornicate, don’t murder

Do, do, don't. Would I require confession every single week, then?

>>5265

I guess you would have to stop doing these things altogether.

Or at least try. Confession is only useful if you feel contrite. A confession in vain is ineffective and while you don't commit a sacrilege, you wont receive any grace.

>>5266

If I can't believe something is a sin, I logically can't feel contrite about it either.

That said, sex is marriage to me (long-term relationship, monogamous). For all intents and purposes, I'm married, just not on paper yet (administrative stuff takes time in this case).

As to confession, I have now confessed to my fellow Christian brothers, so I'm good ya?

>>5274

How could you be married if no priest has performed the ceremony, no person with the proper authority has sealed you in the eyes of God?

Are you a Protestant?

>>5275

Actually, the sacrament of marriage is ministered by the spouses under free will.

>>5305

How so? and if this is the case, why do Catholics and other churches have priests to conduct these ceremonies?

>>5313

Witnesses, blessings, etc.

>>5314

Which are required for the marriage to be valid, no? You can't posibbly just take a womam, have sex with her and call it a day.

>>5315

1631 This is the reason why the Church normally requires that the faithful contract marriage according to the ecclesiastical form. Several reasons converge to explain this requirement:134

- Sacramental marriage is a liturgical act. It is therefore appropriate that it should be celebrated in the public liturgy of the Church;

- Marriage introduces one into an ecclesial order, and creates rights and duties in the Church between the spouses and towards their children;

- Since marriage is a state of life in the Church, certainty about it is necessary (hence the obligation to have witnesses);

- The public character of the consent protects the "I do" once given and helps the spouses remain faithful to it.

>>5316

I forgot this: 1630 The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a marriage receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church's minister (and also of the witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that marriage is an ecclesial reality.

>>5316

>>5317

Great, thank you. That helps to clear things up, at least from the Catholic perspective.

Romans 5

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 4

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

>>7153

1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?

>>7155

>1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

>2 God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?

We're saved by faith, not works; but we should still do good works.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

>>7158

We should also obey the law. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

>>7165

>We should also obey the law.

Then you are a debtor to do the whole law and faith is of now benefit to you.

>>7165

Gal 5 4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

>>7182

Again this refers to the halakha/ceremonial law of the jews

Your scriptural dishonesty or rather to use your lingo: unscriptural is exactly the reason you need to shill so hard

3 And I testify again to every man circumcising himself, that he is a debtor to the whole law.

4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.

Later St. Paul refers to certain behaviours and acts (=works) that drive you away from the Holy Spirit

16 I say then, walk in the spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would.

18 But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,

20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,

21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity,

23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law.

>>7171

Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

>>7195

dont that verse disproves immortal soul?

its very Conditionalist.

>>7196

Actually life means heaven, always.

I actually have no opinion on what happens in hell. I'd rather be cleansed in purgatory than my soul to perish.

>>7197

>Actually life means heaven

This doesnt make sense.

Catholics says that youre very much alived in hell, you can feel everything and anything 1000x more, more painful, more agony,etc.

>>7243

Yes it is in catholic theology, but since in it too, they say that the beatific vision comes right after the first death then…

its as much of an insult than being called a prottie. Which is kinda funny for me, since technically the adventist church is not protestant.

>>7243

there are two parts of hell, first hades and then gehenna

this is pretty much the only problem with the kjv translation

being cast into gehenna is the second death

>>7249

>Yes it is in catholic theology, but since in it too, they say that the beatific vision comes right after the first death then…

Like literally every denom beside adventists ;^) ?

>>7263

Because its no corrupted :^)