/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Ultimately, any type of authoritarian or totalitarian system is not compatible with Christianity, because Christians will always put God above government. You cannot serve two masters. Unless the government leaders themselves are devout Christians themselves of course, like if you had some kind of christian philosopher king, but that's never going to happen.

It's in the nature of power that the most relentless and psychopathic will rise to the top, so that wouldn't be a God-fearing christian.

Anyways Jesus never said anything about stealing from the rich to give to the poor, rather, he told the rich to voluntarily share their wealth.

>>6276

To play devil's advocate, the main goal of marxism is to produce a stateless, classless society where the workers are in control of the means of production. Essentially, a violent revolution destroys the establishment, gives people the resources to produce for themselves and then no government would exist. Theoretically, this would lead to an ideal state with minimal conflict and no chance for an oppressor class to arise. There would still be crime and psychopaths, but supposedly they'd be easier to handle.

I'm skeptical about this myself, but the supposed end-goal of Marxism seems to be a state in which Christianity can blossom and thrive. Still, this part "Jesus never said anything about stealing from the rich to give to the poor" like you mentioned still bothers me. And I see no difference whether its a gun or a tax man doing the stealing.

>>6246

>Can these two ideologies co-exist equally in the mind of one human being?

>

>If not, how much Marxist doctrine can one adopt while still staying true to Christ?

For a man cannot serve to masters because he will either… you know.

>Is the concept of a violent anti-capitalist revolution compatible with a belief in Jesus the Christ and His teachings?

No. Marxism is a materialistic ideology while Christians are called to be not of this world.

Anyone failing to realise this lacks the truth and is a victim to falsehood, openly deceivable by lies such as Marxism.

>>6298

>To play devil's advocate, the main goal of marxism is to produce a stateless, classless society where the workers are in control of the means of production. Essentially, a violent revolution destroys the establishment, gives people the resources to produce for themselves and then no government would exist. Theoretically, this would lead to an ideal state with minimal conflict and no chance for an oppressor class to arise. There would still be crime and psychopaths, but supposedly they'd be easier to handle.

The state cannot save you. The only state that is able to save you is the Kingdom of God, with the Lord Jesus Christ as high priest king.

The Kingdom won't be casteless nor lack a government.

>>6302

Yeah, you're right, the fundamentals are too different. I think superficially and when focusing on a few key aspects, one can see some similarities, at least when it comes to the things that some socialists governments have done for their poor. But they are diametrically opposed on the issue of the material, which is central to both.

I don't know. I wish we could have an actual leftist christian here to explain his rationale. I've done what I can just with my time on /leftypol/, but I can't comprehend how one can be a Christian Marxist without neglecting core tenets of either Christianity, Marxism or both. Deceived as they might be, it would be an interesting conversation.

>>6302

can you be a capitalist and a christian?

>>6310

This is a good question. The Torah has a lot to say on protecting property, but Christianity is not of this world. Christians are called to be Christians regardless of economic or social conditions.

The easier to take a camel through the eye of the needle quote comes to mind here. Being rich and holding fast to Christian virtue is very hard due to attachment to worldly matters.

Ultimately, Christianity is not materialist and christians should strive to rise above materialist concerns, of which Capitalism is very materialist. I don't think materialism can be avoided nor should it, but being Christian should be first priority.

>>6307

Many leftists christians lose their faith, because they eventually begin to look at God as a source of unjust hierarchy. Due to Christianity's conservative values socially (Not to be confused with American conservatism). Christianity isn't humanist enough for them.

>>6298

That's a bunch of infantile utopian anarchy garbage. The only type of anarchy that could fuction well in a big society in any period of time is anarcho-capitalism, but that would be destroyed as someone with big enough guns and big enough desire to rule stepped in.

>Essentially, a violent revolution destroys the establishment, gives people the resources to produce for themselves and then no government would exist

>gives people the resources to produce for themselves

Gives? They would just steal from one and give to another, essentially becoming the new state, the new violence monopoly, the new establishment, and there is no way they would relinquish their new powers after they were "done" "redistributing"

communist russia genocided 12 million christians

>>6310

How do you define capitalist? Just owning your own property and working for a living wage? Free market capitalism. Then yes definately.

If you mean venture capitalist gaming the stockmarket or corporativist capitalist trying to lobby governments to give you special privilegies then no.

>>6307

> one can see some similarities

Sure. But they are distorted, sign of the devil's work. One can also see similarities between Islam and Christianity, but anything added to the "Christian" parts is evil.

>>6310

You can certainly believe in free markets and be a Christian.

But if we view capitalism as an ideology as opposite of communism, so also as a materialistic ideology, then no.

>>6317

> I don't think materialism can be avoided nor should it

What do you mean by materialism here?

>>6317

>6317

I hear that. But honestly, if something like that is enough to drawn you away from God, then you weren't part of the elect/your faith was weak/etc. in the first place.

>>6320

> and there is no way they would relinquish their new powers after they were "done" "redistributing"

Well, so far history has proved you correct, since no Marxist-derived revolutionary government has stepped down once in power. Revolutionary Catalonia was…closer than most, but was still laden with thug-organizations, mob rule and the wanton and indiscriminate murder of right-winders and Catholics.

>>6329

>But if we view capitalism as an ideology as opposite of communism, so also as a materialistic ideology, then no.

I think the only people who see it that simply are Marxists, since they believe in historical materialism (an I am using the term "believe in" here the way that I would say a Muslim believes in Allah) which paints capitalism as a direct offspring of earlier forms of government like tribal rule and feudalistic monarchies.

>>6246

How is communism compatible with the 10 commandments?

>Thou shalt not covet

Political Marxism yes.

Philosophical Marxism no.

>>6348

Explain what you mean by this. I don't understand.

>>6321

whats wrong with the stock market?