/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>7252

Sin is part of our nature, I don't think you can really prevent sin, especially with a people who do not acknowledge sin.

Sin is transgression of the law. Saved transgressions are free from the law and thus free from sin. Doing good works is part of the Christian life but it has nothing to do with salvation. Unsaved people with good works will still go to hell because its guaranteed that their works aren't good enough and they aren't perfectly sinless, like God is perfectly sinless. Thus, while faith without works is dead, works without faith is undead in hell

>>7252

>if you are completely unable to use the rules of the Bible and the Church

what do you mean by this?

>to prevent someone from sinning?

Everybody sins. If you mean like, to reduce the amount of sinning we do, and how to do it, then my answer would be to follow Christ path, His example is the purest and perfect there is.

>>7252

From a non-christian perspective you gotta lock up the people forever

Simply explain the real world reason that these behaviours are considered sinful by christians. For the most part those that wrote the Bible did so because they wanted a better society, and happier lives for the individuals. They just made these morals divine because people tend to follow them better that way.

Post all the enlightened gentlemen you want, but a non-christian doesn't give a fuck about christian sin. However they might choose not to do these things if someone explains why you guys don't do them.

Perhaps you could be more specific about what these particular "sins" are?

>>7505

>Is this still worth it? Is it something you would persue and help someone with?

Yes.

>>7507

> For the most part those that wrote the Bible did so because they wanted a better society, and happier lives for the individuals. They just made these morals divine because people tend to follow them better that way.

No. People genuinely believed all of this. This is why they even became martyrs for the faith. No one becomes a martyr for some feel good stuff they do not believe in but that may make society "better". Atheist morals is silly anyway.

>>7505

>Someone wishes to cut a sing out of their life, because it is harmful to them, not because of the teachings of Christ or God.

One would have to point out that this is the wrong approach though.

>>7508

>No one becomes a martyr for some feel good stuff they do not believe in but that may make society "better".

Are you retarded, drunk or both? Was Otoya Yamaguchi not a martyr? Did that guy in Tianamen Square think he was tankproof? Were those chinks that drank pesticide over taxi driver pay were doing it for Buddha? Do you think Bradley Manning thought he was going to get away with it? How many men have died in revolutions? How many millions of men have died in idealistic or nationalistic wars? Or do you think every war ever has just been "DEUS VULT" and "ALLAHU ACKBAR"?

I'm not sure how pedantic you want to be over the word "martyr" but people toss away their lives for their people all the time.

>Atheist morals is silly anyway.

Because catholics are so moral, right? :^)

>One would have to point out that this is the wrong approach though.

One is wrong.

>>7517

>It is not nice to insult people.

I'm sorry.

>Literally who?

Nigga…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otoya_Yamaguchi

Dude stabbed the leader of the communist party and quite literally killed communism in Japan. Then he was arrested and Ann Hiro'd in prison.

>Was he even injured?

No, but he was completely willing to let the tanks run him over just to prove his point.

>they will not sacrifice themselve for something they do not believe in.

Yes, this is true. But people will sacrifice themselves for ideals, and people will make their ideals holy. Is it really unthinkable that someone should do both?

>the people that wrote the NT did not mean it, yet they rather died then just renounce it

No no no. They never renounced it. I'm saying that those that came up with the ideals had earthly reasons for them.

>If an atheist thinks something is good it is meaningless, without God there is only Nihilism as a valid option.

Why is what God says is good meaningful? Atheist morality is subjective, but not meaningless.

>>7574

>That whole story does not make sense if the apostles were just some dudes with an earthly agenda that wanted to make the world "better"

I guess I'll have to actually read the New Testament to see what you mean. I've only read like a couple of pages in Cornithians.

But whatever the real origins, most christian ideals have earthly practicality so to someone uninterested in being "saved" it is good to explain the practicality of a christian lifestyle.

On an unrelated note, what happened to Judas anyway? Did he end up trying to make up for what he did or did he just blow his silver on wine and whores and die in some back-alley?

>Because he has the power to enforce his ideals in eternity and is willing to do so.

Indeed, but the only absolute difference is the "eternity" part. Is it really that important that something should last forever?

>>7574

>In a world without God there is no reason to not persue your own interest at every given opportunity.

What is my interest? We are social animals and are inherently altruistic. By nature it is in our interest that the world should be better. At the end of the day, that's all morality is: A tool for making society better, improving one's quality of life and preserving what we have. If our instincts are in line with that, and evolution pushes us that way then where is the problem?

By fapping all day I sacrifice greater happiness by wasting time and fucking with my head. By selling military plans to my country's enemy I jeopardise the country I altruistically love. By selling children into sex slavery I inflict suffering which conflicts with my natural empathy. I have plenty of reasons to restrict myself.

>>7575

>I guess I'll have to actually read the New Testament to see what you mean

This is not part of the NT.

Short version:

Jesus appointed the 12 apostles as his first 12 bishops with Peter as their pope. They were meant to surrect the new people of God, the real Israel, the Church. They should do this by spreading the good news of the resurrection miracles and life of Christ.

These were all things that they saw by themselves. At first they themselve did not even want to believe it (ie Thomas), but when the resurrected Jesus appeared in front of them and different miracles occurred they were convinced.

So the remaining eleven went out into the world to tell everyone about this. The twelth, Judas Iskariot, the traitor who sold Jesus to the Guards, was not part of them. When he realised what he did to Jesus he killed himself.

The remaining eleven were persecuted while they tried to spread the faith. Mainly because they denied to worship the emperor as God.

So being a Christian could literally kill you.

When they got you you were executed. They liked to crucify you, or burn you, or feed you to the lions for example.

Unless you renounced your faith and worshiped the emperor, then you were fine.

But they denied to do so, and so most of them became martyrs. Except for two.

Peter for example was crucified. But he insisted to be crucified upside down. He said he was unworthy of being crucified like the lord.

>But whatever the real origins, most christian ideals have earthly practicality so to someone uninterested in being "saved" it is good to explain the practicality of a christian lifestyle.

If we assume that the christian God loves the Christians then it is no surprise that the lifestyle he intends for them is good.

>On an unrelated note, what happened to Judas anyway? Did he end up trying to make up for what he did or did he just blow his silver on wine and whores and die in some back-alley?

He hung himself.

>Indeed, but the only absolute difference is the "eternity" part. Is it really that important that something should last forever?

to be continued

>>7605

>to be continued

>Indeed, but the only absolute difference is the "eternity" part. Is it really that important that something should last forever?

I disagree. It is not about the eternity part, it is about this judgement CERTAINLY taking place. You cannot hide anything you did or thought.

You cannot just play being a good person nor trick others and manipulate them into thinking something about you

>>7576

still to be continued