/christ/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Don't seek to improve your life by adopting religion pragmatically. Focus exclusively on improving your life in the material sense, devote all your thought to it, there's no need to recourse to superstition that you don't truly believe in just for it to "make your life better".

If you improve your material conditions and you still find the need to be religious, then do it. Even Christians here will tell you, just because you're Christian doesn't mean you'll have more friends, a better job, more girlfriends or even be happier about who you are as a human being. The rain falls on the just and the unjust all the same.

>>9413

Thanks for that. I only had time to skin since I'm at work, but I have heard of the author. He's the only apologist I've seen win a debate on YouTube, but I didn't like the way he did it. I've read some Anselm and Aquinas, I'm really interested in the thinkers who think there is evidence once we take evolution into account.

>>9411

What you call pride in degenerancy is often pride in rejecting arbritary taboos through critical thinking. Not all of us are hedonists who love drugs and orgies, but Atheists do tend to reject unreasonable condemnations. I think a lot of the happiness smiling Christians project at church is illusionary, but I wouldn't be surprised if the religion makes a majority happier since it has been so popular.

I was probably more ingrained in the religion and I left later, so I have no qualms, no doubt about what it feels like to be Christian and what I gave up. I had all of the bible stories drilled into me by my grandmother every night from infancy through elementary school until I knew them better than many adults, and I lived in a bubble of plain Christian friends who thought the same about many things. I've lived in Plato's cave and I don't want to go back to the darkness.

>>9416

From an atheist perspective, I imagine religion evolved somewhat like this:

Goofus: Hey Gallant, I just got some shellfish, you want some?

Gallant: No, and don't eat those, they could kill you.

Goofus: Naw, my cousin ate some last week and he's fine.

Gallant: Yeah, but remember Steve and Fred? They're both dead now, and they had recently eaten shellfish before they died, so it's really not a good idea.

Goofus: Whatever, I'm going to eat them

Gallant: Look Goofus, I didn't want to tell you this, but there's an invisible man in the clouds, and he's going to be really pissed if you eat them, and he'll set you on fire.

Goofus: Okay, guess I better not.

Steven Pinker has a somewhat similar view, that we should look at the evolution of the priest and the congregation somewhat separately (though I don't think that all priests necessarily disbelieve what they're saying, in fact I imagine it was adaptive for them to believe it too after a while)

But the problem is that I don't think the taboos are so arbitrary, and I think that critical thinking can only get people so far. What person who's gone through puberty would come up with the idea that they should remain a virgin until marriage? And yet studies are showing that it leads to more stable relationships, and long-term happiness. Secular schools give out condoms and lube (the lube was flavored, and not to be used vaginally as it could cause a yeast infection). As time has gone on, I find myself seeing more and more things that in my youth seemed to be stupid taboos turning out to be intelligent ideas.

It's funny you mention Plato, he has been and continues to be a very large influence on me. It's one of the reasons I started looking back into Christianity, I had read about how heavily Plato and Aristotle influenced medieval church thinkers. If there were a church where people gathered and sang to the Form of the Good, and agreed to heed the advice of a wise man that they viewed as closer having authority enough to tell them what to do, maybe I wouldn't be looking for religion. I even thought about starting such a church, but the trouble is that it's hard to be respectable as a spiritual entrepreneur, it usually takes over a century for people to respect the adherents of such a thing.

>>9417

There's also a correlation between not having sex and the likelihood of a breakup. I had the no sex until marriage or thereafter outlook shoved down my throat, but boys tend to like girls that are younger than them at school, and it is a denial of a useful learning experience which is age-based. Chastity may keep you from reaching a state of awareness in the same way that a child who doesn't learn a language during a critical window will remain without language forever. That's my own speculation, but I'd rather err on the side of encouraging kids to have experiences responsibly than to compel them to be emotionally stunted when they compete with their peers.

A lot of Christian themes from the New Testament can be traced to the Greeks, and I am fine with skipping the middle man and hearing their reasoned voices directly, and then choosing what schools of thought to subscribe to. However I have most been more influenced by contemplating different East Asian norms than by the Greeks philosophers.

>>9415

A debate its only about 1 point, and it barely touches anything besides who its better debating.

You should read his work.

>>9421

>However I have most been more influenced by contemplating different East Asian norms than by the Greeks philosophers.

Because it agrees with what you like.

Youre not searching for truth but affirmation.

>>9452

To the contrary I compare cultures because it is a quick and easy tool for uncovering my own biases. Whenever there is a difference one should question why a culturally accepted norm is justified, be it in politics, nationalism, religion, etc . I have a mixed heritage so I have naturally done this all my life.