310536 No.255291
Trump explains how to deal with muslim terrorists.
This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
629105 No.255292
Trump has no understanding of Christian love.
Love thy enemies, pray for those who wrong you. - Jesus Christ, Lord Almighty, Trump Stumper.
629105 No.255301
>>255298
Christ fulfilled the old law.
Matthew 22:36-40
310536 No.255303
>>255301
>Christ fulfilled the old law.
that only confirms Exodus 21:12 is still valid, along with all moral precepts.
629105 No.255305
310536 No.255306
>>255305
>love your enemy
love means doing what is good. Love isn't just emotional woo-woo. Executing a murderer is good, that has never changed.
629105 No.255308
>>255306
1 Corinthians 13:4-8
There is nothing loving about killing anyone.
310536 No.255309
>>255308
Romans 13:1–7
If a ruler abides by Exodus 21:12 you are saying he is sinning?
You seem to think Christ came to abolish the old moral law, not fulfill it. He did not abolish the old moral law.
629105 No.255310
>>255309
So long as a person is alive, they have the opportunity to repent and come to Christ. When you kill them, you rob them of that chance.
Prison, yes.
Execution, no.
310536 No.255311
>>255310
If execution was inherently immoral it would never have been commanded by God. It has a function in society. Christ said he didn't abolish the old law, none of it, and if you change even one letter of it you are missing the point.
Exodus 21:12 is just as binding as ever. Don't confuse "love your enemy" as wishy-washy nonsense. If you love your enemy, you would execute a murderer. If you love a thief, you would imprison him. It's for their own good
629105 No.255312
>>255311
The Old Testament stopped applying when Christ was born. His sacrifice abolished all sin.
When Christ met Saul on the road to Damascus, did He kill him?
9f33af No.255313
What's with all modernists on the board today? Seems like every other thread has 2-3 posters screaming about how conservatives are going to hell.
Did I miss something? Is r/christianity leaking?
629105 No.255314
>>255313
Nobody in this thread has said anything about hell.
9f33af No.255315
>>255314
Well, loosely speaking of course here, but I did say "every other thread" generally.
Still, what's going on? I haven't browsed every thread yet.
f8fdab No.255316
310536 No.255317
File: 1455950218028.jpg (88.42 KB, 853x480, 853:480, airplane_robert_hays_ted_s….jpg)
>>255312
>>255312
>The Old Testament stopped applying when Christ was born.
>>The Old Testament stopped applying
what are you even talking about? You're literally reading the term "to fulfill" as meaning "to abolish" and he literally said that isn't the case. The opposite is the case. He strengthened it. Adultery isn't just illicit sex now, it is simply lusting after a woman with your thoughts. It used to be that you could divorce for whatever reason, now you can't divorce at all except in the case of adultery.
You're really misreading the NT.
629105 No.255319
>>255315
It's the usual disagreement between someone clinging to the old Jewish law and someone who accepts Christ's law.
I'm not too sure the two will ever agree. I could quote scripture all day long, but making the blind see is not always easy.
My friend and I disagree on Christ's message.
310536 No.255320
>>255316
>mainstream history doesn't agree with this story
>snopes
ya, mainstream history also says Jesus never rose from the dead and that the NT is corrupted, and that the holohoax involved gassing jews.
629105 No.255321
>>255317
Matthew 5:44
Matthew 22:36-40
You need to read the Bible and stop worshiping Trump.
f8fdab No.255322
>>255318
If it happened where is the evidence?
f8fdab No.255323
>>255320
But there is good evidence for the resurrection. Is there any evidence for the Pershing story?
310536 No.255324
>>255321
Jesus said if you love him you'd keep his commandments. He commanded in Exodus 21:12 to execute murderers.
That is love.
>>255323
> Is there any evidence for the Pershing story?
Trump said it, that's good enough tbh
9f33af No.255325
>>255319
Over most of Page 1? Usually it's the usually Prod/RC/Orto three-way or some funposter. It seems different today somehow.
629105 No.255328
>>255324
Christ's commandments? READ THE BIBLE!
Matthew 5:44
Matthew 22:36-40
>Trump said it, that's good enough
I am dusting off my sandals and moving on. Your worship of Trump will lead you on a dark path. I will pray for you.
629105 No.255330
>>255325
A lot of it comes down to evidence. When presented with Christ's message, the response is almost always "lol cuck!"
They're just trolls. I don't usually engage them this much, but I happened to have nothing else to do at the moment.
471ea2 No.255331
>>255328
trusting someone's word isn't worship
9f33af No.255332
>>255325
(Ortho)
>>255328
Oh, it's just some Republican vs Democrat stuff.
f8fdab No.255336
>>255291
Also want to make note of the fact that OP literally compared Trump to Christ with his "This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" quote. That's borderline blasphemous.
310536 No.255337
>>255328
>Matthew 5:44
>Matthew 22:36-40
none of those contradict what I'm saying, they support what I'm saying.
You seem to think Christ abolished the moral law of the OT. That isn't the case. It's just as valid as ever.
You realize it's Christ "talking" in the OT? It wasn't some weird evil Demiurge or whatever you gnostics tell yourselves.
Upholding a commandment of Jesus is to love, it is to do good. And exodus commands us to execute murderers.
310536 No.255345
>>255292
Trump already addressed that issue
3f7dff No.255362
>>255292
If you let a murderer go free, you are held accountable for every life he takes.
Indifference is not a virtue. To not feel anger when confronted with injustice is not a virtue. We have rage for a reason. Just as lust has a place within marriage so does hatred for evil.
Taking a life and love are mutually exclusive. You have an obligation to every man, woman, and child to protect them from the suffering that evil men might bring upon them. If a man attacks your brethren, your FAMILY, you send them to God. Simple as that.
The Crusades and Inquisition are not something to feel shame over.
276c58 No.255367
>>255337
The Law doesn't apply anymore, anyone who pretensd it does is retarded. You don't follow the Law at all, so stop pretending you can use it. No Law in Exodus applies anymore.
3f7dff No.255370
>>255367
You obviously don't know the difference between the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law.
Fun Fact: There is a reason we can eat shellfish and bacon but homosexuality is still a sin.
276c58 No.255374
>>255370
The principles of the moral law are always valid. But no part of the Law applies.
3f7dff No.255377
>>255374
>The principles of the moral law are always valid. But no part of the Law applies
What the fuck does that even mean?
310536 No.255378
>>255374
> But no part of the Law applies.
>>255367
>The Law doesn't apply anymore
what are you even saying?
276c58 No.255386
>>255377
>>255378
The principles that cause something to be sin are still valid. The punishments for those don't. Are you retarded? Did you hit your head or something?
310536 No.255387
>>255386
>murder is wrong but it should have no punishment
How can that work in a normal society? No more prison or fines? Imprisonment is a harsh punishment itself, psychologically it is torture. And what if the inmate tries to escape or continues to kill other inmates? Put him in solitary, that's another form of torture.
And what if he's climbing the walls and about to escape? Shoot him dead or let him escape?
>Are you retarded? Did you hit your head or something?
abaea5 No.255388
>>255377
>>255378
Are these guys serious?
To put it for him another way, the principles involve selflessness and perfect love for all of creation. The law does apply -because- it is law, yet the ten commandments still are followed because going against them inherently fails in the selflessness requirement in Christian love.
Homosexuality is (1) acting on personal libido, (2) in a way not sanctioned by Christ. Therefore, it's inherently selfish (not to mention hurting all of us by promoting STDs and lower birthrates) and a sin.
276c58 No.255390
>>255387
There should be a punishment unrelated to the Law. Can you quote where I say there should be no punishment for something, retard? Maybe you should learn to read.
310536 No.255394
>>255390
>There should be a punishment unrelated to the Law.
Again this doesn't mean anything at all.
The Law we had gives us punishments ordained by the DIVINE.
Are you suggesting we ignore those injunctions and come up with our own, secular punishments? Based on what?
Where is any of this stuff in the bible? Where does it say to ignore punishments prescribed in the OT and just make up our own?
> retard? Maybe you should learn to read.
why attack me? stick to the topic
310536 No.255396
>>255388
>To put it for him another way, the principles involve selflessness and perfect love for all of creation.
How is carrying out God's prescribed punishment not an act of pure love? Are you saying God "got it wrong" ?
Are you saying you know what the punishments "ought to be" ? Where do you derive these holy punishments? What do you suggest we do with rapists and murderers via your idea of "selfless love and perfection of all creation" ?
abaea5 No.255399
>>255396
>How is carrying out God's prescribed punishment not an act of pure love? Are you saying God "got it wrong" ?
No, man did - or the laws were laid down for Israel in a specific time and place and weren't meant for us.
The point is that Christ, in several instances explains to Pharisees that the ceremonial laws were irrelevant "the Sabbath is for man" and "it is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him but what comes out of his mouth" among others.
As for what the punishments ought to be? They ought to be whatever will most likely to (1) cause them to convert and (2) prevent them from harming our brothers and sisters in Christ with their sin.
276c58 No.255406
>>255394
And those punishments no longer apply. It's that easy, retard. What part don't you understand this time?
Maybe you should take a look at some things Paul wrote. Maybe you should consider how nobody follows the Law, maybe you should take a look at tradition, jew.
I attack you because you are stupid
310536 No.255408
>>255399
>>255406
Nothing in scripture says the punishments were abrogated.
You can argue about ceremonial laws ending, that's fine, I agree. But I don't see where punishments were abolished. Give me the verse.
310536 No.255410
>>255406
>>255390
>I attack you because you are stupid
>, retard
> jew
>retard learn to read.
whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
abaea5 No.255411
>>255408
Trying to interpret the bible legalistically, when Christ was decrying the Pharisees for exactly that, is pretty ironic. His whole point was to follow the principle of love - the greatest commandment - rather than any individual verse.
The greatest commandment supercedes anything that contradicts it: Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind, life and strength and your neighbor as yourself.
If you really need a verse: "he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Even if the punishments are valid (which they're not) no one has the right to carry them out.
276c58 No.255412
>>255408
Nothing in scripture talks about ceremonial laws, hypocrite. By your own standards you make an arbitrary distinction so that, in the end, you can do whatever you want. You are just exactly like a jew. It's incredible how some things keep happening after 2000 years.
Romans 2:14-15
Acts 15
Etc etc
You are a hypocrite, you ignore the parts that don't suit you. You talk about the Bible and ignore tradition. You are disgusting. That is reality. That is how you are, so don't try to blame me because I hurt your feelings. Blame yourself for being an idiot.
abaea5 No.255413
>>255412
This brother >>255410 has some wise remarks you should consider, even if I agree with you theologically (although the decalogue is valid because it logically must be if the greatest commandment is what is being followed)
310536 No.255414
>>255411
> His whole point was to follow the principle of love - the greatest commandment - rather than any individual verse.
Yes, it's love to abide by God's laws, and the punishments he prescribes. How is that not love? Jesus said if you love me you'd keep my commandments, and he didn't abolish the law, and not one letter can be changed from it until heaven and earth pass away.
So clearly executing a murderer is not only just but an act of pure love, love of the other and love of God. If the murderer understood God, he would ask for it.
>>255412
dietary customs and circumcision were clearly shown to be irrelevant.
the moral law is still binding, you haven't showed me one verse that says the moral consequences of the law no longer apply.
7d1137 No.255457
>>255313
Disagreeing with Trump and/or emphasizing something wrong with his policy or campaign isn't indicative of modernism, and I say that as someone fond of Trump.
55a43e No.255476
>>255314
Did he abolish that too?
d01ecf No.255482
>>255292
Jesus Christ came to talk about problems facing the average person in everyday life. He's talking about social slights in this situation. Forgive those who insult you and things like that. There are other passages outside of the Gospel that deal with the treatment of people who commit heinous crimes. Take the story of the rape of Dinah for instance. Some pagans gangraped Jacob's daughter, so Jacob's sons went out and killed them all. Or consider the times when God commanded genocide against entire nations because they practiced especially evil forms of paganism involving the burning of children. These passages have nothing to do with the Law of Moses, so saying that the Old Law was fulfilled would be irrelevant here. Again, Jesus came to talk to the common man about what he should do in everyday life. Because 99% of us are common men who will live in everyday life 99% of the time. Instructions for running a country are found in books outside of the Gospel.
e2997b No.255512
>>255310
Not really.. They know they're condemned to death, none of that thief in the night stuff of them, they get a nice last meal and plenty of time to talk with the prison chaplain before they are executed.
This might actually save souls.
bab4c7 No.255529
>>255362
Well according to Trump's story, Pershing did let a murderer go free.
bab4c7 No.255530
>>255370
>There is a reason we can eat shellfish and bacon but homosexuality is still a sin.
Why's that?
42fc29 No.255555
>>255313
Trump is neither a conservative or a Christian. You are being deceived by a liar.
d5dd19 No.255566
>>255292
>If someone comes at you and wants to end your life, then just give up and die
- Said Jesus never
008a48 No.255567
>>255399
>(1) cause them to convert
Death penalty. If they don't repent in the death row, they don't repent at all.
>(2) prevent them from harming our brothers and sisters in Christ with their sin.
Death penalty. Dead people can't harm anyone.
bab4c7 No.255570
>>255566
Nobody said that you have to give up, but execution isn't necessary if you have options to end the conflict peacefully.
34d492 No.255571
abaea5 No.255587
>>255414
>he didn't abolish the law, and not one letter can be changed from it until heaven and earth pass away.
Please, please read a commentary on this verse. It's universally understood (until recently, with a bunch of uneducated people trying to read a historical text) that Christ fulfilled the law (all is fulfilled) on the Christ and we are no longer subject to it.
>So clearly executing a murderer is not only just but an act of pure love, love of the other and love of God. If the murderer understood God, he would ask for it.
Ask the Holy Spirit and pray about this. I can say that, with my time spent with the Holy Spirit, I never felt an execution would be a good thing. I always felt it was more an admission humans had failed to help that person and our resources were low and we were desperate. I don't think you're looking to redeem that person at all anymore and I don't think that's the tone Christ came to set.
abaea5 No.255588
>>255567
In a life or death situation, such as a battelfield, I see your point.
In a society with massive excess wealth, what excuse is there for not giving them lifetime solitary with a bible until they repent?
e50f65 No.255594
>>255588
If they're not going to repent on pain of death then what makes you think they're going to repent at all?
310536 No.255725
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>255555
>>255313
The world isn't ready for Trump, he came too soon, we are still blind. Prophets are always rejected by their own people…
000000 No.255733
>>255725
Calling Trump a prophet is almost blasphemy. My vote would be in favor of Ted Cruz.
310536 No.255736
>>255733
> Ted Cruz.
Nope. He's the biggest liar in the campaign. He's a nasty guy, worse than Rubio.
55a43e No.256513
>>255733
You would, wouldn't you?
>>255736
What's the deal with all these Hispanics turning into massive heretics the moment they step on American soil?
81f50e No.256534
Which is worse:
banning muslims
or
bombing muslims
If I was a muslim (god forbid) I'd rather not get blown up in a drone strike. These are the only two options. If muslims are allowed into a country they will cause violence which has to be dealt with.
Keep them in their own backwards moon worshipping hell holes
50d424 No.256670
>>256534
Do we protect the people here or do we "love" violent people by letting them in thus putting the natives in danger.
It seems selfish to me to ignore protecting others so you can project how "loving" you are.
a4e36b No.256701
>>255291
Dear God.
If I kill myself would I not be allowed to meet God in the Kingdom of Heaven?
946ea1 No.256788
>>256701
Suicide is a mortal sin, so please don't do it.
95778d No.259552
>>255298
what vigo movie is that?
310536 No.259578
>>255733
This should change your mind about Cruz.
4eb026 No.259584
>>255292
You have no idea what "love" is.
b084c3 No.259609
Meanwhile our fearless Catholic "intellectuals"…
http://archive.is/CqdtN
205172 No.259642
War against a violent regime would be a just war. Collateral damage may happen, but the cost would be outweighed by the benefits.
2ff60f No.259658
>>259609
>let's kill terrorists families
Why he kept saying these kind of things, all US candidates seem to be bloodthirsty murderers.