/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Jesus speant 3 days in hell and when he rose again he brought the just dead with him.

>>259490

Technically it was less than two days. He died at 3PM on Friday and rose before sunrise on Sunday.

Around 36 hours

I don't think God ever gave His reasons, so the most we can do is speculate. My pet theory is that He first wanted to prove that not even a small, homogenous and religiously-isolated chosen segment of humanity could ever reach His standards by their own efforts, and that we desperately need a savior.

They gained salvation in the same way people who lived after Christ came gained salvation. Except from their point of view, they looked forward to the fullness of time of the Messiah, as we who live now look back at the time of the Messiah and the work on the cross.

>>259490

To say Christ went to hell is a misunderstanding of the reality of hell, and Christ's own words on the Cross, ' Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit' and to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord. Hell is logically eternal separation from God. This is not possible with regards to Christ ..because He is God the Son.

1 Peter 3:18-20

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

How can His plan be merciful or just if it requires every accountable individual to be baptized when billions of people have died without the opportunity to hear the gospel and choose baptism? The Apostle Peter described the provisions God has made: “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just [meaning Jesus Christ] for the unjust [meaning you and me], that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit” (1 Pet. 3:18). This Christ did in order to bring the gift of eternal life to all.

The Apostle Peter continued, “By which also he [Jesus Christ] went and preached unto the spirits in prison” (1 Pet. 3:19).

Who were these people in the spirit world? They were both righteous and unrighteous people who had died. Some had been disobedient and rejected the gospel in the days of Noah (1 Pet. 3:20). Some had been in the spirit world for thousands of years!

Why was the gospel preached in the spirit world? So that the dead might repent and live according to the will of God (1 Pet. 4:6). Mercy and justice require that those who have died without an opportunity to hear the gospel in mortality receive that opportunity in the spirit world. Mercy and justice also require that those who have rejected the gospel in this life receive some opportunity to hear it again.

1 Peter 3:18-20

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

How can His plan be merciful or just if it requires every accountable individual to be baptized when billions of people have died without the opportunity to hear the gospel and choose baptism? The Apostle Peter described the provisions God has made: “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just [meaning Jesus Christ] for the unjust [meaning you and me], that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit” (1 Pet. 3:18). This Christ did in order to bring the gift of eternal life to all.

The Apostle Peter continued, “By which also he [Jesus Christ] went and preached unto the spirits in prison” (1 Pet. 3:19).

Who were these people in the spirit world? They were both righteous and unrighteous people who had died. Some had been disobedient and rejected the gospel in the days of Noah (1 Pet. 3:20). Some had been in the spirit world for thousands of years!

Why was the gospel preached in the spirit world? So that the dead might repent and live according to the will of God (1 Pet. 4:6). Mercy and justice require that those who have died without an opportunity to hear the gospel in mortality receive that opportunity in the spirit world. Mercy and justice also require that those who have rejected the gospel in this life receive some opportunity to hear it again.

Some early church fathers liked the Gospel of Peter. A non-canonical book not written by Peter that claims the very cross itself witnessed to the dead that they too could choose to be saved. It was not canonized for a reason.

Others liked the doctrine of purgatory. That once their sins were punished they get to be in limbo and not suffer.

The whole idea of an afterlife was new when Jesus came about. Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones was interpreted as Israel rising again, but some saw it as a literal coming resurrection.

Jesus, the Essenes, and the Pharisees (Modern Orthodox) saw it as real. Saducees (and modern reform Jews) saw it as a metaphor for Israel rising again. Because bones were in the vision early Christians and Orthodox Jews did not cremate. Just to be safe.

In Judaism they have a concept called "Noahic covenant" Basically in order to be a 'Righteous Gentile" you only need to follow 7 laws, and that gets you a pass on judgement day. If you read the Old Testament you'll see some sins get pagans punished, and others like circumcision and keeping kosher were not for them, but Jews alone. That is where they get this idea. I highly doubt that determines your ressurection.

I don't think that was how God decides it. I do hope I get to meet Confucius in the ressurection, but I can't say for sure. Perhaps they are innocent by their ignorance. Like dead children. This is the common Protestant explanation.

Not explaining these doctrines to the Japanese is why Francis Xavier didn't get many converts in glorious Nippon.

>>259543

excellent explanation. This is the traditional Catholic explanation as well. Thanks for using Scripture. That is the best way to explain any doctrine. Even vague ones like this.

From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. – Acts 17:26-27

light of creation, John Chap 1vs20 - since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Everyone from all time, from the one man, has had the opportunity of knowing God, that is to say He shines the light everywhere on everyone.

Romans 2 – the light of consciousness. – For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Romans 4:2-3 - If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a

1 Corinthians 5:7- Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed( each year they celebrated the Passover to keep them focused on the One who was to come to die for their sins)

and then Jesus said – John 19:30- When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

So the work of atoning for sins for all mankind from beginning to end was done, ' finished' there on the cross.

Luke 23:43 - 43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 23:46- Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”

Luke 16:19-25 -19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

There is a difference in Gehenna and Hades

Hades is a place where both Abraham's Bossom is..that is Paradise and also the temporary abode and one being eternal. One being inclusive, the other being eternal for the damned.

>>259560

not John chap 1vs20, it's supposed to be Romans Chap 1vs20..sorry

>>259529

the Creed's hell is Hades, that is, Sheol…

dead man's land, not hell, the second death, Gehenna/tartaros.

Some disagreement over this. Some say in BC the dead went to Sheol which was not exactly hell but not heaven, just a dreary land of blind wandering. Some also say the good went to an area of Sheol called the Bosom of Abraham that was a place of comfort.

>>259593

Thanks for being clear, it helps. I am not always quite as clear.

>>259593

This makes SO MUCH more sense. Especially in light of old non-canonical texts like the Apocalypse of Peter. This also explains the catholic purgatory doctrine.