/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>260225

http://www.protestanterrors.com/

>>260227

What is so heretical about it? From what I understand Protestantism was started because the priests were selling indulgences for the forgiveness of sins and the only way to be forgiven of sins is to ask the lord for forgiveness.

>>260229

Your understanding is incorrect then

>>260237

Then what is the truth about the beginnings of the reformation?

>>260240

I won't deny it, that first picture is pretty accurate.

The Catholics on this board are jealous of protestants because they know if it had been left up to their own church they still wouldn't be able to read the Bible to this day. They also hate protestants for exposing all their cherished false doctrines, like necromancy (prayer to dead saints), literal vampirism and cannibalism (eating and drinking what they deem to be literal flesh and blood), playing with beads for forgiveness of sins, forbidding marriage for priests, Christ being unable to forgive sins without using priests as middle men, Mariolatry, idolatry, barely disguised paganism, etc.

>>260241

It was the cancer that killed Christianity.

Luther was a pathetic loser that was insecure about his lack of virtue and decided that he was saved simply because he believed in Jesus.

He knew that he was not good enough, and instead of bettering himself, he decided to change reality.

A destroyer of virtue and tradition. His mere existence was an insult to God. A Satanist pretending to be a Christian.

Of course, thanks to him, the understanding of the Bible became a common thing. Now, even those too stupid to learn Latin can decide what their own convenient truth is.

>>260225

In the US, conservative Protestants generally support Israel, and those Protestants who don't support Israel tend to be liberals.

bearing in mind that /christian/ is full of /pol/ transplants and you'll understand why apostolicism is in vogue…

also, Thomism. Thomistic philosophy normally rapes atheist "logic" in 10 fucking seconds, but Protestantism traditionally rejects Thomism.

>>260247

While I do agree that the reformation that he started has opened the door to many heresies, why should the common man not be able to read the Bible in his own tongue?

>>260250

What is thomistic philosophy? I have never heard of if.

>>260251

Think of it as a form of natural selection. Someone that is incapable of learning Latin has no business reading the Bible.

Only the elite should be able to understand it, not the sheep. If you want to read it, you should have to work for it and prove that you are intellectually competent.

People like that are less likely to make up their own convenient interpretations and more likely to search for the truth.

I also dislike the symbolism of giving the Bible to the peasants, making them think that all Christians are equal and that there is no reason for them to improve themselves and acquire more knowledge. Doing that destroyed any sense of hierarchy. It diminished the authority of the wise and gave a whole lot of power to the fools.

>>260251

Daily reminder that Isaac Newton wrote his works in Latin so everybody could read them. Daily reminder that Catholic translations of the bible often pre-dated Protestant ones

>>260254

>Only the elite should be able to understand it, not the sheep.

if you actually lived in your ideal world, I have a feeling that you, plebian, would have a different opinion.

>>260259

Thanks

>>260258

Wait, were these catholic bible translations before the reformation official? I thought that all such efforts were suppressed by the papacy.

>>260262

That wouldn't be me, would it?

When you make something easy to get, you make it cheap. That is my point.

>>260254

But what if a person reads his Bible and then seeks the guidance of a church elder? What then?

>>260265

>When you make something easy to get, you make it cheap.

but, the Bible was originally written in coarse, low, koine Greek for a coarse, low Greek speaking audience…it's original status was "easy to get".

really, it just sounds like you have an elitist stick up your ass that makes you want to role play as some 17th century nobleman.

>>260269

Just pointing out what would have been better for everyone. Making everything so easy removed even more self-improvement from religion.

What is wrong with giving people an incentive to improve themselves? Why should they have the right to get something that is supposed to be valuable with no effort on their part?

>>260272

what you're on about doesn't simply promote self improvement, though. it outright raises the barriers to entry for a particular field arbitrarily.

when you arbitrarily raise the barriers to entry, you create conditions that are favourable for the formation of a cartel. I.e. you have a small pool of people who can actually engage in that field, and they will tend to associate and work towards their own collective interests, as we see in modern telecom companies etc.

when you have a cartel, you end up seeing exploitation of the populace. in business, it's normally expressed as artificially high fixed prices that are mutually agreed upon by the cartel members. in religion, it's expressed by the bishop of Mainz and the bishop of Rome colluding to deprive the German people of their money through indulgence Hawking.

TL;Dr with high barriers to entry, you decrease accountability for those who are in command. it's just like how scientists can carte blanche invent bullshit because 90% of their cited works live behind a paywall that the common man cannot access.

>>260225

They converted because of memes and all the know are strawmens

>>260247

Why do you spread so much misinformation?

>>260354

>It's not good to spread lies or misinformation

I'm not. bear in mind that I said that Protestants traditionally reject Thomism. Luther himself started the tradition through his general rejection of aristotelianism.

bear in mind that I'm speaking in good faith as well; I am a Protestant, and an admirer of Thomism myself, so don't act as if I'm here to bash non papal Christianity.

>…wat

thomas' five ways do unequivocally prove the classical theist concept of God, and can only be argued against if the atheist is allowed to move the goalposts and define God in theistic personalist terms.

it rapes the atheist so much that he has to either lie or make an argument from pathos in order to defeat Thomistic reasoning.

>>260359

I'm more than aware of the means. But I wouldn't consider them "Catholic" in that they only exist within the catholic framework or were even invented BY a catholic (let alone catholicism). You can thank Aristotle for that. Since they are lifted directly out of his writing (well most of them).

>>260359

Presuppositionalism destroys atheism. See Greg Bahnsen.

Because it is a false man made religion and is unbiblical. It is objectively not Christianity

>>260451

Says the medieval corruption of Christianity interwined with paganism. Kek.

>>260452

Don't get at me because you aren't saved. Sounds like you also don't any thing about the history of the church except what your devil worshipping pastor has taught. I'd suggest you read a book.

>>260461

This is hilarious. You actually believe all this delusion? I can't blame you. Everything you know is from jpgs and cherrypicked statements. You don't have the attention span to read any serious works, watch debates or any documentaries of sorts.

Stick to LARPing matey.

>>260461

Dude, seriously. That is not an effective way to argue. We are trying to come together in Christ, not alienate people who believe 95% of the same thing as us, serving the same risen Savior and persecuted by the same Fedoras and kebabs.

>>260467

I am here in hopes of convincing Roman Catholics to come to true faith. The Roman church is a false church. I love my Roman Catholic brethren but I can't claim any co-belligerence with you guys on the basis of a 'shared faith'.

>>260465

That's a whole of projecting my friend. Bearing false witness is a sin, you know nothing of the works I have read/watched. But if it's a documentary you want, you can have this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L14UNjaZJm8

>>260467

>95%

That's not true at all. A false religion is a false religion and unsaving. I won't sugarcoat it.

>>260468

>true faith

>founded by Billy Johnson in the USA in 1794

>>260472

Refuted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSzJgUPjQSs

>>260474

It's sad you are going to hell because you choose memes over Christianity.

This is my commandment that you love one another, that your joy may be full.

Even Peter, who'd denied Jesus is the Christ multiple times, even Peter was restored to Christ thru faith in Him after the resurrection. Jesus said ' Do you love me?' Peter said..' Yes Lord I love you '. Multiple times they had this exchange. Feed my sheep was Jesus' reply. And well, you will die hung up like on a cross too…and Peter said, well what about him?(referring to John) And Jesus said…what is it to you?

>>260358

>>260246

These. The catholic church has historically been very antichrist.

https://youtu.be/RmXBj2N9fhY

>>260477

Do Old Believers even use the internet, let alone browse /pol/ or /christian/ for that matter?

>>260246

This is why prots are hated. They are very divorced from original christian ideas and it just can drive us nuts at times. For example, mormons, FREAKING MORMONS, are a by product (read, logical conclusion) to protestantism. Of course the post i am responding to is an exaggerated troll, but the truth is at the end of the day thats basically what prots believe. Shows how divorced they are and how ridiculous it must have been for the first prots to starts running around saying

>the church is corrupt!

>hey yeah that makes a lot of sense!

>we must reform and get this corruption out!

>yeah!

>we must stomp out this idolatry of the saints!

>w-wait what

>the church is pagan, we have recovered the true belief of the apostles, you guys have been wrong all along!

>…

>the euharist isnt even real guise!!!111

And then the real christians burnt the weird people.

>Why is Protestantism disliked so much on this board?

>This board

Well my fellow crusaders even heathens don't like protestantism on a theological level. It has no traditional elements and intrinsically binds itself to each individuals understanding of verses which leads to countless denominational splits and outright heretical viewpoints. Catholicism may not be perfect but between Thomism and the roman-style hierarchy of the pontiffs it at least has absorbed many truly european thought-forms and guards them jealously with institutions built to resist reform. To be protestant is to truly be a spiritual semite as due to sola scriptura only those words put to paper by semites and in the way semites interpreted them are what one unravels in ones mind devoid of a millennium and a half of internal dialogue and roman ideological filtration by learned thinkers within the church. With sola fide one is told that only those notions one gleans from their own reading of the bible and a vague acceptance of christ is necessary to remain saved and so any amount of refugee importation that one believes is a part of ones personal walk is within christ's will, etc.

It's a recipe for disaster on so many levels. Not even to mention there are like fifteen thousand denominations of baptists alone, lel all vying for recognition with their fractionally different messages. If you acknowledge that christ had a message then you must acknowledge that protestantism is at least 90% incorrect as a given whole with such a wide field of thoughts from zionist megachurches to anti-missionary anabaptists. You essentially box yourself into a lifetime of defending your belief with 'no true scotsman' fallacy against any embarrassing protestants people try to show you to explain why protestantism just doesn't work ("Oh well their personal walk isn't the real personal walk like my personal walk is"). If there is to be any future for a christian europe it is going to be a catholic future.

And I know they think that because I uh… overheard some of them saying that as I was chopping down their trees… D-DEUS VULT!

>>260251

Do you understand that when the Reformation started, the 'common man' could not read in any tongue, let alone his own? Anyone who actually could read (priests, scholars, scribes), was fluent in Latin.

>>260251

90% of the European population was illiterate up untill the 17th century or so, if not longer.

>>260263

Official or not, I think the biggest problems with the Luther translations where the huge amounts of heresy in them; adding words and even removing books and epistles to fit his interpretation.

Luther was cool and all when he went against the indulgences costing money, but he got tempted by satan and tried to just make his own religion at the end.

Oh and also this >>260343.

Looting monasteries and annexing their lands was a very profitable business for the kings. Not for the lower classes ofcourse, but who cared? Well the monks did, but they were shooed away.

Considering this all, combined by the doctrines and dogmas that stood firm for over 1,5 millenia before that heretic who started it all was even born and the Holy Tradition on which the Church has grown, everything else besides catholicism and its schisms (Eastern Orthodox, Copts, Orientals) cannot be called christianity.

It's the same as saying that someone is a buddhist because he believes that Buddha existed he was a very smart man and tries to follow its morals but doesn't even know the principles of karma/reincarnation because that isn't what he likes and just says that karma means you'll get a bad life when you do bad things.

Does this latter example sound familiar?

Does it sound like those edgy teens who want to be special nowadays?

Well guess what, that's what you protestants actually are in our eyes; edgy teens who want to be special.

>>261392

I really wouldn't start an argument about which side contains more edgy teenagers, given how easy it is to spot new Catholics by the frequency with which they say "Deus Vult".

t. former edgy teenage Catholic convert

>>261395

>I really wouldn't start an argument about which side contains more edgy teenagers

…that was not my point at all.

>>261395

>I really wouldn't start an argument about which side contains more edgy teenagers, given how easy it is to spot new Catholics by the frequency with which they say "Deus Vult".

I just came back from a confirmation mass for a group of converts. Not a single one of them said "Deus Vult" even once.

Saging because all these image macros and muh heresy. Why do you guys continue to try to spread conflict amongst believers?

At least orthos act like decent people.

>>261551

yes let them rot in hell! What you're trying to say?

Protestants and their satanic /Freemason Masterhave condemned many millions of souls to hell.

>and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Protestant reformation begins 16th century.

>>261561

>>and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

>Protestant reformation begins 16th century.

People were protesting the Catholic Church as soon as it started promoting heresy.

John Wycliffe was so scary they burned his bones after his death. 14th century

Orthodox schism in 13th century due to creeds.

How many people has Rome tortured and burned by the way? Witches, heretics, political enemies and the like. There's a big reason that for a thousand years people have been calling Anti-Christ.

>>261567

>man is incapable of understanding the bible

>man must be taught the bible by other men

>hate the kjv due to rumours of King James' homosexuality

>attends church ruled by proven paedophiles and sodomites.

>must keep bible out of the hands of the people due to possible false doctrine

>is taught

Penance

Works salvation

Papal infallbilty

Purgatory

Perpetual virginity

Prayers for the dead

Tradition over scripture

Amillenialism

>>261569

>doesn't read the points I made (or it seems like it)

>shitposts without addressing even one of them

I'll expand on the Queen James Bible portion. Whenever a new translation is made, there's usually a team with clergy, translators, scholars, and other academics. Either the front or the back of a Bible will contain a credits page with the entire staff along with their credentials and positions. The QJB editors decided to translate eight passages to justify the LGBT cause. As far as I know there is no information on the editors or their credentials. There isn't an inherent problem with vernacular Bibles but there is with botching up the translation.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/queen-james-bible-publisher-releases-gay-friendly-bible-translation

>>261566

Atleast Orthodoxy can trace its apostolic succession unlike protestantism as far as I know

>>261571

Apologies for shit posting about QJB. Forgot that fags had made their own bible.

Anti catholic stuff still stands.

>>261572

As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

The baptists, of which I belong, have no need for apostolic succession, because we are all apostles and brothers in Christ. Christ is the head of each church and we have a pastor appointed who is a spiritual guardian. If you start with this apostolic succession, you basically say that one person, the pope (or patriarch as you call them) is somehow spiritually superior to everyone else.

You set up kings.

Why do that? Simply because you are lazy, and have been for a millennia, you orthodox keep repeating that you are the true church, the ancient faith and its because you need to keep reinforcing the lie.

You're no better than the RCC. And protestantism scares you, because its fanatical, and history has proven that protties are willing to die for their faith.. Meaning you can't bully or threaten submission. Orthodox came from Rome, and repeats Rome's lies and scriptural manipulations.

Seriously, theology from hymns and pictures! Anything to avoid the bible.

>>261569

>Penance

I'm not going to even bother finding the innumerable verses on this topic, it's pretty much in every other page of the Old Testament. If you mean auricular confession, then this is based off the interpretation in Matthew 16:19 where it says that the mystical body of the Church is given the keys to heaven, and that it has the power to remit sins.

Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you forgive on earth will be forgiven in heaven.

>Works salvation

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A14-26&version=NKJV

Very protestant interpretation on this issue but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezXufQWvIlw

The Protestant view of salvation merely says that works are fruits of faith, and without fruits you do not have faith. The Catholic/Orthodox view is that you gain justification by living a righteous life (and faith), and this is only possible by Christ.

>Papal infallbilty

I am Orthodox, and do not believe this.

>Purgatory

I am Orthodox, and do not believe this.

>Perpetual virginity

This is what the Church believed since the start. Martin Luther believed it. The only argument against seems to be that James, who was the cousin or half-brother (in that the son of Joseph, as Jesus' "father") of Jesus. We see the word 'brother' used frequently in the bible. In this case I am inclined to trust tradition.

>Prayers for the dead

All protestants must necessarily believe in an intermediate state between death and the afterlife.

I cannot imagine the prayers are purposeless - especially for those who died in precarious moral situations but are fundamentally good people.

>Tradition over scripture

Please tell me where the bible affirms the idea that scripture is superior to tradition in Christianity. The difference is that for us, Christianity is a living faith that did not cease to be inspired by 70 AD or so onwards - for the Council of Nicea up until the second Council of Nicea were all inspired.

>Amillenialism

I thought every denomination, protestant and catholic taught this with exception to some strange premilennial dispensationalists and other niche groups? I don't know enough to post, but as I understand it's a mainline view in Protestantism.

>>261557

>Protestant

>satanic Freemason

Pick one

>implying Freemasons are satanists

This is some euro tier ignorance here

>>261557

>pulling the Word of God out of people's hands and calling them heretics for wanting to understand scriptures on a personal level

>I'm the one who's codemning people to hell

>>260246

This.

Satan's counterfeit church persecuted and killed millions of Christians during the medieval ages.

The Protestant Reformation brought back pure Biblical Christianity.

Catholicism is full of pagan and occult/gnostic elements.

It was common knowledge in those times that the Papacy was the antichrist.

>>261925

This too. Although some Protestant branches are pure heresy (Puritans are racist and materialistic, and Pentecostal churches get people paranoid about possessions and involve this unbiblical and morbid angel tongue), promoting Bible translations, refusing clergies and abandoning all the Pagan elements of Catholicism and Orthodoxy was definitely a good idea.

>>261667

why don't you go out on the road with your human billboard psychotic heretic

>>261662

common knowledge that the Freemasons that you think about when you say Freemasons are controlled by Satanists once again showing Protestants are Protestants because of American public education.

>>261575

oh you mean like the King of heaven? oh sorry didn't mean to offend your American Protestantism sensibilities,, the president of heaven elected by the states of dog heaven and human heaven.. You are seriously arguing that if someone makes a video game with a Canon the author cannot add to the Canon because it is not in the videogame that he made or make a sequel that is Canon. Keep protesting that church of Christ though I'm sure you'll end up places.

>>262168

Catholicism is the continuation of the ancient Babylonian mystery religion.

The Papacy literally fits all the descriptions of the Antichrist in Revelation.

Jesus warned us about them.

>>262246

>Bible describes papacy as antichrist

>"I-it's just a coincidence!"

Nicolaitians get out.