/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>260812

argument from motion secures proof of god to me. hell, if anything, atheism is a mentally ill position that ignores some of the more obvious aspects of existence.

the real kicker: God can be real all he wants…doesn't prove Christianity for shit.

God existing is something which I can't understand how an educated person can doubt. Not just the nice and elegant arguments for God (though some of those I believe to be undoubted). But the concept of so many things only work because it presupposes an eternal, maximal, prime, transcendental, good, and personal (that is, interested in you) God.

The thing that I don't have nearly as knock down is the reality of the Gospel. While I have my own reasons for believing in the testimony of the Gospels (and the epistles), not all of which are entirely empirical in nature, I do understand the sudden doubt that can wash over someone.

After reading Descartes, I have no idea how anyone could ever have an existential crisis. Since even recognizing you exist presupposes God. Many people know the cliff notes, but don't understand the implications. That the first thing you can know is that you exist, but buried inside of that is the recognition of necessity of God. Which implies that the first thing you can know is actually not that you exist, but that God is working on you.

If you are losing your faith in God, I just call that ignorant. Go and read the greats of philosophy or theology. Many people along different avenues have shown the necessity of God. So if you are a rationalist (like me) who trust his ability to form logical constructs almost more than any other part for being certain on something, there is plenty there. If you are someone who trust his ability to derive information from his senses, there are people for that too.

But losing your faith in Christ? The best advice I ever got: pray on it. Read scripture.

>>260812

In chrisitianity God is a personal God, and quite a omnipotent one. So its more like you "find Him" or what have ya.

For learning the ropes i recommend you read something like brothers karamazov, cs lewis, and thomas merton

And watch this nigge

https://youtu.be/Sk0el9nH6Q4

God bless

As many have said, there are plenty of arguments to solidify your faith in a general "God", but faith in Christ is harder.

I believe due to the historical evidence, others experiences of Christ (Such as Paul on the road to Damascus, Aquinas hearing Christ's voice, etc.) that the biblical god is the true god.

It also helps that Christianity is one of the only falsifiable religions. In fact, on many occasions, the bible asks you to try and prove it false, whilst other religions are based on blind faith.

The Marian apparitions (La Salette, Lourdes and Fatima) are my reminders.

>>260826

>Fatima

>Not satan

>>260836

Why is Fatima of Satan? And if so, why isn't La Salette? And what about Akita?

Can't relate. I've never doubted. My existential dread would more be fear of damnation. I don't understand someone leaning toward there being no God. Look around. Things exists. Had to come from somewhere. Watch William Lane Craig videos or something if you're so autistic about having to contain all of the INFINITE in your own head before you can be "certain".

>>260846

The Fatima apparitions taught things contradictory to the bible, therefore the devil. Most other apparitions have only done things to push people into Christianity, or to benefit the Christian cause in some manner, therefore, not the devil.

>>260812

I was in the same boat about 2 months ago, i can't be sure but i can have faith in the lord that he is there. ever since then I feel better now not being a slave to the vices of sin.

>>260866

Can you be more specific? In what way has Fatima not urged people to convert, and in what way does it not benefit the Christian cause? And as I said, what sets it apart from other apparitions in the same theme?

This is important to me, because I'm coming from atheism and I'm really struggling to find faith.

>>260868

Ignore him, he's full of shit

>>260868

The most damning quote is this: "I (Mary) will never leave you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God (p.26)." from Lucia Speaks on The Message of Fatima.

Its encouraging the practice of idolatry.

This should strengthen your faith because evidence of Satan is in fact evidence of God.

>>260872

If that's the most "damning" you can come up with, I think I can safely ignore your claim.

OP here, I wasn't trying to start anything, I just was terrified that death would be just like before birth. I've been Christian all my life and devout too, I just never really felt Gods existence in any significant way.

>>260846

because it's a sinful and adulterous generation that needs signs and wonders, but the only sign for the son of man is the sign of Jonah.

I don't think Marian apparitions are the sign of Jonah.

>>260877

>because it's a sinful and adulterous generation that needs signs and wonders,

That makes sense. If an apparition came and said everything was hunky-dory I'd immediately assume it's of the devil.

>but the only sign for the son of man is the sign of Jonah.

But isn't that passage referring specifically to those scribes and Pharisees, and to the resurrection?

>I don't think Marian apparitions are the sign of Jonah.

What would that look like? Do you suppose there has ever been a modern-day sign of Jonah?

>>260874

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx Interesting perspective

>>260812

Please watch these, OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0iDNLxmWVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tyVdnIU9A

These explain why the Apostles behaved like they did and why does it prove that Christianity is the True Religion.

>>260875

If you think of God as the prime mover he's suddenly everywhere.

I'm not sure how thelogically correct this is, but every loving action is caused by the holy spirit.

Some definite final proof would not be good or desirable, since it would be slavery and we would have no choice.

>>260944

I think you are on strong theological grounds in several denominations.

At least I agree with you since I believe in the necessity of agent causation.

>>260875

Ther is not "like before birth". You can say the words "like before birth" but you don't have any idea of what you are talking about because you never had any "like before birth".

Your very consciousness is a reflection of God's existence. Because, after all, you are, technically and from a materialistic point of view, just a different structure of atoms, no different form a rock. You shouldn't exist.

>>260946

I know there wasn't a 'before birth'. I know I didn't exist in any meaningful way. My consciousness had a start, does it also have an end? Do human 'souls' or 'spirits' exist to persist beyond our brain?

I'm just a scared kid.

>>260947

Your consciousness isn't an structure of atoms. What you call death is just an arbitrary scientific term used to label a reestructuration of atoms.

>>260812

Interestingly, it was exactly existential dread that drove me to God. I found live completely meaningless and was wondering what do I do anything at all for? I was suicidal, depressed and visited /r9k/ regularly, but God gives me some comfort, some constant and assurance to hold on to.

>>260950

I'm sorry but I don't know what consciousness is or what it means. I don't even know if it's separate from the brain, or if it can exist without it. I'm terrified and maybe I'm not thinking straight but I cant keep staring into this abyss.

>>260936

Very enlightening. Thanks.

>>261003

You know what the brain is, and it has nothing to do with consciousness. A bunch of atoms in a certain structure, affected by forces. Nothing more. You don't seem to understand how cold the world is from a materialistic point of view. Technically, there is absolutely nothing.

>>261067

The problem is that description is self-defeating. All materialism is self-defeating in this same exact way. One cannot make the claim that the entirety of existence is material, because the claim itself is immaterial. If the claim is true, then it's false. And if it's false then it's false.

It's like the old joke about the person saying no one exist, "Then who's making the argument?"

>>261071

I know. That is why I make it explicit.

>>261107

Sorry, I phrased it like I was disagreeing with you, when I really just wanted to show consensus in agreement that materialism is utterly false by it's nature.