/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

1 Corinthians 3:10-15

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building on it. Each builder must choose with care how to build on it. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one that has been laid; that foundation is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—the work of each builder will become visible, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each has done. If what has been built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a reward. If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.

Matthew 12:31-32

>Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

Not much to say here except that certain writers (e.g. St. Augustine) argued this passage implied that some sins would be forgiven after death in purgatory.

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/matthew-commentary/cornelius-a-lapide-on-matthew/chapter-1/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5/chapter-6/chapter-7/chapter-8/chapter-9/chapter-10/chapter-11/chapter-12

Matthew 19:16-26

>And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith to him: All these I have kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me? Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me. And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered very much, saying: Who then can be saved? And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible.

How does this support purgatory? Jesus teaches that to receive eternal life (i.e. heaven) one should keep the commandments. Then he adds above that, that if one wishes to be perfect (i.e. not in need of purgatory) this man should give up his wealth to follow Christ like the twelve disciples. On the other hand, not responding to that call because of his worldly attachment to money doesn't mean that he cannot be saved. Such a man can be saved but not so easily (i.e. passing through purgatory). Note also that the word "hardly" above is being used in an archaic sense, and means with difficulty or scarcely rather than not at all.

I'm surprise this thread hasn't turn into a argument of the Ed Edd n eddy theory yet

Is it strange I think there could be a process of purgatory on philosophical grounds? I am mostly a non-denom but I actually expected a sort of purgatorial process just on formulating around the nature of sin as privation. By it's logic, the coming into virtue must too then be a movement towards God, which implies a process of refinement.

Which there is a sort of intuition about it. It's "painful" right now when you know you are wrong and have to accept that you were doing something wrong and changing your mind. You feel stupid or upset if it was something you really held onto (though less if it's a minor thing). It's not painful in the sense of the imagery "thrown in a lake of fire" (though I don't claim to know, so it could totally be exactly that), but it is perfectly reasons it seems to view the process as painful in that you exist for a while constantly having to change your mind on stuff that was wrong or sinful. Which, depending on how hard you accepted something or another, could be quite difficult (as we can see where, even physically, people who are faced with hard evidence contrary to their opinion either rationalize it instantly, or at times become physically ill having to accept it).

I guess my understanding of the rejection of it was because of the historical use the catholic church had used the idea for, and then the protestant reformation. So it sort of makes sense for it to become a point of deep contention.

>>261230

Jesus didn't make anything as clear as you think he did, bro. He's talking about things beyond our understanding.

You've just heard people talk about heaven and hell likely so many times in your life that it seems as clear as day.

Most people are even content reading their English bibles that don't distinguish at all between Sheol/Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus.

You're taking one church's teaching over another rather than taking the gospel over "the doctrine of men" in reality.