/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>261646

>Jesus was a well-meaning charlatan

a well-meaning charlatan is an oxymoron.

>with delusions of granduer

His "delusions of grandeur" weren't delusions. Even if he was a lier, he was grand enough for us to have to address this issue 2000 years later

>who blasphemes against the established Jewish religion,

the Jews were blasphemed by all polytheistic religions. and they were all blasphemed by the Jews.

>makes terroristic threats to destroy the temple

predicting it will be destroyed is not a terrorist threat. I don't think Greece will last another hundred years. that is not a threat but an economic observation.

>foments insurrection against the peaceful Roman occupation

lolololololol

>convincing his followers to stop paying tribute to the emperor

render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

>rather than divinely sacrificing himself, simply dies of his injuries on the cross

this is an ad hoc argument. it is used because it is convenient. there is no evidence to support it.

>the storm can be explained as a regular freak accident

this is an ad hoc argument. it is used because it is convenient. there is no evidence to support it.

>Jesus’s resurrection is a fanciful dream of his bereaved followers rather than an actual occurrence

this is an ad hoc argument. it is used because it is convenient. there is no evidence to support it.

watch inspiring philosophy's videos about the evidence of the resurrection for more info on the evidence of the resurrection

Complete and utter nonsense.

>>261646

One of the most convincing facts about christianity from a historical perspective is how crazy the situation of the apostles were. You have to understand, the apostles and a few others were the only ones to know of jesus's resurrection, and all the meaning that came with it. Now, all the 12 apostles except one died a martyrs death and they knew this would happen since the onset of their preaching. Think about it, why would a group of men who have just seen their leader slain in the most horrible way and shown to be the madman that he was (because he got slain, with no resurrection. Jesus was supposed to lead the people. If jesus was not divine he could not tell his disciples to chill and that it was cool cause he was going to be resurrected, they had to come up with that lie themselves) go and proclaim a crazy tale about him being ressurected at the certain risk of their lives? Like, they knew they were going to die, just read up on the accounts of how many times paul got arrested etc.

Look at all the whacky religions out there. Do you think the mormons wouldve kept going and proclaiming that one guy after seeing him defeated in a horrible death, and KNOW that they too were going to die? Sure, plenty of religious have done this but AFTER their religion had started. Makes sense the later martyrs did what they did, but the apostles? That would take for these 12 men to be all absolutely insane. Sure, its logically possible, but extremely unlikely. Think about how easily doubt can creep in your heads, think about the clear accounts from the apostles that they themselves werent perfect and had doubts about things at times. Sure, there are rednecks and mormons that ardently believe that the world was created 6000 years ago, and that are dumb and obstinant and would do the same as these men. But these men werent part of an established religion, with others to support them. They didnt already have an established belief. And they definitely didnt get taught from their granma and pappy that jesus was God and rose from the dead since they were in the crib, being brainwashed into a simplistic faith without doubt or question.

They ran away in fear when jesus was crucified, and hid knowing the authorities were looking for them, and that theyd get a similar death if they kept talking. I just cant see them making up this story and going around proclaiming it as much as possible till they inevitavly got caught and condemned to a gruesome death, knowing it would end this way. Its quite farfetched to think they were proclaiming a false idea they came up with amongst themselves. When you compare this to muhammed, or buddha, or whoever else you can see how its a lot easier to proclaim those just well learned mystics or false prophets. Jesus is another idea. He is highly polarizing. He's either a crazy man, completely evil blasphemer, with a following of some extremely insane and demented people (or maybe just humanly impossibly brave and loving to jesus's memory), or he is what he says he is.