/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

http://www.askacatholic.com/_WebPostings/Answers/2009_02FEB/2009FebIsSuicideAlwaysAMortalSin.cfm

>>261802

They're in Hell, aren't they? :DDD

>Not considering Sola Gratia for those kind of extreme situations

They're better than that, and you're better than that.

/thread

>>261827

They committed suicide.

>>261829

Death was a certainty, do you think that's not considered in God's Grace?

Not sure if troll or not.

Imagine a highly hypothetical and unlikely situation like this :

>Military

>In charge of a regiment of troops

>Ordered to rig explosives in an area, told the area is clear of civilian presence

>Find out it isn't

>Go against your directive and get the civilians out of the area

>Arrested / court marshaled (I don't know military lingo)

>Going to be executed

>Executioner knows you did the "right" thing, feels killing you would be murder

>You offer to take your own life, rather than leave someone else with the guilt of murder on their conscience

>Kill yourself

I'm pretty sure this is a movie that I can't remember the name of.

But in the above situation, you are -guranteed- to be killed, and you took your own life not out of fear, but out of selflessness to spare someone the guilt of killing you.

I personally don't think God would punish you for something you did to save someone else.

I don't believe the jumpers are in hell. I never liked Augustine's idea of suicide as totally unforgivable. I think ecentually the Catholics will allow funerary mass for those who an hero. Not to encourage it of course. NONE of us should kill ourselves.

From Medieval knights to King Saul, lots of people commit suicide in battle rather than face a slow death.

Remember Jesus was assured death on the cross. As long as he could hold himself up he would live and breathe. Yet he gave up the ghost and when the soldiers came to break legs, Jesus had already slumped and died. Was this suicide? I don't think so. He was doomed already.

Considering the motive of the attackers, the Christian ones could be considered martyred for their faith. We were targeted for being non-Muslim. Sure they mainly hit NY atheists, but Christians were killed as well.

>>261795

This made me think of assisted suicide with terminally ill people. I looked on Catholic forums to see what they said about 9/11 jumpers. Most said they weren't damned because they were dying either way and jumping just spared them from a painful slow roasting. BUT ISN'T THAT THE EXACT SAME TYPE OF SCENARIO AS A GUY WHO COMMITS SUICIDE BECAUSE HE'S DYING OF A PAINFUL TERMINAL ILLNESS? Either way, he's dying relatively soon. He can end it quickly and peacefully, or leave his illness to slowly, painfully destroy him. How is a ill person who commits suicide any different morally from a 9/11 jumper?

>>261852

>muslims did 9/11

nice meme

Moving away from smoke and intense heat is an innate biological reflex. They literally didn't have a choice about jumping, so they're not culpable.

I wouldn't really call running away from a fire suicide tbh.

>There's actually been highly-religious Christian families of the victims who have declined investigation of the remains that could have been their loved ones out of fear that they were Jumpers and the idea of their loved one's last actions being a 'sin' is traumatizing.

Need a source for this. I could see families declining such things just because they wouldn't want to know either way because what's the point.

> ID: 59666e

btw the power of Christ compels you