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Alex here, I'm back. I'll make a SAFemail ASAP for those who'd like to contact me. 1-8-16

File: 1458717857336.jpg (1.31 KB, 125x58, 125:58, 1368093930528s.jpg)

aef379 No.262082

>The problem of evil

Has anyone pointed out that the argument presupposes that God exist?

You can't have objective good/evil without God (in many ways you can't have a subjective good/evil either, since the terms themselves imply objectivity). So declaring something evil is meaningless unless you support it with God existing in the first place.

You can't even use it as an attack on the ultimate goodness of God since this would imply good/evil (which depends upon God) is somehow NOT contingent upon God. It would have to be separate. But then, since it presupposes God to define it, it cannot be greater than God because God is what it is subordinated to.

>pic related, how I feel when someone brings up "le problem of ebul"

60f2f8 No.262087

>>262082

A lot of people warp what it is to be good now, good is loosing it's meaning same with evil and being defined something differently. On that note would killing someone to protect another persons life be considered evil?

did you watch cfs new vid by any chance?


caf2a1 No.262116

That's basically the "Moral Argument" for God isn't it? In William Lane Craig's most recent video on his Youtube channel he said he thinks the Moral Argument is the most powerful argument of them all.


e405c0 No.262158

Reminder that there is no problem of evil

Christianity never says that evil won't happen. It says that there is evil in the world. If Christianity is true then we should expect evil to exist.


f451b8 No.262162

File: 1458758612035.jpg (73.62 KB, 850x400, 17:8, 1e61208.jpg)

The only 'problem of evil' that is actually an argument is pic related.


aef379 No.262174

>>262162

>able but not willing

Correct, agency is an important part of our existence.

>still falls into the same exact problem I already posted

You don't get good/evil without God.

>posting Epicurus ever


f451b8 No.262217

>>262174

The argument is that evil is incompatible with an omnipotent benevolent God


aef379 No.262219

>>262217

Yah, and the original post already covered why that doesn't work.


f451b8 No.262220

>>262219

>i'm too retarded to understand the word "benevolent"


aef379 No.262223

>>262220

>i'm too retarded to understand the word implies an objective norm, which relies upon God


f3f6c0 No.262242

ITT: People who need to look up Robert Barron answering this multiple times on youtube better than anyone else you're likely to hear.


e8a54f No.262277

>>262082

semantic obsolescence


10f810 No.262761

File: 1458969559791.jpg (1.82 MB, 2032x1200, 127:75, 638f8cfb0d7d068f1017205fd1….jpg)

Here's what I think.

God is love, and as existent things we occupy the word of God.

The interplay of things thereupon includes whatever exists, and evil exists.

Therefore evil exists by metaphysical necessity, which is to say that love -when understood in its ultimate sense- includes all evil.


a2ab6b No.262774

the point of the problem of evil is that it says, based on the assumptions of those who believe in a deity about good and evil, there is some discrepancy in the qualities you describe the deity to have and what is happening in reality


f451b8 No.263217

>>262223

Epicurus' argument assumes that evil does not exist, because of the paradox


ed83ff No.263222

The problem of evil doesn't presuppose that God exists. I'll explain why.

Problem of evil is a proof by contradiction.

Proofs by contradiction go like the following:

>Let's hypothesize {X}

>if {X} then {Y}

>but {Y} contradicts {X}

>so {X} can't be true

For example:

Let's hypothesize that 1+1= 1

1) 1+1 =1

2) 1 = 1+1

Adding (1) and (2)

3)1+1+1 = 1+1+1

Dividing both sides by 3

4) 1 = 1

If 1+1=1 then 1=1

But 1=1 contradicts 1+1 =1

So 1+1=1 can't be true

Now for the problem of evil:

Let's hypothesize that a God(who follows his own morality) exists

1) we assume that God's morality is the same as the Christian morality for convenience

2)by christian morality it is immoral to allow evil (by christian standards) to exist

3)there are instances of evil that God has allowed to exist

4) God is immoral by his own (christian) standards.

If {a god who follows his own (christian) morality exists} then {God is immoral by his own (christian) standards}

But {a god who follows his own (christian) morality exists} contradicts {God is immoral by his own (christian) standards}

So {a god who follows his own (christian) morality exists} is false

>God is by definition good

God has no motive to do anything besides his plan, and since his plan is the way things ought to be, then it is good. But that implies that we are incapable of evil, since it's all part of God's plan anyway. If a serial killer goes out murdering, God allowed it, so it is good.


aef379 No.263227

>>263222

The whole thing collapses here

>Let's hypothesize that a God(who follows his own morality) exists

You, again, subordinate God to morality, thus whatever it is is not God since it is subordinated.

This really not that hard.


17617b No.263248

>>262761

>includes all evil.

Evil by definition is rejection of good.

And because God = good and good = God, therefore evil = rejection of God.

God's love however encompasses all things, even those that reject Him, until the appointed time.


a1060e No.263322

>>263227

God's morality is part of God's will. To say that God is subordinate to his own will is ridiculous. It's akin to saying I'm subordinate to my personality. I mean, yes, I behave as my personality dictates, but to say that I'm under the control of my personality is pointless, because if I wasn't under the control of my personality, I wouldn't be anyone. I'd be a vegetable.

Besides, God has to be motivated by something. He does things. To do things requires a motive. Whether it's for God's sense of justice, or God's sense of love, or God's sense of zeal, there is a reason why he performs miracles. There is a reason why he kills his own son. Is it hard to understand that God's sense of morality could motivate him to act?


a1060e No.263327

>>263248

I'm a little confused about hell. If people who go to hell choose to be there, why do they weep and gnash their teeth?

Because they weren't fully aware of their choice? Seems like a dick move to make someone choose something that they're not fully aware of (like getting a drunk person to sign a contract)




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