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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Winner of the 77nd Attention-Hungry Games
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: eefcbc144b7fdc9⋯.jpg (1.87 MB, 1820x1346, 910:673, scan0119.jpg)

eb0383  No.791594

The Four Articles of Prague were more than reasonable and more Christian than the Catholic Church:

>(1) freedom of preaching;

>(2) communion in both kinds;

>(3) poverty of the clergy and expropriation of church property;

>(4) punishment of notorious sinners.

After the Hussites had crushed two crusader armies. thousands of knights strong, with nothing but peasants and wagons, Polish king Jogaila refused the Bohemian crown because he would have had to accept the Four Articles of Prague and this would've "angered the Pope".

Why are the Poles such CUCKS and left Bohemia to the Pope and his Kraut minions? Is there even a good theological reason for it, or just simple cuckoldry and betrayal?

0dc842  No.791604

>>791594

>why didn't Poland shatter Christianity into thousands of pieces like a good goy?

Because Poland knows Chirst's Church and doesn't want it to fall to hereitic scum.


ea32f5  No.791624

more Christian than the Catholic Church

>the church christ founded isn’t christian enough lemme do my own thing that will be more christian than the church christ founded

>left Bohemia

Bohemia was the one who turned their back on Christendom not the other way around.

>Is there even a good theological reason for it, or just simple cuckoldry and betrayal?

Maybe it’s the hussites that were going into apostasy and schism and the crown didn’t want to drag poland down into heresy.


eb0383  No.791626

>>791624

>Maybe it’s the hussites that were going into apostasy and schism and the crown didn’t want to drag poland down into heresy.

You don't seem to understand, the Four Articles of Prague were conditions under which the Hussites would've returned to the Roman Catholic Church. The Hussites didn't want to schism, they wanted the Catholic Church to embrace Christian principles.


ea32f5  No.791627

>>791626

>The Hussites didn't want to schism

Getting into holy wars with the church is a very weird way to prevent schism


eb0383  No.791628

>>791627

They were attacked by the papists, not the other way around.


eb0383  No.791629


ea32f5  No.791633

>>791628

>being this much of a historical revisionist


eb0383  No.791635

>>791633

Read the Wiki article. Hussites expelled the Catholics, Catholics came back with an army and started killing them. Hussites left the city, Catholics chased them and got rekt (Battle of Sudoměř). Then some politics happened and the Pope called a crusade against them.


99921b  No.791637

>>791594

What's even worse is that the C*tholic church and their inbred kings directly caused the extreme atheism in the Czech republic today with their forced "re-conversion".


99b5dd  No.791641

>>791635

>hussites dindu nuffin

>they just rioted and killed people they good bois on the way to church

>>791637

pretty sure it's the collapsing western culture that did it


ae89f9  No.791685

File: ac8e318cef75335⋯.png (121.96 KB, 498x594, 83:99, ac8e318cef75335119336bc00b….png)

Hus did not preach in Poland. Hus made an impression on Bohemians they followed him. After death of Hus it was bohemians who got angry. Poles and Slovaks did not give two sh*ts about Hus. Probably even Moravians did not care much.

Why do you think pope would accept "freedom of preaching" (freedom of speech wink wink) when the issue with Hus was that he spreaded Wycliffe's teaching? So the church should have submitted to watering down dogma and allowing heretics so few bohemians would be happy? lol

Why would you think the state should have the right to seize the church property? Church may have property and the clergy may still behave.

>punishment of notorious sinners.

>communion in both kinds;

nothing in particular against that.

Just here it is tricky again you see…Hus loved Wycliffe, who preached that communion is just symbolical, not literally the body of christ. They awnted "freedom of preaching" therefore there would be wycliffites therefore there would be protestantism 100 years earlier…therefore the Communion point seems weird anyway since the value of eucharist is downplayed.

>>791594

>let me just translate a complete Anglo heretic that denies eucharist and papal authority

>let me just distribute the heretical teaching throughout bohemia

>Let me just preach basically protestantism

>let me just this and that

>oy vey why are they after me?

>I am just a little reformer sticking to reforming the church.

The absolute state of Hussites. Protestant heretics. Making them into a cult and the secularism that came afterwards(democracy - bolshevism - democracy) caused the Czech Republic to be partially atheist country. Sad story.

>>791628

THE HUSSITES DINDU NUFFIN.

Sure man.

Hus dindu nuffin too. He just spreaded heresy all over the place.

>>791637

You probably never been to the country and know nothing about its history. lol.


aaccac  No.791705

>>791594

>(1) freedom of preaching;

Well, given the hussites, that would have been a blank check for heresy.

Otherwise it's kinda reasonable, barring 3.

t.orthodox


e76d9e  No.792432

>>791705

>In contrast to the popular perception that Hus was a proto-Protestant, some Eastern Orthodox Christians have argued that his theology was far closer to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Jan Hus is considered as a martyr saint in some jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church.[26] The Czechoslovak Hussite Church claims to trace its origin to Hus, to be "neo-Hussite", and contains mixed Eastern Orthodox and Protestant elements. Hus has forever left his impact as a man whose life, teachings and beliefs transformed the church.


ae89f9  No.792446

>>792432

> some Eastern Orthodox Christians have argued that his theology was far closer to Eastern Orthodox Christianity

Well I would like to see that. And I doubt Orthos go around translating wycliffe who is a basically protestant.

>is considered as a martyr saint in some jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church.

Of course because prots and orthos tend to team up in their hatred towards catholicism. Hus basically used sola scriptura before it was made cool by Luther. Making him a "saint" is preposterous. As making communist collaborants saints. But I am not surprised anymore.


639580  No.792462

File: 90b3f72217af226⋯.jpg (22.87 KB, 401x280, 401:280, p6orthodox.jpg)

>>792446

If you think about it, the East were the first prots as they protested agianst Jesus' decision to make St. Peter His chief steward of His church. So it really doesn't suprise me some in the East consider Hus a saint

Sigh, one of these days the East will come Home to Rome and Christendom will be united once more. Pray for them.


0bb8fc  No.792837

>>792462

>Sigh, one of these days the East will come Home to Rome and Christendom will be united once more. Pray for them.

We were occupied by the Turks for 500 years and we didn't submit to the Pope. Now with Russia we're doing better than ever, and you're doing worse than ever with all your kiddie diddling scandals, moral decay and plummeting birth rates. If anything, the West will become Orthodox.


00bdf0  No.792843

>>792837

>Now with Russia we're doing better than ever

I love how LARPers defend this "Holy Russia" reverie with bared teeth. There is a huge diference between a society that has degraded (the West) and one that never amounted to anything in the first place (Russia). The Putin worship in particular is really pathetic and is dependent on extremely recent events interpreted very selectively. None of these Putinites know where Russia is going to be in ten years and virtually all of them ignore the extent of Putin's own corruption and hypocrisy. They simply don't care, they hear about the Russian Orthodox Church and see staged he-man photos and snap into a fetal position. They want the feelgood assurance that if we only had the right leaders things would be okay. Take a closer look at Russia. They are still far below replacement rate for births, even with a recent uptick from suicidally low TFR, and rely on immigration to pick up the slack. The average Russian woman has an abortion during the normal course of life–down from a staggering three abortions per woman in the 90s. Russian women could fill an ocean with the blood running from between their legs. Imagine if every woman you knew had either had an abortion or was soon going to have one.

Until recently Russian women were trying at all costs to get Americans to marry them and take them to a country where they couldn't speak the language and had no friends because life in Russia was so bleak. You don't see a lot of traffic in the other direction. Russians are also massive alcoholics–alcoholism is so severe there that it's blamed for some of the population decline. As for crime, liberals and Europeans always tell us how violent America is due to various social justice deficiencies, but somehow Russia, with a much higher level of homogenity has double our homicide rate. But at least you can pray in the Orthodox Church that Putin nominally supports. It's easy for Westerners, particularly those who are disgruntled because their political ideas remain on the fringe, to make a few superficial comparisons with Russia and decide they're not so bad. The grass is always greener. I don't spare much criticism for American culture but I'm not about to pack my bags for Moscow–I'd sooner live in an American prison than in a Russian city.


5f42cd  No.792852

>>792837

>plummeting birth rates

Ortho countries aren't really doing fine in that regard.


5f42cd  No.792853

File: d14c6ef63585f95⋯.png (52.93 KB, 1027x485, 1027:485, ortho birthrates.PNG)

File: a6caf3b04dab4e6⋯.png (53.11 KB, 1015x482, 1015:482, cath birthrates.PNG)

>>792852

Both are worrisome, to be honest. In an unrelated note, I am quite surprised that anti-clerical France and Ireland have higher birthrates than Poland and the Mediterranean countries. Anyone know why is that?

Polite sage for doubleposting.


1f885d  No.792854

>>792853

Ireland will probably decrease, they just legalized infanticide. France is an anomaly… maybe because of all the immigrants?


e62352  No.793142

>>792837

>w with Russia we're doing better than ever

lol


e62352  No.793147

>>792462

Well I see now. This Hus business along with similar cases start to open my eyes in this respect. There is no consistency/ On one hand orthos will pick fun of prots that they are heretics, when it comes to it theywill claim that "Hus was basically orthodox" in belief.

Do not trust me? go click on the article in the source in wikipedia the annotation 26. There is an article with the most absurd revisionism one can come up with.

>Is this the invisible church unity? the peter's rock?


0bb8fc  No.793168

>>792843

>I'd sooner live in an American prison than in a Russian city.

Dumbest thing I've read on this board in a year.

>>793142

Orthodox countries have half the world's nukes. The last time Orthodoxy was this powerful was with Emperor Justinian. While I agree that there's still a lot of work to be done, the difference is that Orthodoxy is in principle capable of standing on it's own feet militarily and defending itself from threats (USA), thus it is also capable of having it's own culture free from foreign influence.

An Orthodox military-economic alliance across Eastern Europe with strong Orthodox values is a very real possibility, whereas a Catholic alliance isn't. You will always be a bitch of Judeo-Liberal culture.


e62352  No.793174

>>793168

yeah it would be nice if communism did not screw up the europe but what can you do.

>You will always be a bitch of Judeo-Liberal culture.

sure man. Because soviet union was in fact crypto christian right?

I am not saying Russia is necessarily bad…but you overestimate the trad position of her. And you underestimate Europe a lot.

>An Orthodox military-economic alliance across Eastern Europe with strong Orthodox values is a very real possibility

You mean ukraine, romania and bulgaria?

Because Hungary, Czech republic Slovakia and Poland are Catholic.

Baltic states are not exactly Orthodox either.


0bb8fc  No.793179

>>793174

>You mean ukraine, romania and bulgaria?

Russia, Romania, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria. Such an Orthodox Union would be a pretty comfy to live in, and half as big as the EU, with an even greater economic potential because of Russia's vast resources.


00bdf0  No.793181

>>793168

Russia is developing so it should be considered by the standards of what, Latin America? This may be news to you but it will always be "developing"–that's the euphemism for people who could not develop a modern, functioning society. And why don't we compare Russia to say, the rest of Asia? Yes, Japan, South Korea, or even China. China has a homicide rate 1/4 ours, meaning Russia's is almost ten times higher–a good indication of native criminality and Godlessness that will forestall any serious maturity. Their economy is entirely dependent on what they pump out of the ground and strip mine. And that makes them entirely dependent on Western economies–witness their deep recession in 2008, caused by our recession. If the Western economy really collapses, Russia will become a giant sinkhole of mass poverty and crumbling cities, that much is certain. It will make Chernobyl look like Disneyworld. If the Western economy doesn't collapse, then Russians will just keep selling off their non-renewable resources until they have nothing left, and then they'll become a giant sinkhole of mass poverty and crumbling cities.

That you believe Russia is on the ascent must be the product of puting too much faith in Putin. (Who himself is beholden to his crony oligarchs.) In 100 years there may not be much of a Russia left–their total fertility rate is estimated at 1.5 or 1.6, most likely just a rebound before it sinks back to 1.3 or 1.4, so like much of Europe it faces demographic crisis and increasing de-Russification by way of immigration to shore up the declining population. When you look at the fundamentals it is absurd to regard Russia's future as hopeful. Their only hope would be the country breaking up further because I do not think that Slavs can cope with that much territory. As for the criticism of the current warhawk USA, I wish you'd relax your grip on it. It's obviously a coping mechanism, a dog you can conveniently kick and blame for all our problems, which are more correctly assigned to various sociological and structural changes.

>>793174

Ignore him, he has the fanciful view of Slavs that many Westerners fall into. And let's not forget that most of Catholic Europe (Bavaria, Poland, Italy, Croatia, et all) genuinely have lower rates of premarital sex, abortion, and contraceptive use, whereas all the BASTE Orthodox countries have sky-high rates of abortion and homicide.


0bb8fc  No.793214

>>793181

>Russia will become a giant sinkhole of mass poverty and crumbling cities

>and then they'll become a giant sinkhole of mass poverty and crumbling cities.

>I do not think that Slavs can cope with that much territory.

>As for the criticism of the current warhawk USA, I wish you'd relax your grip on it.

Wow, just imagine being that much of an anti-Russia shill. One day Russia is hacking your elections and taking over your society, the next day it "can't handle territory". You people really need to make up your minds.

I for one have faith in Russia and the Orthodox people. They beat you in the space race with only 1/4 of your economy, remember? And they defeated the greatest Empires the world had ever seen, Mongol, French, Nazi. Meanwhile America is brimful with degeneracy and racemixing and it won't make it past its 300th birthday, despite having an ideal geography and unlimited resources.


0bb8fc  No.793224

File: 45c7644336d6456⋯.jpg (120.55 KB, 1032x780, 86:65, 43913983_585979645169185_2….jpg)

>>793181

>he has the fanciful view of Slavs that many Westerners fall into.

I am a Slav, and my people are not any less capable than Westerners, they just had less opportunity. I don't really care what you think, but pertaining to this discussion it is factually wrong.


7e0faf  No.793259

>>793224

>memes


0e0744  No.793480

>>793179

Serbia is not exactly eastern europe but whatever, neither is Greece.

>>793224

>I am a Slav, and my people are not any less capable than Westerners,

I am a Slav too. But I do not fancy the "holy russia" meme even though I tend to like russia. I am skeptic about memes. Also slavs have strong sides as well as their vices and weaknesses…as any other ethnic group.

>>793214

>Meanwhile America is brimful with degeneracy and racemixing and it won't make it past its 300th birthday, despite having an ideal geography and unlimited resources.

Americanism is a worse form of bolshevism. It is more subversive. The last thing I would stand for is America. But that does not make Russia holy.

We will also disagree about the "greatness of patriotic war". I do not think wwii helped Russia or Europe.

Historical autism aside. Russia does build mosques, they have civic nationalism over there, not real nationalism. Abortion is also rampant. I am in no way anti russian/anti slav but I would be more careful with outright claims of some "great eastern european alliance" First we are too divided right now to form such a thing. Second Russia has hard time coming to terms with ukraine in the first place since they will not let their stalinist myth at all costs. This apparently will not help the relationship in the long run. And no….not everything bewteen those two countries is a "western shill plot" Russia criminalizing historical revisionism of "muh patriotic war" and their attitude towards Ukrainians is not a western plot. It is a superiority complex of russians, some of them seem to think they have right to govern over a sovereign nation.

>You will always be a bitch of Judeo-Liberal culture.

After one hundred years of being bitch to jewish bolshevism, screwing up the europe and larping about it I do not think the first stone should be thrown from this direction.

No offense but you seem to fall into a false dichotomy of "russia or anti-russia" "putin or antiputin" "western or eastern".

The same materialism that governed Russia before "the revolution" governs the America. Bolshevism and capitalism are the two sides of the same materialist coin. And to be honest I do not see that much of a difference after the fall of the union except of some minor revival of faith.


9e4419  No.793498

>>793480

Yeah, no one is perfect…and we should admit our shortcomings and even the poisonous forms of denials which come from arrogance and spoiled pride in our people (which does not mean we should not be able to appreciate who we are and where we come from, but should put always God’s glory first)

t. Mediterranean guy


3fd745  No.793533

>>792853

I can speak for Poland, it's partly because of communist propaganda. Women were encouraged to get an education and a good job as part of the "both sexes are equal" myth.




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