/civ/ - CivCraft

Working on one currently

>>29754

I still have the coords to the cactus farm we were always talking about. There's a 1x2 or whatever tunnel in the rabbit hole that leads straight to a rail and goes about half way to the farm. When it gets to the rail, it's 3x3 the entire way to the farm. We just wanted to finish the rail, but never got around to it.

It also pops you out about 2k-3k away from Arran.

>>29754

That pink desert and nether island is co owned by JD and I

>>29819

We need to add labels

>>30018

Remove claims on the island in the top NE. HanTzu and I are selling this land by Ara's request.

>>30031

Isn't Atolia the one with just a circle for claims?

That was it according to Aerothers map.

Folters said there was a vault there too.

>>30035

To my knowledge, that circle was just to indicate where atolia was due to the map being pretty messed up in that area. I

>>30045

We're quite willing to negotiate, I'm sure. I'm mapping much of that area on journeymap right now.

>>30039

>Thanks, Lowtuff. Here's the issue with your red border: it claims a GIGANTIC territory for Atolia, a nation whose borders are not officially defined. I've been wandering out there charting our borders for a while now and I can tell you that you are claiming a large part of the jungle around Proletarska that is literally 3k from the 4 building settlement/farm that is Atolia. While we are certainly willing to negotiate borders, I think that the claims for Atolia you are supporting are absurd. Now, if that red border is actually claimed by Yoahtl or Wander, that would be different, but so far this does not appear to be the case.

[warning: i literally do not stop talking, fucking hell]

Gotta say man, we feel the exact same way about your claims in the region. I'm not going to dispute your legitimacy in the lands of the former RSSR, but here's things as they stand:

* Even when the RSSR was active, its claims were almost entirely unutilised and claimed mainly for breathing space and planned future expansion (which, mind, is the main reason why you've been getting involved there as of late). These claims were fairly contentious even when they were set up by Proletarskaya and involvement in the eastern rim of their claims by nations such as Blackcrown and Wander actually predates the claims entirely.

* Feel free to give corrections on any settlements I've not heard of, but to my knowledge there really isn't much to the Chanadian claims in the area beyond it being bequeathed to them by one(or more?) of the former soviet authorities (prole ones, mind, not even getting into the dispute over quito, old and messy as it is) and a desire for more land for homesteads, living space, new towns and such. I'm aware of expansionary efforts by Polynesia south of Cairdeas, very recent resumption of some activity in the 7k 7k area and possibly some interests in Braemar (does Cman still claim that? unsure) but aside from that it really is an awful lot of empty land. I don't really see why pushing all up to the fringes of towns such as Wander, Zixusa, Atolia and similar builds and land claims in the area makes sense. This isn't really helped by the fact that the river you (and the rssr?) want/ed as their eastern frontier doesn't actually exist (it's at least two separate rivers following vastly different spans) in the first place. (mind, no bones to pick there, mapping that corner of the map is just awful work for the most of it.) Hell, even as it was Churchill and LL were pushed up right next to foreign claims. Their lack of space to build has shaped a lot of diplomatic and infrastructure related fuss over the past two years, although the inactivity of the RSSR helped ensure no disputes would be sparked.

>>30070

* Considering that most of this movement by Chanada is based off of future plans and ambitions for settlements, the territory of the RSSR being pretty empty at the moment after all, keep in mind that the same does apply to us to a large extent. With so much jungle and snowy mountain type biomes in the U3P, hilly, forest and plains biomes remain pretty attractive to people who want to set up settlements and builds themselves. Some of these initiatives, such as that of blackcrown in the icy biome at the end of the Damme river, have been standing since near the start of the map. Even assuming that no one in the U3p had interests in those areas, I've no doubt that a nation such as yourself understands the desire for a buffer zone. (keep in mind the situation you've just had with Mir!) Considering the huge claims that you have already, you aren't really hard stretched for land, so I shouldn't see why the claims I've drawn more accurately representing the claims in the area we've upheld for so long should even be a point of contention.

While the U3P functions in a way that can be unconductive to clear, fast answers a lot of the time, our pretty significant precedence in the area and the large lack of currently present Chanadian activity in the area should mean that the issues with the border aren't as urgent as, say, the Mir situation. I'm fully with you on that we need to sort out a border, but this isn't something vital to your interests and while it is more important to us in the U3P, being right next door to us and all, it's something we're fairly relaxed about as well.

I know that the butting heads over this issue can't be helped and all, but all the same its a shame that the issue of these borders is so contentious at all. All the same, do keep ind mind how things are from our point of view. No doubt you understand that with your land claims the largest in the server, many people see yours as absurd.

>>30072

With our pretty reclusive nature (having period of isolation yourself in chanada, I'm sure you understand) I recognise that you've not had much contact with us before - but keep in mind that we have been here more or less since the start of the map, and the 'border' nations near your claims such as churchill, ll, wander and blackcrown are the main examples of this. I've been collecting maps of the ++ as well as making my own for over two years now and Blackcrown and Pella have had clear maps of the regions currently in contention for over a year before viridian was founded. We've gone through a good year and a half or so of the RSSR being utterly unpopulated and even before that activity in the region was very sporadic.

>>30074

With chanadians at various points falling out with U3P member states and vice versa (and the posts about annexing the deep ++ to connect the HKE with Chanada) you can see where a lot of concern about this would come from. Of course, we understand that shitposting from griefer wannabees and such is hardly to be taken as intention to invade, and pleasant experiences with being neighbors with Chan states such as over in kolima have proved that we can get along with you fine (aside from tension via the uncertain boundaries, these discussions have been friendly and nicely diplomatic). But still, 'scary LITERAL FASCISTS chanfolk are literally going to commit generalplan ost on our bucolic confederation!' yikes.

All the same, while we largely function with a lot of consensus building and discussion in the U3P, keep in mind I'm just a Concerned Citizen(tm), this isn't official united provinces policy or anything. Pretty sure I'm largely on point though, and this largely aligns with the opinions I've got from other U3Pers.

If you want a quicker response from me, btw, probably best to msg me on /u/lowtuff or post on the U3P subreddit.

>>30031

See this version of the map:

>>30031

The one you based yours on had he wrong boundaries for the blue area

>>30078

Meant as a reply to lowtuff

>>30079

God damnit I meant this is the correct map:

>>30018

Also we are holding onto RSSR claims because the former leader intends to return not too far from now.

>>30075

>>30075

>>30082

Again, not the official voice on this, but the extensions to 7k 7k claims move into U3P claims that predate 7k 7k's existence. Not to say that this is an inflexible point of contention, but this'll have to be part of the negotiations, see: the discussion over the far west of Little Latvia's peninsula.

>>30070

>>30072

>>30074

>>30075

So, I too realized the issue regarding rivers when I tried to follow it to the border only to end up in Dhingus enclave. We have already recognized Dhingus' biome as part of Blackcrowne and I'm in the process of getting actual claims from Atolia from Soccer. We are almost certainly willing to respect the settlements that Yoahtl has in the area (as far as I can tell, Zixuza is completely outside our claims, but on Folter's map it may be within the territories of Wander.)

>But still, 'scary LITERAL FASCISTS chanfolk are literally going to commit generalplan ost on our bucolic confederation!' yikes.

The whole point of nationalism is respecting other people's nationalism too. We have absolutely no interest in seizing land that others have used and inhabited for a long time. As I have said, we will deal with Atolia's claims once we actually know them, as we have dealt with Dhingus' biome. The issue is that your red line does not follow natural boundaries and cuts off a significant portion of uninhabited jungle that should belong to the RSSR. This is land that according to Folters is not claimed by Churchill, Yoahtl, or Wander, and is not used from what I have thus discovered.

Similarly, the red line above Tazmily's claims includes lands that are not claimed by ANY nation, which given the resource restrains of Tazmily it should be within reason for us to claim them. We have no interest in grabbing land that we won't or aren't using, but that is not the case. Between the reddit Nether Portal, Tazmily, and potentially returning RSSR, that is land that we will indeed be using.

>>30090

Then we shall negotiate for them. I was under the impression that the U3P only claimed land that was part of the constituent nations, much like how Chanada was before the dissolving of FAGT and the reforms to federal territory. We're extremely reasonable, but our issue is this: we are the most populous nation on the server by a wide margin and grow by the day. We use a significant portion of our land for new settlements or keep claims safe for people to avoid Holy Tree situations. Our claims are large, yes, but they have good reason to be.

>>30090

Not on any u3p map I have ever seen. Even the aerothers map from yesterday. I made sure not to touch LL, Churchill, or NDZ claims

>>30100

Same. I think it only fair that we are willing to relinquish our claims on Atolia and Dhingus' area, due to the U3P having settled them, but at the same time I also think it fair that our member state of Tazmily be able to claim the unclaimed land near to it.

>>30100

>>30101

My map is unfinished, the map you saw was what I had at the time and I'm still waiting for more responses on various issues. If Lowtuff believes that land is U3P and it is not on my map then that is because he has information I do not. There is discussion currently happening on a private sub about all of this, as Lowtuff said, this is a relaxed issue and we'll get the relevant information to you when it's compiled.

To say the least I was hesitant about posting my unfinished map on the public sub as I was worried you might mistake it for a finished one. That is my fault but for now a simple reminder that it is incomplete will have to do.

>>30118

Understood. However, the closest cities/claims (LL, Churchill, NDZ) definitely do not include that area so I'm not sure who else would.

>>30124

Keep in mind that we're not just dealing with the landclaims of each individual member, but of the union as a whole. In the same manner that we've never nailed down the _exact_ land claims for each U3P member state we've never properly worked out the idea of 'common land' and such for the U3P. That border I've shown between Atolia and Churchill, for example, has been around for well over a year now as a line for the southern extent of the UP but exactly how it related to the land claims of say, Churchill or so has never really been brought up and brought through with.

Apologies if this is a bit confusing, one of the downsides of the way we operate in the U3P is that such relaxed and friendly relations contribute to a lot of vague and ad-hoc ways of running things. It usually works fine but it often causes headaches with foreign diplomacy.

>>30135

Alright so do you actually have a problem with the blue region beyond your red line? It's pretty much just tundra

>>30141

It's not ideal (pretty sure there's some CH infrastructure there) but that's probably flexible. I'll try and get a more high definition map to hand for the area. _Might_ have some old maps of the U3P rail lines that'd be useful.

>>30135

can confirm what lowtuff said, many of my own mapping problems in the past have been caused by U3Pians getting on so well that they never resolved border disputes or formalised land claims.

>>30144

I'm getting a journeymap file ready soon to deal with all this ruckus. I'm mapping the entire region, so we can see exactly who has built what and where.

>>30146

I've an old (as in been working on it for a long time) journeymap file that has most of the quadrant covered, but I've never been able to upload it without crashing my computer. If it's recoverable then the information there should be reasonably up to date.

>>30031

>gensokyo stuff

lowtuff enough

>>30163

Shit did I forget to include Alcase Lorraine again.

>>30170

Maybe they should start building polders.

>>30248

Alright, speaking only for myself here but I've got no issue with the shaded land being Chanadian if none of the neighbouring nations object to it. (and there's not much reason why they would)

If that cocoa farm is owned by Wander or so, then making sure a small area around it remains east of the border would be prudent, but this depends both on whether it's near any U3P infrastructure and whether its owners would like to keep it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Yoahtl was interested in securing some of the jungle for themselves, but I've not heard anything from them about that thus far.

All in all this all seems about right, kudos for making that map! I looked around the area a bit yesterday and I've gotta admit I'm a bit unsure where Tazmilly actually is, though.

>>30255

The western border is off. Ive spoken with several Chanadian leaders on it and we agreed on this:

http://i.imgur.com/FgDxPjH.png

CKR is in brown.

>>30018

Could you lable all of the cities? like versailles akibara, spainland etc.?

>>30248

Probably right about Yoahtl there bg, as you might have guessed from some of my maps, basically all my info on Yoahtl was Hobbyist saying "Whatever isn't claimed is us". I believe Hobby no longer speaks for Yoahtl tho so you'll have to just take that up with Qua.

On Wander, I believe Dareloren is currently building a moat along that curve anyway, however as you said negotiations will probably be favourable to them anyway so i'm sure that's not an issue.

On atolia, I believe we're currently moving toward making them a protectorate within the U3P instead of full status, (basically how chanada is with RSSR)

In terms of the shaded land, if it truly is undeveloped then my personal suggestion would be to divide it roughly in half between chanada and the U3P as a measure of goodwill between us, for quick settlement of negotiation and a mutual recognition of one anothers need for breathing space. However that is dependent on whether Yoahtl have a claim on it at all or if they want to push it independently.

Also nice job on that map, will make it a little easier to correct Kovios (if you're not working on that yourself already)

>>29701

So I see a few issues on the map that nobody else has brought up.

1: Map legend is lacking individual color labels for what lay within Chanada.

While I know that green is polynesian turf, and red is probably tygrus, the rest are a mystery.

2: Mark city locations with black dots. This is our personal map, yes? We have no need to worry sonce Mir probaby does not know we are fullchan, and not halfchin.

>>30286

1. that will be done eventually

2. polynesia is orange

3. red is tygrus yeah.

4.Mir have posted on this board, so not like it matters what land we own---the map is publicly available so its not that personal.

>>30286

>green is /pol/

AYY LMAO, if only. :^)

>>30277

> You, of all people, should understand the pernicious nature of unnatural borders given what happened to that strip of land north of Volkstadt

The change in possession of the land in Kolimas buffer zone south of the wall was in part because your citizens didn't understand where they could not build and because Kolima excused Polynesia of the transgression as a gesture of goodwill. I am personally disinterested in your excuses as to why you could not keep your citizens informed of where they should not build but I'm sure as someone making maps you understand that is something you now have the power to do without relying on such excuses and the goodwill of your neighbours.

However in terms of natural borders you should know I share this idea. In the negotiation with Camokool I suggested that in fact Kolima retain the entire forest biome and the border run between the desert and forest however he denied this proposal and instead opted for my more generous previous one.

History lessons aside you should also understand that the U3P does not base its land claims around the way that Chanadas land claims operate and Chanada in fact has no say over whether or not we maintain common land. Please understand I say this not to be aggressive or confrontational but merely as a reminder.

Nonetheless, as much of the disputed land runs alongside Yoahtl it should be for Qua to claim first so I will wait till you negotiate that with him. This will also give our Secgen time to deliberate over the matter of common land.

I apologise on behalf of the U3P for the time it has taken to do much of this, many of the members are still working things out amongst themselves. I'm sure as someone who operates on behalf of a similarly complex organisation you can appreciate this.

>>30298

>History lessons aside you should also understand that the U3P does not base its land claims around the way that Chanadas land claims operate and Chanada in fact has no say over whether or not we maintain common land.

I get that they do it slightly differently and I'm not saying that we have any say in how you guys run your confederation. But that being said, if you guys are suddenly going to start claiming 'common land' over a preexisting claim of ours, I think we have a right to protest that.

>it should be for Qua to claim first

He doesn't. He is interested in purchasing or being granted some of said land, but he is not claiming it. In fact, the only person who is doing so is Lowtuff, but he can't actually say why.

>I'm sure as someone who operates on behalf of a similarly complex organisation you can appreciate this.

I can.

>>30298

> In the negotiation with Camokool I suggested that in fact Kolima retain the entire forest biome and the border run between the desert and forest however he denied this proposal and instead opted for my more generous previous one.

Quote from aerothers in that discussion:

"I see that pol has already made a small farm area on the forest biome, just so you don't have to keep asking you can have half for future devolopment"