/col/ - 8chan Colonies

We've talked about some basics of such a project. I think two main things are worth reposting here.

I'm guessing most of /pol/ isn't really very employable outside of cities (due to very specialized skills), so if everyone will just get a job independently then a somewhat developed urban area is necessary. Problem with that is that there's a correlation between population density and liberalism and multicultural demographics. Exception do exist, but the trend remains.

The other option is to not get day jobs, and instead buy houses in poor condition, repair them ourselves as much as we can and pay contractors to do the parts we can't, then sell them (or keep and rent either permanently, or through airbnb) and repeat. We'd essentially act as a real estate agency, and much of the financial thinking pertaining to real estate applies. For this, a smaller population center is possible, but it needs to have demand for real estate hence a developing economy and positive migration rate. This unfortunately rules out many excellent conservative enclaves and areas with cheap real estate, and also recall that positive migration = growing population density = increasing liberalism and heterogeneity.

Last option I've thought of is buying rural property in the middle of nowhere and [subsistence] farming, and possibly working remotely on the side (more exciting options include industry such as timber or mining, but are far more complicated to set up). Another possibility is to act as a resort for rich tourists who want to go hunting or fishing or whatever. This requires the most substantial investment up front, is least vulnerable to demographic problems, and also requires the best PR management. A while ago this thread came up along similar lines: http://8ch.net/meadhall/res/2317.html

So far the two of us on Tox have agreed (obviously if there are compelling arguments towards the contrary this can change) that the third option is most promising. For this, I've come up with the following rough steps the project should go through.

1. Make a ranked list of states based on objective statistics such as voting data, demographics, population density, gun law and property tax (average land price deliberately excluded because price can vary a lot within a state). Systematically pick the best one.

2. Look for cheap land on zillow and so on for a month or so. Consider seasonal trends. Gather quality price data.

3. Organize several meetups (will probably require substantial travel since most of us are scattered geographically) for interested parties to make introductions and establish commitment.

4. Purchase the land (either one person buys all, or several buy pieces) - not a huge commitment since it can be sold it later at a small loss if things don't work out.

5. Camp at the property for a few days, to, again, establish commitment and survey the area.

6. Begin building basic log cabins. This is the point where people start thinking about an exit strategy for their current commitments, such as jobs etc.

7. Once some accommodations suitable for short-mid term housing (ie. a few months) are in place, get water, electricity, internet and sewage connected.

8. Move to property permanently and set up permanent housing.

This way commitment is gradual, and by the time you come to the point where you have to go all in, you have a fair record of past performance to judge the odds of the project on. Up until step 3, all you really need to do is google and shitpost. Step 3 is basically a weekend vacation that you take a few hours out of to hang out with some /pol/acks. Step 4 is when the first serious commitment occurs: But land is easy to sell, so all you're really risking is the depreciation and misc transactional expenses (eg. tax, fees).

Step 6 is the commitment that cannot be easily undone. But by that point, you will be quite familiar with the other people who are in on it, and should be able to make a decision.

>>119

Oh, some more important factors to look at when considering which state: Number of winter months, average amount of sunlight per unit area per year, average soil fertility class.

For average price per acre by state, there are government statistics at http://www.usda.gov/nass/PUBS/TODAYRPT/land0815.pdf

Some example properties:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/0-Johnson-Flat-taylor-Rd-Pitsfield-ME-04967/2101331681_zpid/

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Newport-Rd-OFC-EAST-Newport-ME-04953/2101832191_zpid/

Also Carol Stream, Illinois has a shortage of unskilled labor according to one anon.

>>121

>>122

Still digging for more properties. IN doesn't seem very promising for farming land, but we could easily get a fairly decent building and try to set up shop in there. Hydroponics in the basement for food, production of things like furniture in the middle floors (we may need to "renovate" portions for ventilation of the workspaces and to ease the transfer of materials), and then living spaces on the upper floors.

>>119

I'm all for the idea, but you lost me at the log cabin part.

I really must urge you to go balls deep into something that can start producing cash flow right away. If you put all your money into log cabins and run into a problem with zoning, plumbing etc. you'll be hemorrhaging money until it's sorted.

What I would recommend instead, is to stick with the original plan of buying cash flow duplexes and triplexes, but take advantage of all the great financing out there like USDA $0-down rural residential loans, FHA 3% down residential loans, cheap money through private banks..

Hell, you could even get a 20% down together through a trust, gobble up 2 or 3 turnkey income properties and we all take shifts managing them on location.

There's a lot of opportunities out there, so don't choose the harder path. Once you have established income you can roll over equity into a big piece of property with natural springs and fishing lakes and RETIRE on them instead of breaking your back like a dirt farmer.

Are you guys into this?

There is a USDA loan for rural properties zoned as residential with $0 downpayment: http://eligibility.sc.egov.usda.gov/eligibility/welcomeAction.do

Also, for urban commercial properties meant to generate income: http://www.loopnet.com/

>>125

>I'm all for the idea, but you lost me at the log cabin part.

I'll agree that it's one of the weakest points. But assuming everything up to that point is accomplished, we will be looking at a whole bunch of land, reasonable but finite capital, non-zero expenses, and a bunch of people who are ready to go all in.

At that point, what's the best choice? Gradually start building accommodations which are easy to put up, don't really work as primary living housing, but are adequate for something like a vacation home? Or just go all in and build a fully-equipped housing complex that will be used permanently?

>I really must urge you to go balls deep into something that can start producing cash flow right away. If you put all your money into log cabins and run into a problem with zoning, plumbing etc. you'll be hemorrhaging money until it's sorted.

I imagined that while the log cabins (or some other quick and cheap temporary housing) are being put up, the participants are still working their normal jobs (perhaps taking frequent vacation to help with and oversee work). Once these are done, it's possible to move in and live in the cabins for several months while better housing is constructed full time. This is because to do serious constructions, we would have to live on site, and presumably we can't live in tents for several months.

Your suggestions makes a lot more sense. The only issue is whether we have the expertise to efficiently set up an income generating operation. Being able to retire and not be a dirt farmer otherwise be obligated to do hard work would of course be ideal.

Carol Stream has an aging populace, and once the boomers living there die/ move, houses will start opening up like mad.

Other places to look is southern Illinois

>>125

>lost me at the log cabin

You ever been in a log cabin? Shit's comfy as fuck. As it is, I'm gonna start looking into properties in more suburban areas to see what may be promising. Suggested locations? Besides Carol Stream, IL. I'm already looking there for something that may be suitable.

>>128

We could do the log buildings for temporary/orientation housing, and then build everything else while we live out of those temporarily. Granted, to each their own, since I would love a little log cabin.

And as far as dirt farming for income, we can generate income by doing logging and lumber processing. Sell the excess that we don't use to a local hardware store, or just trade it with them for insulation, double-pane windows, wiring, electrical panels, and everything else we need.

>>131

Looking now. Thanks.

>>128

>At that point, what's the best choice?

I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Yes, if we have a bunch of able bodied men already integrated there, then we'd have all the manpower and capital needed to do either.

Personally, I'm hot on cash flow properties. Like a Duplex or Triplex grandfathered in with the zoning board for multifamily residential. Fix it up and stick some families in it, instant cash flow.

If you want to go the log cabin route and use it for Airbnb and get it zoned bed and breakfast/commercial then more power to us! We can make that work and the SBA loans, grants and hookups to investors are even bigger than real estate loans. Government loves that shit.

>I imagined that while the log cabins (or some other quick and cheap temporary housing) are being put up, the participants are still working their normal jobs (perhaps taking frequent vacation to help with and oversee work).

This works too. Instead of buying up existing real estate, start a new development on a piece of land. Land is the one thing they're not making any more of so just holding it would be good. Just make sure you know what you have. For instance, if half the land turns out to be protected as a sanctuary area with the EPA and doesn't allow new construction, then you're boned.

Play it smart, but you can't go wrong with real estate. If it's land you're after, also consider looking up forclosure and tax auctions or tax options (later is more for turning a profit).

>>132

boutique farming works in this area I'm about 100 mi SSE of Carol Stream

I'm currently starting a hops farm

>>132

boutique farming works in this area I'm about 100 mi SSE of Carol Stream

I'm currently starting a hops farm

I know I'm kind of pushing Carol stream, but I am because white children are becoming a minority here, and because Glendale heights next door is full of illegals waiting to fly in here when the older people start dying off.

>>136

It's understandable that you want to save your home, we do too.

At this point, it's coming down to pricing.

Also consider Kane county, Illinois

>>137

That's the hard part. We'll do what we can I guess

>>140

Lewison's not bad, but we'd need a spot innawoods.

>>140

>$130k will get you a 6 to 8 unit complex that needs TLC and will generate around $3000-$4000/month in income after mortgage and taxes (assuming 20%) down.

Not too bad. But at 3.5k monthly that's 42k annual. That's a PE of 3.1 - traditionally, in the stock market (considered mid-high risk) PE of 10-12 is considered good, 13-16 is average, 17-20 is poor and 20+ is a shit stock. Granted, today the SP500 is 20 as well due to bubble, that's another matter.

Anyway, that seems like an extremely low price for that income. The obvious conclusion is that either you've really lucked out and found an amazing deal, or there is some hidden cost that makes the price several times higher (doubt it, even if you shell out 300k for renovations PE is still an amazing 10.2) or more likely the income lower. If we assume the average stock market performance, for 130k you should expect to make 8.67k annual or $720 monthly - that's after property tax but before income tax.

How do you go from 3.5k to 720? Possibly low occupancy, delinquent tenants and legal costs they generate, various recurring expenses. Also, note that stocks are much riskier than real estate, so the market expects higher returns. I believe real estate as a whole is expected to turn out 2-3% ROI annual, which corresponds to PE 30-50, meaning that the number you give are 10 times better.

How are the demographics in Lewiston? I see it has 65k pop, are people moving in or out? How's the economy? How's the real estate market? (BTW I've had some success finding out these things by just talking to real estate agents, and when it's time to make the deal more detailed market research can be done)

At $3-4k for 6-8 I guess you're assuming $500 rent per unit. From casually searching the Maine craigslist for "Lewiston" this seems like a reasonable estimate.

2BR apt for $650: http://maine.craigslist.org/apa/5278654679.html

2BR for $675: http://maine.craigslist.org/apa/5286909764.html

Person looking for 1 BR for $500-600: http://maine.craigslist.org/hou/5281044009.html

1 BR for $600 ("near mall"): http://maine.craigslist.org/apa/5257769622.html

According to http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=United+States&city=Lewiston%2C+ME 1BRs in city centre are $600 and outside $500, 3 BRs are $800-850.

All things considered seems like a good deal. I wonder if there is a catch.

I live in a major, economically active city and here ~400 sqft studios near city centre go for $200-250k, rent is usually $750-850/mo (there's usually additional expenses like large application fees, recurring fixed payments such as trash, parking fees etc that effectively inflate rent by 10-20%). In comparison, Maine sounds amazing! So thanks for posting regardless. Got a link to a page for this property?

>>142

I think the catch is that it's a flood zone. That's why I hesitated to link to the property because it's next to a river and the flood insurance might be several thousands of dollars a year, which would be like a second mortgage. However, I'll keep looking at the rest of maine.

https://www.redfin.com/ME/Lewiston/37-Davis-St-04240/home/100190606

As for demographic, it's 88% white (TOP LEL) and, I shit you not, underwent some bantu "refugee relocation" where the residents protested and a "white nationalist" organization came to demonstrate. Maybe, considering it's history, it'd be best to steer clear anyway.

Also, that's a good comparison to the stock market. Real estate is usually measured in GRM (gross rent multiple) or cap rate, but those you take with a grain of salt anyway. The big deal with RE is income tax depreciation deductions, low taxes and good occupancy.