Compounds/CLOP interaction

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Compounds/CLOP interaction M!NtyResTtto 08/24/15 (Mon) 01:42:48 No.3811

I know this is almost entirely in my own benefit at the moment as one of the six people who are playing, but I think there should be more direct interaction between the two games.

In the early days of Compounds, players who ascended from CLOP with a bunch of stuff started out very well.

Now that the games are completely separate, Compounds is a ghost land, and there's no reason to migrate from CLOP on over.

I'm just saying there should be more easy ways to interact. (At the moment, I'd go specifically with the T3 elements as that is simple enough for people to acquire with the current taxes, and most people can't take the two~three month slog to get to T6)

It would be a rather nice boon to use Hope or Joy to do small things that aren't game breaking, like negate rebels, spy on Clop countries, read internal information on terrestrial alliances.

With the T4 materials people could send temporary alicorn defenses (1 tick of space alicorns at a high cost), create raw energy, or the like. Make it a one way transaction converting the Compounds control of energy and emotion into a quantifiable action in the CLOP world.

T5 and Harmony could alter the world of CLOP. Shift production of types of farms world wide up and down, cause disasters and world wide boons.

Combining elements to achieve affects would be fun and add variety to the Compound formulas. Mixing Harmony, Theft, and Magic could reduce Gem Mine production by 1.

Anyone could change the production back, but it would alter the game in ways that could be interesting and spreadsheet breaking.

And parasprite invasions.

>CLOPAdmin!cLoPONYr0c 08/24/15 (Mon) 07:05:15 No.3812

Considering all of this.

Anonymous 08/24/15 (Mon) 07:09:02 No.3813

>>3812

Please don't, nobody wants to have to play compounds to stay competitive in clop.

Anonymous 08/24/15 (Mon) 09:17:27 No.3814

>>3813

I second this sentiment, especially with regard to the T5 ideas. The spreadsheets ARE the game.

You want people to play your game, give it a win condition that's always followed by a reset. That's called a goal. It gives people a reason to play. If the game is nihilistic by design, you're only going to attract nihilistic players (and idealistic players whose are so mentally ill that they think that playing an essentially pointless game in a certain way counts as fighting for their ideals).

M!NtyResTtto 08/24/15 (Mon) 12:25:49 No.3815

File: 1440419149772.jpg (30.26 KB, 350x350, 1:1, 950ae55015c035578b6d251a56….jpg)

>>3813

>Please don't, nobody wants to have to play compounds to stay competitive in clop.

That's almost like it wasn't fighting backwards up a hill to ascend in the first place.

As it is now, there's no interaction and population is pretty stable at 40 active people in CLOP and ~6 active people in Compounds.

There's nothing to do in Compounds besides watch numbers increment upwards because war is stupid, and there's little to do in CLOP that isn't market manipulation and self destructive war.

Compounds could and should represent magic crazy shit as we've got alicorn magic tech, no reason not to use it, and finite control over basic emotions.

Dropping your Sat to 0 by flooding your country with Sadness and Corruption? That seems like it shouldn't be impossible if expensive.

Sowing rebellion? Shouldn't be that hard.

Stopping rebellious thought? Sounds like the kind of thing a group of transspecies demigods would do for giggles.

And disasters were awesome in their own terrible way. Positive disasters were nice actually.

If everything Compounds could do was temporary, 24-72 hours or so, it might not affect things too badly really.

Anonymous 08/24/15 (Mon) 16:26:30 No.3816

>>3813

3erd

The rest of us should not need to play compounds just because your board Minty.

Tyrannis!Umbra9D7oU 08/25/15 (Tue) 01:38:24 No.3817

>>3813

Already said this to you personally Minty, but I should at least say I agree with this sentiment in public.

Dark Vessel (New trip :3)!.9LUNAFtWM 08/25/15 (Tue) 13:15:23 No.3818

>>3817

Agreed.

Dark Vessel (New trip :3)!.9LUNAFtWM 08/25/15 (Tue) 13:16:21 No.3819

>>3817

However, i'll suggest that if you DO go through with this, you restart compounds.

Schatten[FC / PI] 08/26/15 (Wed) 20:34:53 No.3821

I'm with Minty here: some interaction could influence both games positively.

To reduce immediate impact and the hurdle that represents the higher tiers of compounds, the things we Alicorns could do could initially be limited to stuff that's possible with T3. That's not long to reach, and if indeed people start playing Compounds, could be expanded.

If the boni/mali are small enough to not be completely OP, players could still opt out of Compounds, and not lose as much. But at least it could pay off to make friends with the players in Compounds so they can help you out in >CLOP. Social dynamics FTW! Or, if you want to compete, well, alliance mechanics in Compounds encourage teamwork. Make one and overthrow Minty!

M!NtyResTtto 08/26/15 (Wed) 23:15:58 No.3822

>>3819

>if you DO go through with this, you restart compounds.

Well, if we're going for full and fun restart; it would be good to reduce the cost of Uplift Member.

It was feasible under the older complement mechanic, but with the new equation and taxes 2500 of a T3 element is just too tough to hit accurately. We were completely wrong and it strangles the game even more.

>>3821

>Make one and overthrow Minty!

Overthrow what? The only way to overthrow anyone is for them to make a mistake.

Then it's not like its a position shift, everything just changes to two people sucking instead of just one.

There needs to be a mechanic to steal production levels. More importantly, there needs to be more things to do with compounds.

64 sounds like a lot of options, but outside of void (which has three related uses) there's not a whole lot to do in the game that isn't make numbers get bigger.

>CLOPAdmin!cLoPONYr0c 08/26/15 (Wed) 23:38:56 No.3823

After further thought, I'm going to do some, but not all, of the things here.

Rebel neutralization, spying, even alicorn creation, I think would be good. Maybe even raising satisfaction (so some Compounds lord can directly boost some newbie). The energy is.. an interesting idea, and I was thinking about affecting SE/NLR relations directly- but I might hold off on that, as the oil market's bad enough right now.

Controlling game variables the way that Compounds variables are controlled, on the other hoof, is out. Not going to do it. The players were warned for Compounds; >CLOP players aren't ready to handle that.

>CLOPAdmin!cLoPONYr0c 08/26/15 (Wed) 23:49:01 No.3825

File: 1440632941302.png (158.48 KB, 887x901, 887:901, derpicorn.png)

>>3822

>2500 of a T3 element is just too tough to hit accurately

I had larger alliances in mind.

Schatten[FC / PI] 08/27/15 (Thu) 02:50:35 No.3827

>>3823

>affecting SE/NLR relations directly

Thematically, it wouldn't make sense to increase superpower rep, anyway. (They're disliking nations for even trying to research Alicornification, much less trying to actually pull it off.)

There could be a cost in superpower rep for buffs, though. As in, the SE notices an "insolent mortal" nation being benefitted by another godlike being, and hating it for it. Again, would thematically make sense; if the game balance can handle it is another question entirely. At the least, it could be another balancing factor (apart from the compounds cost of things), if that should be necessary.

>>3822

>Then it's not like its a position shift, everything just changes to two people sucking instead of just one.

It was meant more as an ecouragement for people to start playing. And "overthrow" would be "getting as much punch as other, bigger players, to get a similar advantage". After all, a small alliance of active people, who all can get to T3 fast, will outstrip even your production.

M!NtyResTtto 08/27/15 (Thu) 03:05:22 No.3828

File: 1440644722681.png (1.6 MB, 1600x808, 200:101, age_of_the_alicorn_by_flam….png)

>>3825

>I had larger alliances in mind.

See, when I started I hoped to bring in a small group of active players which would be more defensible and able to take advantage of other players lax behavior.

But the game is so micromanagement heavy, there's no such thing as a casual player. CLOP is more casual for lots of reasons.

Reducing the cap made it even more player intensive.

Back when it was proposed that there would be no stasis, and player had more degrees of control, so it made sense. But as it is there's very little automation, and it's hard to sell people on to the game.

Remember back when there was going to be automatic production lines? When you could set up member's excess production to drain into the larger alliance pool? That would really help keep inactive players both adding to the game, while leaving them open for attack from the outside.

Large alliances only work when the gameplay is noob level easy. The more complex your learning curve and the more violent the punishment for failure, the harder it is to get people to start playing.

As it is right now, Compounds is a minigame for players whose nations have ascended last game, who are willing to deal with abstract numbers in a purely autistic fashion with the goal of watching numbers get bigger until that starts hurting them also.

>>3827

> As in, the SE notices an "insolent mortal" nation being benefitted by another godlike being, and hating it for it.

That makes sense both ways. No one actually achieved ascension without pissing those two off, so it's completely fair that getting assistance from space would attack your super power relations.

> a small alliance of active people, who all can get to T3 fast, will outstrip even your production.

That's what I'm hoping. It's also why I wanted to add things for people to do in T1-T3, because spending a huge chunk of your first week at T3, and the first month or so at T4, it's nice to see some pay off.

And Clop side, T0 nations can create alicorns, I don't really see why we would cut off ties planet side.

… Well, the NLR/SE bombing them back to the stone age could be a factor.

Anonymous 08/27/15 (Thu) 06:16:54 No.3830

>>3823

>After further thought, I'm going to do some, but not all, of the things here.

>Rebel neutralization, spying, even alicorn creation, I think would be good. Maybe even raising satisfaction (so some Compounds lord can directly boost some newbie). The energy is.. an interesting idea, and I was thinking about affecting SE/NLR relations directly- but I might hold off on that, as the oil market's bad enough right now.

>Controlling game variables the way that Compounds variables are controlled, on the other hoof, is out. Not going to do it. The players were warned for Compounds; >CLOP players aren't ready to handle that.

This kills the clop.

Anonymous 08/27/15 (Thu) 09:36:34 No.3831

>>3830

Not if we kill all the compounds players it doesn't~

M!NtyResTtto 08/27/15 (Thu) 05:35:37 No.3832

File: 1440653737893.png (4.34 KB, 398x134, 199:67, Production.PNG)

>>3831

>Not if we kill all the compounds players it doesn't~

Hahahaha, like you think killing would stop us.

A full server wipe and reset would be no different than any large scale miscalculation. The only difference would be that it would hit all six players who actually play.

And in the potential that there might be something to do in exchange for starting over, that would be worth it.

Seriously. One mistake, like taking a day off at the wrong time causes such catastrophic failure. It's why Progress Engine and Friendship For All pulled out. Koło Gospodyń Wiejskich Bździszewo and Hippagne got punched in the gut by the system multiple times.

The system change to force stasis if you're gone for 3 days is more to protect your account should you ever decide to come back, because there's no protections should you lose contact or abandon ship.

Server wipe is fine. I just want to see a little bit more magic in what I can do. If I want to spend optimism and growth in other ways, that would be fine.

Cause right now, my cap is at 980, and my production is dedicated to making Harmony, which is the only element that I need. Which I need in 6k bursts to change costs, 10k bursts if I want to change element positions, and about 2k if I want to increase my production.

The tax rate disagrees with just making the element straight up however.

Schatten[FC / PI] 08/27/15 (Thu) 18:36:47 No.3833

>>3832

I comletely agree that compounds need more uses. 64 are a lot, but still it feels like there's not many uses for stuff, although objectively, there are.

And I'm hoping there's no wipe. It takes a long time of babysitting to get to T5/T6, and I hope I don't have to do that again. If that influences decisions, I'll once again start maintaining offers of Magic and Optimism on the Philippy/Free Resource system, and I'll try to Uplift anyone who wants to try leading an alliance of his own.

I see why a wipe could be necessary, so I'm not that strongly opposed; however, I'd like to keep my production level and not work through that chore of building up again. <.<

Anonymous 08/28/15 (Fri) 22:08:49 No.3835

Well, what happened?

>CLOPAdmin!cLoPONYr0c 08/29/15 (Sat) 01:46:49 No.3836

>>3835

Implementation of satisfaction raising and spying tonight. I promise.

M!NtyResTtto 08/29/15 (Sat) 04:22:03 No.3837

>>3835

>>3836

Wow, I'd given up on this really.

That will make saving people much less annoying really.

TyHachi 08/29/15 (Sat) 05:22:01 No.3838

>>3836