/cyber/ - Cyberpunk & Science Fiction

>participating in a fundamentally broken system of mob rule and popularity

Fuck democracy. Unless someone is running with the intent of abolishing the State, you're only giving your consent to another round of rich smooth-talker fucks manipulating the normie masses into voting for whoever ultimately has the most marketability.

Anarchy or bust. No compromises.

>>22159

This kind of black-or-white thinking isn't really healthy.

>>22151

Honestly, it's a mess at this point. I want someone who isn't red or blue to win. Considering that's unlikely, I'm unsure at this point. I need more research.

Although I'm less edgy about it, I agree with the above poster that democracy is a easily manipulated popularity contest on a national level. A single person is intelligent and makes rational decisions, 300 million people as a unit are easily led on.

I don't vote because it just legitimizes the system. I find a more effective way to improve society is to just be the change you want to see. A non voting person that teaches other people on how to not get fucked over is much more of a benefit to society than a voting asshole.

>>22151

I too will vote Sanders. It's a shame he won't win.

>>22159

move to Somalia if you want some anarchy in your life.

>>22178

Words have meaning. Every time you repeat that he has no chance to win, you make that reality more likely by swaying people's minds.

>>22249

whatever. I;m not going to become an evangelist, and I have no illusions about the reality of the situation. But Bernie gets my vote.

>>22178

I had honestly forgotten that people still unironically say "move to Somalia". Cheers, anon.

>>22159

This though^

Sanders for sure. We know that Hillary will basically just end up being 4 more years of Obama, and while Sanders will probably be the same, we can at least look at his history, and say that he does sincerely want to change things. But really, we'll probably end up with a Republican this time. Every sitting president is the "worst president ever", and by the time 2016 rolls around, people aren't going to remember how much of an asshole Bush was.

Maybe I'll vote Green this time…

>>22164

Not voting just makes you look apathetic. Spoil your ballot if you hate everyone, they do count those, and it does send a message.

Why don't you all just vote for the Technocratic party? like seriously it's what you all want, right?

Also, before anyone says they need a candidate for you to do that, I know. But you guys should start backing up some smaller parties.

>>22297

because "technocrat" is codeword for shazbot upper class marxist hipster with dyed hair that knows what's best for you.

>>22159

This.

>>22178

>Somalia

>anarchist

>>22151

Sanders appears to be the best solution; I've found he isn't very gun neutral as people have led us to believe however. I may vote for the recently formed Transhumanist Party out of principle, but their only candidate is a randian cunt that is more focused on selling his shitty book than actually trying to make a difference.

>>22159

We aren't at that point where abolishing the State would be sustainable and you know that; however at this rate if the United States doesn't balkanize in our lifetime, I don't know what would be the right solution.

>>22297

Technocracy won't bring about a more /cyber/ world; in fact the country doesn't need it because the status quo is doing a fine job itself.

>>22164

>>22254

>>22332

You're using a misunderstanding of political concepts to justify your indifference to a virtuous system that is crumbling beneath your feet.

not Clinton

>>22413

You are indeed right. If we abolished the State today, aside from the vast majority of people either pissing themselves or looting shit, the megacorps would take over pretty quickly and we'd be in a real cyberpunk dystopia right quick.

But seeing as working within the system is pretty much a hopeless endeavor, the only political action I can put myself behind is working towards wresting away power from the people in power - either by educating normies and creating more enemies of the State, or organizing to disrupt State and capitalist activities, or maybe at some point, if there are enough people supporting it, trying to establish some sort of free anarchist territory.

The Free State Project seems promising, even if it seems to have ayncrap/libertarian leanings.

Also I had no idea there was a Transhumanist Party.

>>22428

>the only political action I can put myself behind is working towards wresting away power from the people in power

I'm with you on the means for disruption; in the end that's really all the average person can do most of the time.

>The Free State Project seems promising, even if it seems to have ayncrap/libertarian leanings.

The more your know: http://shiresociety.com/ exists almost solely as a means for members of the FSP to avoid taxes; pretty funny seeing at how secular most its members appear to be.

>Also I had no idea there was a Transhumanist Party.

I suppose that's for the better. It's been made under something called "Transpolitica" which is a multinational organization of sorts consisting of the world's transhumanist political parties; that is at least that's what it's trying to be (I did say it was recent). The American Transhumanist Party is headed by Zoltan Istvan along with his two lapdogs, Hank Pellissier and Chris Armstrong. Were you to mention these names in Grinder/Biohacker circles you'd likely start a flamewar. I hear the UK Transhumanist Party is more well off given their circumstances, though.

>>22332

>anywhere else

>anarchist

every anarchist state was squished within months and had terrible living conditions.

Not burger but Rand Paul or less ideally Dr Ben Carson

>>22481

>Rand Paul

No.

>Ben Carson

Who the fuck is that?

whoever's running for the american pirate party obviously.

but the retarded american voting system presents the masses a false dilemma of republicans versus democrats and they gladly fall for it because the world is so simple in black and white.

>>22457

>anarchist state

Sounds like you really understand anarchism well and I will therefore listen to your opinions.

>>22516

You know full well he meant anarchist society.

>>22519

I mean I probably could have inferred it, but it doesn't really make much sense to infer since it's so obviously false to anyone even briefly familiar with history.

bump!

>>22151

Sernie Blanders obviously. I may like cyberpunk fiction but *actual* cyberpunk, there everything is fucked beyond recognition, is something I don't want.

Vote for the Green Party.

Richard Stallman agrees with this message.

>>28433

Try actually reading their platform. They want to abolish prison sentences for women. Basically is socjus the party at this point.

RMS ain't a politician.

Rand Paul, fucking obviously.

>inb4 bernie sanders shills

>>22159

Stop using the term 'mob rule' until you know what it means.

>>28392

Then why are you voting for bernie sanders?

Bernie Sanders will make cyberpunk real. :^)

>>22492

>No.

Wow, good argument.

I'm totally going to be a cool guy and vote bernie instead of rand like you, anon.

>>28447

>this level of strawmanning

>>28465

>dat webm

>scale-free graphs galore

The message is right at least. I have no doubt that in a future of automation socialism is the *only* stable economic system. And since Americans are so irrationally against it… I might want to move to Germany or something in my later years.

>>22151

Harry Braun perhaps.

>>22151

I'm probably going to vote for Rand Paul.

>>22159

You cannot have a country with 300 million people live successfully in Anarchy, let alone the fact that asking for a quick transition to such a state of affairs is completely unrealistic in our current political climate.

>>28488

The welfare state is not the same thing as socialism. One is social ownership of the means of production. The other is taking brouzouf from productive citizens and giving it to non-productive citizens. Think about that before you decided to jump ship for Europe.

>>28515

as time goes on it will transition to true socialism, but that's just my opinion.

In any case, I'll take a welfare state over a sinking ship any day.

>>22151

The problem with democracy is the problem with any kind of leadership–namely, the kind of person who shouldn't be in power is exactly the kind of person who will figure out how to game the system. A good leader makes decisions for the good of everyone around him, knowing that this leads to a better world for all; a bad leader makes decisions to stomp on anyone who's a potential threat to his authority, which doesn't lead to anything good for anyone else, but does tend to knock other presidential hopefuls out of the ring.

On top of that, people who actually have potential to be great leaders often avoid leadership altogether because they understand just how hard it is to be a good leader.

What America needs is something drastic–something that can't possibly be solved by the fools who run for presidency now. See, there's a connection that runs through the best leaders in history: they were forced onto the chair.

What do Washington and Joan of Arc have in common? One was a great leader of countries, the other a great leader of armies, but both were put into the leader's role by everything else coming apart.

If things get really bad, chances are we'll find a new Washington, but we can't really afford that, can we?

The question, then, is this: How do we find the one person who is best to lead, if the best leader is the guy who avoids leadership, and the worst leaders will quickly learn to fake it?

>>28537

I'd like to talk to you about this after some event beyond your control knocks you into the gutter. See if you still think that way.

>>22159

you are a retard if you think american democracy is "mob rule". there is no mob involved. the victor is decided ahead of time. republics have always been this way. if the people could change something they wouldnt be allowed to vote.

>>28560

If you're self-sufficient and take responsibility for your actions you should have an in-and-out plan for whenever shit happens. You're also just as likely to be fucked over by the same gov't you expect to provide a safety net for you as the normal fluctuations of human interaction.

In this world you are truly the only one whose well-being depends on your well-being. Excepting some fallible bureaucracy to take care of you when you fall is absolutely absurd, especially when you consider that you may be denied those services if you don't give up essential liberties or you happen to have an ideology that conflicts with that gov't.

>>28575

>actually believing libertarian rhetoric

tell me, were you "special needs" when you were in school anon?

>>28572

>The Constitution is just an old piece of paper.

Opinion discarded.

>>28600

If the Consitution said you had to insert a giant iron rod up you rectum every weekend, would you do it?

>>28610

It does not.

>>28611

>If […] said

shazbot.

>>28612

The Constitution is about protecting your freedom, not about iron rods.

> what if maths said you are gay?

>>22164

>jus b urself XD

Wow, that's deep.

On a serious note though, I agree with your central premise. Democracy works beautifully when you're talking about dozens/hundreds of people, but then again so do most political systems at that level. Once you extrapolate it out to a country involving tens or even hundreds of millions of people, divided into countless subgroups by ethnicity, language, culture, religion (or lack thereof), political leaning, and socio-economic status, democracy becomes a less viable model. Who's to say a decision is the best decision, just because a majority of people believe it to be so? And keep in mind, most of these people are not particularly well-educated or well-informed about national policy or even how their government functions. Shit, there are millions of people who genuinely believe the fluctuations of a free-market economy are the President's doing. You want people like that deciding the economic policy you have to live under?

>>28558

SEVERELY UNDERRATED POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>28572

another Severely TRUE POST

>>28638

>>28639

no, and no.

>>28617

I'd rather do that than sit by and let other people elect even worse people.

>>28572

>TFW I'll probably vote for him

I don't even like Zoltans, the Engi are way better.

so is this a shill thread or is there a legit reason why someone would go to /cyber/ but not vote for the pirate party whenever he can?

or is this just data mining?

>>28569

>"Your characterization of a complex reality is retarted".

>"Here's my equally reductive and retarded characterization of a complex reality".

>>28614

Of course, if it gets casually disregarded on a daily basis it doesn't really change anything anyway.

>>28924

*but* if it…

>>28683

>>28684

>but not vote for the pirate party whenever he can

>whenever he can

No pirate party in the US, 0x005a2b07.

>>28944

That article is pretty stupid. It basically criticizes Sanders for being a smart politician.

Also, it's going to be funny watching the politicos try to muckrack him, his record is essentially clean. The only available line is "socialist", and that's nothing if he's allowed to respond.

>>28946

I didn't read the article but I think criticizing people for being good at politics is perfectly valid. The system is fucked.

>>28948

well why don't you want a good politician to represent you? I'd rather have someone who is willing to give his values a little leeway but at least gets them done, than someone who stands by his values like iron but has no idea how to kick the rest of the politicians into action.

>>28945

okay honestly you just through me through a loop, the KOTOR games were a highlight of my childhood. The first one had amazing plot but meh gameplay dynamic, vice versa for the second. (sorry for thread-irrelevant comment)

>>28949

>I'd rather have someone who is willing to give his values a little leeway but at least gets them done

That's Tsipras in a nutshell.

I'd rather have a Varoufakis, thank you.

not sure how the US system works but before you vote for the "lesser evil" make sure to check if your state has a pirate party candidate.

>>28465

>>28572

Automation reduces running costs for businesses. These savings are then spent elsewhere in the economy. This is how technological progress allows us to do more things: it makes the things we currently do cheaper, so we can then spend our time doing something else we want to do but previously couldn't.

This 'automation takes the jobs' thing is logic along the lines of "if you raise the minimum wage, everyone will keep their jobs and employers will just pay them more!". It only works in the total absence of any thinking. This is not to say that the obvious rebuttal is the end of the conversation, just that it's a hell of a lot more complicated than you think, and simplistic statements like "automation is going to take away all the jobs!" are the opposite of reality.

>>29001

I don't think there even is a pirate party in most of the US.

>>29006

Well I think the real root problem with the "automation takes jobs" tagline is that it centers on an idea that will very soon become outdated – the idea that it is important to have a job.

Think about it. If every factory worker got replaced by a robot, it's unavoidable that there would be fallout. They wouldn't have the skills to compete in an automated economy, they lose all their brouzouf, and they stop feeding the big consumerist machine. Nobody wants that, but it's going to happen in a decade or two whether we want to or not. And we're going to have to deal with the consequences.

The only good outcome that's possible is that we move on from capitalism to a sort of pseudo-capitalism, where all the necessities are dirt cheap and almost everyone has a job in the tech industries.

the american presidency is a joke and has been since nixon. i hope bernie sanders wins the election, he SEEMS as the most viable candidate. im not in any way convinced that he'll change the country significantly, i just want to see if he'll turn to shit like every candidate does when they become president.

ｅｘｃｉｔｉｎｇ！  ｗｈｏ  ｗｉｌｌ  ｂｅ  ｔｈｅ  ｎｅｘｔ  ｌｏｂｂｙｉｓｔ  ｐｕｐｐｅｔ？  ｒｅｐｕｂｌｉｃａｎ  ｏｒ  ｄｅｍｏｃｒａｔ？  ｃｏｋｅ  ｏｒ  ｐｅｐｓｉ？ 

>>29006

>implying raising minimum wage will result in a reduction of jobs

If you're getting paid minimum wage it means that your employer couldn't figure out how to get rid of your position completely, so they hire somebody with no skills to do it for the minimum amount of brouzouf legally possible.

If their business could operate without that position, they would have removed it already. Raising minimum wage (within reason) will not reduce the number of minimum wage positions.

If you want to increase the number of low-skill jobs available to americans living the US, try making the minimum wage for foriegn workers twice the minimum wage of US citizens/residents.

>>29070

I do support socialism, and think it could work in the US, but I'd rather not vote for a liberal like Bernie to put it in place. Otherwise, it probably would turn out, like you said, more distorted than China's "socialism", where we put the needs of minorities over those of the majority out of empathy.

We have social and fiscal issues that need to be fixed first. I'd absolutely love to vote for Bernie after someone like Rand has fixed our issues with government attempts at tyranny like the patriot act.

>>29074

>I do support socialism

>We have social and fiscal issues that need to be fixed first.

>like the patriot act.

holy shit seriously what the fuck is wrong with the US?

doesn't your country have a single party that unites everything that is good in one place?

germany has the left, the pirate party and if you're more into satire then there's Die PARTEI and in some parts also the Pogo-Anarchists.

each of those parties would fix all of the most pressing issues and we can vote based on how much we trust each party.

are you telling me every single US party is evil and you all have to choose between privacy, social justice and economic justice?

>>29070

I gotta say, the US isn't a good place for socialism except in the loosest sense of the word. But I'd rather have that than Laissez-faire capitlism, which appears to be where we're going now.

>>29152

really it's more about the politicians than the parties. The Republican party ranges from the stupidly far right to the middle, and the Democratic party ranges from the right to the moderate left. Hell, it's a struggle for the party leaders to get their parties to vote together on anything.

>>29152

Those parties will remove your shitfucked 'hatespeech' laws, right?

Fuck, I'd kill my self if those ever passed here.

>>22151

>Bernie Sanders… represents everything that we stand for

Sorry, I'm not big on Affirmative Action. Nor am I a filthy fucking commie who wants to take brouzouf from the haves and throw it at any have-not, no matter what their situation is. Fuck's sake, the man is anti-gun, how the fuck can you claim to be cyberpunk in any way, shape, or form and want to ban guns?

He's filthy statist scum, and should be ignored.

>not voting for the trump so that the cyberpunk world you envisioned will become a reality faster. Stay pleb new age hippy Sanderites.

>>29274

Look, obviously cyberpunk is cool and all that, but the characters in cyberpunk live marginal lives in tiny apartments because they have no choice. You can live that kind of life now, if you so choose, but please don't help to bring about a reality in which it's the only option. That's crazy.

>>22178

>I too will vote Sanders. It's a shame he won't win.

Did you say that just like they paid you to?

>>29278

Pffft, shazbot posers pls.

>not voting in the worst candidate every time

It's almsot like you don't even want a rebellion.

>>28507

>You cannot have a country with 300 million people live successfully in Anarchy

I don't think you know what anarchism means.

>let alone the fact that asking for a quick transition to such a state of affairs is completely unrealistic

That's true, it just have to be a gradual change.

The only person who isn't payed off, because he used to be the one to pay off candidates, is Donald Trump.

Trump will be great for America, but terrible for the rest of the world. He'll make America into a the vicious and clumsy giant I want it to be again.

Vote for Trump if you really don't give a shit about the rest of the world.

>Inb4 he's only running for self-interest

He's lost brouzouf by running, the media constantly bashes him, and he knows his economics.

He'll fuck over other countries for ours, America is home base for him, and that's what matters to me.

Also, if you're an adult and you're a socialist you need to put down the games and fiction books for a while.

>>29329

The only chance of rebellion in the United States if from the south still, and that's not a very good chance even then.

Electing trump would likely pacify desires of rebellion among southerners.

>>29394

I realized just today that Trump is so rich that he can't be bought. Nobody's going to sway him politically, because he doesn't care about "campaign contributions". Gibson liked the concept of "big brouzouf", and how it made things happen. Trump IS big brouzouf. Monsanto isn't going to persuade him to change his views on GMOs, whatever they are, because he doesn't have to care.

If he gets elected, it's going to be very interesting.

He also appears to be pretty firmly pro-gun, so I'm happy about that, too.

>>29408

Because actually believing in socialism at this stage in the human experience, after all the history we have to learn from, requires child-like reasoning.

Socialism can never work, not unless the population has genes which support such cooperation. A sociopath will always come into a position of power, it's inevitable.

The way reality works is that countries rise and fall, they compete, produce, eventually die, and split or merge into new ones; the truth is that from a up-down perspective that this itself is a larger-scale form of capitalistic beliefs. Socialism believes itself to be a perfect system, and that's why it's not a problem for most socialists that society would sacrifice some productivity in exchange for the system, but that's false and even socialist societies fall (and often sooner rather than later).

Look at Sweden and Norway, countries that practice a light form of socialism, and tell me what recent innovations, what recent groundbreaking advancements, and what driving philosophy those countries and the people within them have. The answer is, is that they have none of those currently.

America is the land of the free, the land of liberty, and most of all the land of the ego, and our own egos are a drive that cannot be extinguished easily. The desire to self improve, self-educate, and to just overall better our own position in life drives us to discover new things, make new things, and dominate economically.

The philosophy of selfish desire as a positive thing isn't something that started with this country, but it's what made this country so strong. American nationalism is unique in that it's whole source is in our country's promise of freedom, liberty, and guaranteed benefits for the self.

>Trump knows jack shit. He inherited his brouzouf and went into business, that does not mean abything about his knowledge… which, from what I've seen of him, is below average.

You're saying absolutely nothing with that, literally a hollow statement. You can't provide any examples or details as to why he'd make a bad president economically, whereas I easily point to his success. Trump likely received both a better childhood education, and college education than either of us.

Also, he inherited about 40million brouzouf, and his current networth is 4billion. To say he inherited his entire wealth is a blatant falsehood. That improvement is like me going from 200k a year to making a millions.

Your inability to actually point out anything negative about him factually just contributes to my belief that socialists aren't realists by any stretch of the imagination.

>>29436

> so it's more like going $10k to $1m.

I took the raw ratio at first when making that comparison, but the truth is that it's much easier to invest and expand with 40m than it is with 10k. With 10k all the brouzouf is going to just living.

with 100k annually I can realistically put 30-50k aside for economic growth without sacrificing my living standards too drastically. Even if I wanted to go all Cyberpunk-RP for a year and live off only noodles or something, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 10k is too small of an earning to do anything. Someone who makes only 10k a year should be seeking better employment rather than seeking to invest.

>>29430

Norway is currently the country with the highest living standard.

>>29430

>Because actually believing in socialism at this stage in the human experience, after all the history we have to learn from, requires child-like reasoning.

your explanaion for that was basically to point to Sweden and Norway and say, "look how much they suck" when in fact they have the best public education and best living standards in the world, along with very strong stable economies. All the history points to is the fact that democratic socialism is an excellent form of government.

>Trump got better education than us hurr durr

being good at business is not like being good at economics. Running a business is not like running a country. He doesn't even really have an economic policy that I know of, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was more tax cuts for his billionaire friends.

>>29447

>>29468

>your explanaion for that was basically to point to Sweden and Norway and say, "look how much they suck"

Yes it is, because it's true.

Standard of living is bullshit nowadays, countries get points for "free" health care, the difference between classes, the availability of housing, the "quality" of education, and many other things which are either biased or based entirely on subjective judgment. Things like the availability of housing and class difference is given a boost when the government pays and houses bums. You might as well be using a "Happiness" index instead, it's just as valid as that crap.

Public education is a terrible idea, and you're a disgusting shazbot for endorsing it in anyway shape or form. Through public education kids are barraged with propaganda and mentally stunted, and usually have their education heavily influenced by the leading party through that propaganda.

If you think the education system we have here is chalk full of propaganda (which I hope you do, or your worse off that I thought), then the propaganda in those countries would make you choke.

>being good at business is not like being good at economics

Yes actually it does, unless you believe in a controlled economy or you're a retarded Keynesian, and if you are, your opinion is 100% invalid and this discussion is over. We're about to experience virtually the biggest economic crash in history, and it's entirely the result of the short-sightedness of Keynesian economics.

>>29491

>Public education is a terrible idea, and you're a disgusting shazbot for endorsing it in anyway shape or form.

ah, so it comes out, you're one of those libtards.

Anyway, your country rating system seems pretty arbitrary and not based on numbers or facts at all.

>Yes actually it does, unless you believe in a controlled economy or you're a retarded Keynesian

it really doesn't. I mean, you could argue that knowing economics makes you a better businessman, but it's not a requirement and the economic skills are not what are reinforced through the career. Businessmen know how to make themselves look good and talk people into the deal, economists know how the theory and how to apply it.

The only way to win is not to play.

>>29491

>Standard of living is bullshit nowadays, countries get points for "free" health care, the difference between classes, the availability of housing, the "quality" of education, and many other things which are either biased or based entirely on subjective judgment

>Public education is a terrible idea, and you're a disgusting shazbot for endorsing it in anyway shape or form.

Holy shit, I am getting triggered.

>>29512

>Standard of living is bullshit nowadays

>Holy shit, I am getting triggered.

So much this.

Can I ask what is not bullshit these days?

>>29547

A #safespace for the #whiterace. :^)

bump.

>>29466

This. Since he doesn't have to depend on other's giving him brouzouf to run, he can avoid all the shaft stroking that goes along with politics (catering to target groups for votes, or serving the interests of rich lawyer friends, etc). He did pretty good in the debate a few days ago, and I'm a fan of his take no shit attitude; especially since Obama has been a massive shit eater in office, more concerned about his approval ratings rather than actually getting things done. Maybe the idea that people should have jobs is a little too conservative for this board, but if everyone is continued to be encouraged to sit around and not learn a skill or improve themselves and is told that they're a special snowflake, we're fucked. Everyone (maybe) on this board has an above average knowledge of technology or is in some way politically aware and know where they stand; most people, in burgerland, do not. People base their opinions on 'muh handouts', 'muh tolerance, I don't want anyone to hate me', etc. Those are the lowest common denominators targeted by modern liberals, along with college students who are so complacent in not having financial responsibility and riding out living off their parents for as long as possible. Sure, I'm an engineering student still mostly dependent on my parents, but I plan on getting an internship, or a job when I'm finished. Every time I talk to someone who is a 'special snowflake' type, they say 'ew, so much math, thats so hard, I'm not a math person'. Well motherfucker I wasn't born knowing all kinds of calculus and such, but I'm not a little bitch who avoids everything they think is hard because it 'isn't them'. I love how Trump rustles the jimmies of all these political slimes because he believes in action. If people complain that he has too much brouzouf, maybe they should go get their own. Do they have shitty tattoos and don't want to cut their hair? Thats fine, you can start your own company. Personally I'm tired of all the whining that people do these days, the only thing I complain about is nogf, not how I'm oppressed by people who got off their ass and did something as I sit and blame other people for my whining, saying because they have brouzouf they should give it to me, even though I've done nothing for them except grovel and live like mold.

>>22160

That's racist.

>>22164

>I don't vote because it just legitimizes the system. I find a more effective way to improve society is to just be the change you want to see.

Voting doesn't do jack shit anymore. Know what does? Making a bunch of noise. Just look at SOPA / PIPA. When that shit was firs proposed no one voted on it. It had bipartisan support. Everyone bitched about it loud enough that it didn't happen.

That's how politics works, via activism. That's the only power the public has left. They once had Jury Nullification (juries nullifying unjust laws by refusing to decide by them) but now Judges inform the jury of the law and ask if they'll decide by it as it stands, then filter out anyone who won't uphold the corrupt law. One judge asked us potential jurors to raise our hands if we would decide by a law as explained and only 2 people raised their hands, so he got pissy and shouted, "Well! I'm going to have to get a whole new batch of jurors then!?!" They keep doing that until they have enough jurors who won't nullify the corrupt law, thus removing the one check and balance the public had against the judicial branch.

All that's left now is activism… and that's why the police are being so heavily militarized. That's why riot squads roam NY city, looking for dissenting protests to put down.

They'd like to remove even the ability to protest, because it's the only thing left we can do that has any effect.

So, It's not enough to just "be the change you want to see", you have to get out there and convince others to also be that change too, and shit-stir like mad to make politicians afraid going against your group at the risk of very bad PR.

Fuck feminists, but at least they understand exactly how this shit is done.

>>30446

>I don't vote because it just legitimizes the system.

no it doesn't, that's fucking retarded. stop parotting big party propaganda.

even *IF* voting didn't change anything you should still give your vote to a party you support so people see they aren't alone.

and iceland and greece showed that unexpected parties can indeed suddenly win the elections and even fix shit if imperialist powers don't shut down their banks and threaten to let everyone starve if they don't get their way.

also idk how it is in the USA but here parties get brouzouf if they reach a certain percentage of votes.

>I find a more effective way to improve society is to just be the change you want to see.

^yeah, idiotic platitudes always bring the best change^ ← those are sarcastrophes

may i ask how many per cent of US citizens vote?

in europe we have so few voters that if all non-voters suddenly started voting for random parties that are not currently part of EU government then pretty much each of those random parties would enter the EU parliament and have about as many votes as the currently most powerful parties.

if non-voters concentrated on a few interesting parties then they could cause a change in government at any time.

this is why asshole shills keep telling people they should only ever vote if they want to keep things the way they are.

look at this and tell me you don't feel like a fucking idiot:

http://brouzouf.cnn.com/2015/08/05/news/economy/poor-people-voting-rights/

>>30505

they get the vote and wipe their asses with it, falsify mainstream news statistics and elect their chosen puppet master after brainwashing the dumb masses of the population with social engineering.

yet keep in mind that all the candidates are already chosen by them anyway.

I genuinely feel bad for Sanders right now. America has never needed his anti-crony capitalism stance so badly, yet at the same time, liberal politics have never been so toxic.

>"so, I'm looking at tackling corporate greed…"

>"BLACK LIVES MATTER APOLOGIZE FOR BEING WHITE YOU FUCKING RACIST"

>have to give up the stage because doing anything other than bending over at the sight of an angry minority is political suicide

I'm genuinely starting to think that COINTELPRO is involved to some degree, or at least a similar successor operation.

>>30745

It wouldn't surprise me if there are third party interests who have a hand in the proliferation of SJW politics - especially considering that they're reformist liberal classcucks who love corporations as long as they're "green"/"fair trade"/pander to their special snowflake gender or sexual identities. There's brouzouf to be had from these useful idiots.

bump.!

Trump won me over with that speech he gave in Birch Run. I'm fully aboard the Trump train. Make America great again.

>>30844

Why is it that I get this sneaking suspicion that the people who unironically support Trump are too young to remember just how much of a shitbag he's been over these past two decades?

>>30776

Full image please

>>28572

Fucking nice.

200% STANDING

Trump seems pretty based. Besides a couple of false comments (vaccines cause autism, global warming doesn't exist) he seems to align with my stance pretty well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016#Political_positions

>against Obamacare

>pro-life

>doesn't give a shit about gay marriage (leave it to the states)

>"opposes federally mandated Common Core standards"

>pro guns (but says no assault rifles)

>not fuaarking Clinton

>>30904

also, he doesn't seem like the kind of person to lie about shit in campaigns because he doesn't give a shit what people think.

on the other hand, for this exact reason he might change his positions once elected.

>>30912

not saying that common core isn't bad; it's just that his incentive for opposing it is not necessarily in the citizenry's best interests.

context

>really badly educated

>on cyberpunk board

please choose one.

>"pro-life"

you're trolling, right?

If Trump wins, we'll have a Jimmy Carter with the popularity of Reagan; if Clinton wins, we'll have a more secretive Margaret Thatcher.

I don't see how any of the perceived winners of the primaries will do us any good.

>>30915

I find it amusing that every one i've talked to about it have mocked it.

My university math teacher said that the guy who made that system is stupid and hates trees.

>>30915

Getting rid of common core means allowing States to manage their education system instead of it being controlled by the Federal. That's what seems more important to me.

>>31073

But.. I thought common core was actively developed by the states for federal; the problem resides in state legislature more than the feds themselves.

State education systems are monopolized enough as is; simply getting rid of common core isn't going to do anything on its own right.

>Rand Paul, baby.

Yes all the way.

>>31088

This literally sums up why i like trump.

They try to show him as this horrible person and he just owns up to it and jokes about it.

The fun part is that they don't know how to deal with that.

>>31338

Trump is a political buffoon but he was one of the few against tpp

>>30874

Who is she and why is she so hot?

>>31347

He saved our asses from a renewal of the patriot act. How is he not the most /cyb/ candidate of them all?

And, as much as I hate Ayn Rand, you know damn well capitalism is the direct economic form of anarchy.

>>31089

>winfag's pictures folder in the background

Daily reminder that Rand Paul uses GNU/Linux.

>>31354

In fairness, the second pic could just be two people with offbeat fashion tastes.

>>31419

Your post really reflects the prevailing attitude and way of thinking of the average Anarchist, that is, completely devoid of critical thinking and full of unfounded anger.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you are a loser is due to your own irrational attitude and stupidity?

>>31486

not that anon

>Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you are a loser is due to your own irrational attitude and stupidity?

Perhaps, but we will never know, precisely because since i don't live in anarchism i don't have the freedom i need to fail or succed, all i have is a path alredy set up for me like it or not, not much i can do about it.

>>31487

>precisely because since i don't live in anarchism i don't have the freedom i need to fail or succeed

That is completely untrue, I don't know how you define success, but if it is anything like having the means to be financially independent enough to meet life's basics needs of food and shelter and such then the United States is perfectly suitable to be successful. Hundreds of millions of people manage it in the united states, therefore it is unjustified to say that Americans don't have the freedom to succeed.

Besides, in Anarchism you are not completely free either, there are still other people with whom you will have to engage with and come to compromise with in order to live in peace, in other words, the fact that you don't live alone in an island means hat you will have to sacrifice freedom.

>>31508

Truly spoken like mommy's little rebel, way to go.

>fite da powah!

>>31504

>That is completely untrue

Not at all.

>but if it is anything like having the means to be financially independent enough to meet life's basics needs of food and shelter

Not really, by succedeing i mean living free and doing what you want in life whatever that might be, i and almost no one can do that in the current system, the current system has a pretty defined succes what you said and a pretty defined way to achieve it, it doesn't give a fuck weather i or anybody else wants it or not.

Working half of my life to be able to live the other is not success, at least not for me.

>in Anarchism you are not completely free either

>there are still other people with whom you will have to engage with and come to compromise with in order to live in peace

Well obviously, still more free than now, also i'd like to "come to compromise: with the people around me, instead of someone completely unrelated forcing himself on me.

>>31521 go back to reddit

>>31732

says the liberal cuckold wanabe Anarchist.

>>31735

>"anarchist liberals" belong to reddit, people who think america is a great place to live in belong on /cyber/

requesting to ban the shitposter.

can't click the report button because no javascript.

>>31737

>requesting to ban the shitposter.

Why don't you just down vote me pussy, lol.

>Ban freedom of speech

>I'm an anarchist!

Video.

>>31504

>>31521

>>31735

fuck. i already wondered why there are no shills on /cyber/ even though it is a relatively large board (there may be some forum sliding or advertising being done with all those consumerist threads but so far they didn't interact with serious threads).

i don't think i ever saw a board able to maintain the quality of discussions after they arrived. i will miss you, /cyber/, one of the last bastions against corruption. but i am also curious about where i will go next. will it be another board? chan? a meta-chan like overchan? a different piece of software like retroshare or gnunet?

i wish elections were like this, with so many good options to choose from that we need to throw coins to decide.

>>31737

>can't click the report button because no javascript.

>muh privacy

I really don't want to continue this ridiculous discussion but you are a JOKE and this is just too funny.

Trust me, once you grow up and you form part of society you will realize how ridiculous your Anarchist ideas are.

>>31752

hey redditor, i suggest you watch some john oliver.

in the last or previous week's episode he explains how freedom of speech works.

>>31753

>(there may be some forum sliding or advertising being done with all those consumerist threads but so far they didn't interact with serious threads).

Shilling what? What are you talking about, do I look like I'm trying to sell you something? Reason, logic, and critical thinking skills are free.

>i don't think i ever saw a board able to maintain the quality of discussions after they arrived. i will miss you, /cyber/

Cry bitch, cry!

>but i am also curious about where i will go

Back to reddit, obviously. Stop trying to manipulate the mods with sentimentalism, you are pathetic.

>I'm such a victim, poor me, I don't like peoples opinions!

>>31755

Why? According to you freedom of speech ends where you feeling begin:

>"anarchist liberals" belong to reddit, people who think america is a great place to live in belong on /cyber/

Makes strawman. I never said that nor implied it.

>requesting to ban the shitposter.

Asks for censorship.

Please.

oh and fuck cloudflare, seriously. this isn't funny anymore.

>>31762

Learn how to post, please.

>>31758

>inform yourself so let me tl;dr:

>while there is no law forbidding

Blah, blah, blah, I know where you are going with this, I realize you are not literally infringing on my right to freedom of speech you moron, that was just a way to insult your request to censor ideas which you don't like. The fact that you can't bear ideas which are contrary to yours, to the degree that you can't even bear to see them in the same place where you shitpost, shows what a hypocrite you are. I don't know if you are aware of this but Anarchist ideology is for open debate and exchange of ideas.

Also your picture doesn't even make sense in this context.

An anarchist… what a joke, I seriously doubt you have any idea what anarchism is.

>no, you have an oligarchy.

I'm not that anon, but this is just laughable, you are very young, I can tell. America as a democratic republic, ALL of congress, the president, mayors of state, sheriffs, all judges except for those in the supreme court, legislators, etc are elected by the people, the rest are appointed by those who were elected, all of whom have to follow the law of the land, all while working under supervision of other government entities which can check them. You cannot call the United States an oligarchy while it has free elections, a constitution, and checks and balances.

>all of these shazbots arguing about shit

>none of them are going to start the revolution

>>31756

>Reason, logic, and critical thinking skills are free.

And so's your fucking ideology.

>>32305

How about you volunteer and try not to immediately get v&.

>>32347

The trick would be to get enough support together before going full revolution that when I do go full revolution, it's hard to stop.

John Macafee is running so him.

>>33784

>voting for a joke candidate who created the "cyber party"

lel

Trump just came out with a beautifully comprehensive gun control platform including things like a nationwide concealed carry permit and federal-level legislation specifically protecting "assault weapons", so I'm leaning even more towards him, even though I'm hardly a fan of most of his other policies.

>>33786

>trump

Trump is with the Clintons. I don't trust him one bit. Rand Paul would be my choice if he wasn't a sellout.

ITT: edgy anarchists battle with lolberts, and neither of them are as relevant as Sanders

Trump. He'll either do what needs to be done or become a very cyberpunk capitalist CEO president.

Lessig is my first choice, but literally only people in the Free Culture and Free Software communities know who he is.

I'm going to do what I hear a lot of people say they are going to do, which is vote for Sanders but donate to the NRA. I agree with Sanders on everything but his views on guns.

I don't really like any of mainstream ones but Sanders may be the least bad of them so to speak, I'm liking this >>28572 guy more than Bernie though.

>>33992

Why do gun people want to be allowed to have assault rifles again?

>>33998

Jesus christ this lack for forethought.

>please please government please take my means of defending myself from you

electoral college

>>29491

I'm from Canada I can confirm the bit about public education. Every teacher here is a liberal/ndp cuck because the liberals and ndp (provincially) paid into the teachers. Now all they fucking do is tell the kids to vote anything but con.

Public education =/= public discourse.

>>34044

I'm not him but let me expand on the cancer that is owning a gun: america is in shit because they tried their little "right to bear arms" experiment. And it failed. America is a fucking joke to everyone outside of america. I bet even niggers in Africa are laughing at you while choking to death on oats. Notice how America has the highest death-by-gun toll in, probably, the entire world? Because you guys have absolutely no gun control. Let's see what strawman you throw at me just to justify keeping scrap metal around your computer to look "gangsta, yo".

And to finalize: carrying firearms does not make you tough. It doesn't make you edgy. It doesn't make you cool. It doesn't mean you're a man.

You know what makes a man instead of using metal to do the killing for you? A big. Ass. Fucking. Knife.

>>35909

>let me expand on the cancer that is owning a gun

That would be like letting a winfag rant about how free software is bad.

>And it failed

How?

>America is a fucking joke to everyone outside of america

lol

>Notice how America has the highest death-by-gun toll in, probably, the entire world

That would be the Honduras. While we have the highest in the first world, it includes suicide and justified homicide - and all of our gun-related deaths have been on a downwards trend for decades.

>Let's see what strawman you throw at me just to justify keeping scrap metal around your computer to look "gangsta, yo"

yea yea my nigga dat tokarev straight-up OG, bix nood where da white women at

>And to finalize: carrying firearms does not make you tough

It does make you more likely to survive, even if just a little.

>It doesn't make you edgy

Did I say it did? That sounds like something you'd say.

>It doesn't make you cool

Did I say it did?

>It doesn't mean you're a man.

That's right - many women carry concealed as well.

>You know what makes a man instead of using metal to do the killing for you? A big. Ass. Fucking. Knife.

Oh, come on anon, why couldn't you have let on earlier that you were taking the piss? You should know that the person to win a knife fight is the one who bleeds out last, and that firearms are preferable in every single way.

+1 vote for Sanders even if this whole system is rigged. I personally (tho briefly) met him and his team in 2013 and I think he will stand his ground about many important issues. I'm not saying he will unfuck America because there are more powerful entities than the president out there but at least he'll fix some core issues like the health system, decaying infrastructure, etc.

>>22159

>system where winner is predetermine is "mob rule"

>anarchy or bust

are you a troll or something

>>29069

It just means that it is cheaper to hire someone at minimum wage than to automate it. Guess what happens as you make paying some braindead get closer and closer to that line? If you guessed "Joe Robot salesmans' job gets a lot easier" than your correct!

>>22151

>sanders

>pic from facebook

you've got to be kidding me. Reminder to you morons that he is literally a communist, and the most totalitarian regimes in all of history have been communist. If you think we live among sheep now, what until our sheepdogs are replaced by wolves.

For worrying about the future dystopia, you Berniefags seem pretty eager to see it happen in your lifetime.

>>22151

I'm rooting for the Fanders but I'd vote for Trump just to live out my dystopian fantasy.

>>35959

>le sheeps/wolves

>muh totalitarianism

>communism = soviet union

>Sanders = communist

Holy fucking shit read LITERALLY ANYTHING OTHER THAN DUBIOUSLY-SOURCED JPEGS you fucking /pol/yp cunt.

related

>>35974

>/pol/yps

>supports Bernie Panders

Go back to lainchan, shazbot. I saw you shills using the same term on /tech/, too.

>>35974

The man did take his honeymoon in the Soviet Union…

>>36274

What the fuck is that

>>36279

This breaks 8chan.

>>36299

Works fine in my browser

>>28663

>dat reference

>>36904

Engi are mediocre at best though. Literally one step above the dumb rocks, and even then just barely.

>>36274

I'm just gonna break 8ch with you.

………………………………………ฏ๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎๎ํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํํ

>>35915

>"I can't back up why guns are necessary aside from being edgy, I'll just insult the opposition"

>>36965

>overlooks freedom, self defense, and empowering people with choice as the obvious reasons

>overlooks genuine points about the roots of violence

>thinks the post is edgy

>voting for a cuck

>voting for a socialist

>voting for a jew

Trump/Rand 2016 you fucking betas

>>36969

>freedom,

If you need guns to be free, you're not free.

>self defense

Anything other than a gun?

>empowering people

You need guns to feel important and free? See answer 1.

>>37005

>Anything other than a gun?

A powered armor with a high energy particle beam projector would be nice, thank you.

>>36209

>>37005

>If you need guns to be free, you're not free.

Just because you say it doesn't make it true. If you don't have guns you are at the mercy of those who have guns. Look at feudal japan which heavily restricted weapons. Samurai and bandits could roam the land and kill anyone they saw fit, rape anyone's daughter and take anything they liked. The only places that were free from this had secret clans of heavily armed men ready to kill anyone who threatened the village.

>self defense with anything other than a gun

get rekt. guns are the best tool for self defense by every measure. Self defense with a gun results in fewer injuries for both defender and attacker because the attacker knows a gun presents extreme danger to him and often runs away when the gun is drawn. When it is necessary to kill, no man-portable weapon is more effective than a gun. Would you take away my computer because you'd be more comfortable if I mailed my typewritten posts to hotwheels?

To address your third point, it's not about *feeling* important or free, it's about actually having power. The feeling of power and actually having it are two different things, as demonstrated by what the public feels about social media. It's a tool used primarily to manipulate the public, yet they believe that they're using it to influence the government. If you have a gun you have the power to kill those who infringe your personal rights as a free man. If you do not have a gun you must lick police boots in the hope that they'll protect you.

>>37027

Your posts do present adequately tended points. But most of your argument is displaced.

>Look at feudal japan

>Would you take away my computer

>The feeling of power and actually having it are two different things, as demonstrated by what the public feels about social media

You're trying to back up a gun argument with third party evidence. The first point was centuries back and doesn't hold relevancy today. The second one is an over-exaggeration. I never said that you shouldn't have a gun because they make me uncomfortable. The third one wasn't relevant to self defense at all. In your eyes a gun represents power, enough to fend off other people. Isn't that what cyberpunk is trying to eliminate? Trying to take power out of dangerous hands? How is it different a policeman having a gun and you having a gun if you're both going to do the same thing to each other? All you've done is shift the corruption from one body to another.

>>37055

>In your eyes a gun represents power, enough to fend off other people. Isn't that what cyberpunk is trying to eliminate?

bruh.

The point is to take more power for yourself, ideally away from the people that have a ton of it, if cyberpunk deals in transfers and balances of power at all. But even more significantly, cyberpunk isn't "about" any political ideology - it's really not about anything but future noir, high-tech low-life, and the implications of these two.

>>37055

>Isn't that what cyberpunk is trying to eliminate? Trying to take power out of dangerous hands?

Is this corpshill serious? Cyberpunk is about taking responsibility for your own life. Not giving it away to the uniformed thugs of Government PLC.