/cyber/ - Cyberpunk & Science Fiction

>>23287

I don't see how.

As far as I know, there aren't any consumer wrist-mounted computers being made right now, because there's only a market for smartphone cancer. Hell, even laptops are dying off in favor of tablets.

But thanks to the wonders of single-board computers and 3D printing, building your own wrist-mounted computer is pretty viable. I'm going to be doing this myself.

The problem I've ran into so far is with screen size. As you can see in that picture, you either need a big bulky gauntlet thing to give enough real-estate for a decent-sized screen, or you'll have something more elegant but need to settle on a tiny screen that had limited usefulness and keep 7" LCD on you to connect to your computer when you need a bigger screen. But if you're using a single-board computer, you'll most likely be running Linux and doing a lot of shit from the terminal anyways, which is a lot easier to do on a tiny screen than using a GUI. The only problem is browsing the net in that case.

Another limitation you'd be facing is having to work with consumer tech. The reason that companies are able to make ridiculously thin products is because they have access to manufacturers and manufacturing processes that make boards that are packed together as tightly as possible. The drawback with this of course is that everything also has to be soldered onto the board, which is why upgrading one's devices isn't done by many people anymore. So you'll be dealing with technology that, while open-source and able to be tinkered with quite a bit, is also somewhat bulky.

And yet another issue to consider is powering the thing. The biggest capacity battery I've seen that I think could be carried around reasonably comfortably or attached to your arm is 26,000 mAh. I have yet to test how much time this will give you to run an SBC with possibly multiple LCDs, though.

Still, a wrist-mounted computer is one of the few wearable tech projects I can think of that would be actually useful, and it's the closest we can get right now to having cybernetic augmentations. I think it's worthwhile to pursue even if there are some drawbacks to it.

>>23289

A bigger battery that goes into your pocket wouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you keep the cable tight against your body so you don't get snagged on shit. Actually you probably want to delegate as much weight to other locations of the body or arm, you're going to have to lift the thing.

As for terminal use, while that works on smaller screens it also requires full keyboard input. From what I can see of these things, they're probably running some special OS almost like a game console, to facilitate simpler inputs. Working a keyboard into a sleeve is doable with DIY wearable circuitry, but I'm not sure that stuff is very tough. Don't want your keyboard breaking all the time, right?

And of course pursuing this is worthwhile, if only because it's shway as fuck.

>>23298

How very un-/cyber/. I want to replace my smartphone, not become even more dependent on it.

In what sense is it worthless?

Wrist mounted computers will always be useless. A wrist device is only good for basic tasks or as an accessory tethered to a more powerful device.

>>23295

Well, the battery I'm thinking of using weighs a little over a pound I think, which isn't unreasonable for wearing on my arm. But I could also mount it on the top part of my arm so I wouldn't need to lift it, but I don't like having to have a separate rig for that. I think 26,000 mAh will be enough power to keep it going for a practical amount of time. I will definitely post when I finish the project with my results.

But for anything with a larger capacity, keeping it in your pocket becomes the only option basically.

As far as keyboards go: There are actually plenty of single-board computers that can run ARM architecture Linux, and I mean Arch and Debian both have ARM versions, along with many others.

Getting the perfect keyboard is the real problem. Unless you want to use a shitty little wireless keyboard (and we all know wireless a shit), you're looking at either a fully custom made keyboard - which, although schway as fuarrrk, would add a significant amount of difficulty and likely cost to the project - or getting a specialty keyboard meant to be mounted on the arm. This isn't as /cyber/, but I think it's the more sensible option. There are two keyboards I know of like this, and the cheapest you'll get one of these for is 260$ without backlighting.

>>23298

What about making the same thing but with one of those really tiny smartphones? Like the Xperia X10 Mini?

>>23287

The real issue is what you want your wrist mounted computer to do.

Other than tell the time what actual functions do you need it to perform?

If you just want it to tell the time and display a few different statuses then you could hack one together.

I don't think an actual wrist mounted general-purpose computer is possible with present tech.

Why not use a commercial smart watch or smart phone on a custom stap and then link it to a portable homebrew computer you have nearby? You could do the whole gargoyle route and carry it in your backpack.

>>23304

I can think of some (possible) reasons why a specialized wristcom is better than a mounted smartphone.

>no space taken up for phone business (don't know if that's negligible or not)

>no backdoor entries left in by the manufacturer, security by being custom

>full control over the software without having to hack around an existing OS or blocks put up by the manufacturer

>no limitations on size or appearance for marketability, or having to keep costs as low as possible

And if you make an actual keyboard-sleeve it'll beat any smartphone's touch keyboard by miles, I hate those things.

OP here.

>>23305

>Other than tell the time what actual functions do you need it to perform?

My motivation for having a wrist-mounted computer is to replace my smartphone. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, allow me to explain. I only use my smartphone for XMPP and occasional voice calls, as well as an alarm clock. I've always thought it was silly for me to be using this device that had tons of features and functionality I don't need or want, and I also don't like carrying it around.

So, the computer would need to do XMPP and VOIP.

Of course, there are problems with this concept. First of all, it would have to rely solely on wifi instead of being able to utilize the cell network. Second, since you only have one hand available for input, you would have to make some sort of custom keyboard or keypad, which would be cool, but difficult.

I dunno. The more I think about it, the less useful it seems. :/

>>23304

I've got a few reasons to put forward that I'll just add to this user's post >>23306 since they said a lot of what I was thinking:

If we're assuming that a wrist-mounted computer can do anything a smartphone can do, then a wrist-mounted computer becomes more preferable immediately because it's just schway. You didn't just go down to your local Fry's and buy a normie consumer product that has already been preconfigured with shit you don't want or need and is filled with proprietary tech and software. You're in control and what you make is something unique and cool. I think having that level of connection to the tech you use should be important to people like us on /cyber/, and there's something to be said for having something that's just cool.

Having more control over your device also means that you have more control over security-related things, and we all know that our smartphones are basically tracking devices. The computer you'd be using for this project doesn't constantly emit a signal and doesn't have backdoors (unless you're buying a board from a shit manufacturer, but that's up to you).

On the subject of integrating with tech: This is about the closest we can currently get to having cybernetic augmentations. If that in itself isn't enough to pursue this project, I don't know what is.

Smartphones, although they are essentially computers, are not intended to be used as such. They're made to be Facebook and mobile gaming machines, essentially, and happen to be able to do real computing shit if you hack them - and even then, smartphones are clunky and not ideal for doing any serious computing. Not only on the software side of things, however, but hardware-wise you cannot do fucking anything. You have an audio jack, one micro-USB port, and that's usually it. You also cannot upgrade anything except maybe storage. With this sort of project, on the other hand, you can potentially have four USB ports, ethernet, audio, HDMI, USB host, and whatever other shit the board might have.

Not only that, but you can use a fully-featured OS, whereas on a smartphone the best you can get is Android. You can install fucking Arch or Gentoo on your single-board computer if you want, or boot from a live Kali Linux flash drive and derezz skiddies in the field.

Virtual Reality: While the technology may not quite be there yet (I don't know about this for certain), I imagine there will be more support on Linux distros than in smartphones given that VR will probably be a pretty niche thing. So, with that in mind; one could have a wrist-mounted computer connected to a VR headset with cameras and with your wallpaper as the feed from your cameras. You just augmented reality, chummer. Terminals overlaying the real world and shit.

There are also some drawbacks of course, as pointed out here >>23307 but the keyboard issue isn't anywhere near difficult to solve. It's only difficult if you want to go full 200% schway and make your own custom keyboard, which I personally think just isn't worth the amount of time, skill and brouzouf that would go into that. There are keyboards out there made specifically to be worn on the wrist, and they aren't impossibly expensive.

It isn't an ideal solution, but as far as not having constant internet access is concerned: There are these hotspot things you can buy that are connected to a 4G/LTE network. But, you need to pay a monthly fee for these, and it could potentially be just as much a tracking device as your phone. So that's one potential major compromise.

>>23287

>What is a smart watch

>>23289

>26,000 mAh

got a part number, bb?

can we at least call it the Pip-Boy?

>>23317

Smart watches are consumer iTrash that don't have anything close to the capabilities of a single-board computer.

>>23320

It's actually 25,600 mAh apparently, but yeah: AK-A1210011

WMD's suck because it sounds great, but eventually your arm will get tired.

HMD is the way to go.

>>23318

>The Samsung Gear S is a stand-alone system that has 512mb RAM, 4gb internal storage, and doesn't not require a phone to use it.

So it needs a phone?

>>23338

Also, wow those specs are shit

>>23344

>I should have stopped reading there

No, I should have stopped reading here.

When the fuck did /cyber/ get filled with no fun allowed angry neckbeards? If a wrist-mounted computer has the same level of functionality that a smartphone has - as you yourself admitted in a previous post - then even something as seemingly stupid and superficial as it just being cooler makes it a better option.

>no just buy a smartphone and attach it to your wrist

>just buy a smart watch

>don't make anything yourself

>don't do any hacks that aren't 100% practical

Sorry but I'm legitimately a little annoyed right now. I don't really understand what the motivation is for you to be defending having a smartphone over something you've made yourself with open-source hardware and software, that can do more than the smartphone, and that can be upgraded on the hardware end of things more easily than a smartphone can.

I don't really feel like getting into addressing every tiny point about my post, because frankly I think it's pointless hairsplitting; not that you don't raise some fine objections, but at the end of the day I am just not seeing any reason to prefer a smartphone over a DIY wrist-mounted computer unless you are that concerned with convenience - and if that's the case, you are the cancerous consumer fucks that make shit like unibody smartphones that are obsolete within a year possible.

But there are a few things I want to point out that will probably lead to me addressing most of your points anyways:

>implying that modular smartphones are going to get anywhere

Why? The only project out there right now is the Neo900, and that thing is going to be expensive as fuck for outdated hardware. It's a cool idea, but it's also a super niche thing. There's no reason whatsoever why the market would ever be accommodating to modular phones; people will continue to buy the same unibody shit because it's thin and pretty and idiot proof.

>deploy Linux on an Android device

I'm aware that you can do this. I have Linux Deploy on my phone. And you know what? Using Linux with a touchscreen is just unpleasant as fuck.

>subdermal implants are the closest current thing to cybernetic augs

Maybe if you want to get really pedantic with the definition, then yeah, you're right. But subdermal implants, to my knowledge, don't have much usefulness and don't actually augment your daily life very much. Make yourself a DIY Google Glass-esque kind of display, connect it to your wrist-mounted computer, and you just augmented your vision.

Which brings me to:

>VR headsets

I've been lurking in the deck thread. There doesn't seem to be much that has been done with trying to get a VR headset working with a single-board computer. It does seem to be the case that there aren't currently any VR headsets that could work with a single-board computer, but both are relatively new consumer technologies. Within a few years, wrist-mounted computers will have gained yet another advantage over smartphones when they work with SBCs; for now, I'm thinking of it more as a conceptual reason to prefer them over smartphones.

As far as development in VR goes: considering that there aren't any consumer VR headsets out yet, I'm not too worried about more Linux development being seen in the next few years.

>more i/o doesn't matter on a wrist-mounted computer

Maybe if you're just walking around or some shit, then yeah, it would be incredibly clunky. But the same can be said for a smartphone with some accessories. But if you've got a 7" LCD and a 60% mechanical keyboard on you, whenever you're doing stationary work you can have a desktop wherever you want.

>security

>readjusts tinfoil hat

If you really think that only Chinese phones and Samsung have backdoors, I have to say that's pretty naive. Now, you can get around this by using Replicant, but Replicant also has a pretty limited amount of phones it supports. And as far as controlling your signal goes: You can choose what you want information you want your phone to allow to 3rd party apps and such, and you can get one of those OffPockets if you're really paranoid, but if the megacorps or the State wanted to find out where you were or what you're doing, I highly doubt that the option to turn off locational information in CyanogenMod is going to save your ass.

Again, though, the biggest issue I have here is that I just don't see a good reason to prefer a smartphone over a wrist-mounted computer.

>>23374

*when they work with VR

>>23374

>even something as seemingly stupid and superficial as it just being cooler makes it a better option

It's not just that making something yourself can look cooler, making shit just brings a level of satisfaction. It's also usually a hobby, and you probably learn shit along the way. Nothing wrong with that, right?

It also occurred to me that using a smartphone while wearing a headset is terrible. You can learn to type blindly on a keyboard, but touchscreens' lack of tactile feedback makes that pretty much impossible. Even with haptic feedback based on vibrations it won't be the same. So sleeve-keyboards themselves are a good idea no matter if they'll be used for a WMD or a smartphone.

>>23383

I think this is a fair position to take.

Now, I will maintain that I wouldn't be willing to spend the time and brouzouf to make a DIY wrist-mounted computer if I thought it would be less-practical than a smartphone. I think in some ways it will in fact be more practical and just better, but there are some definite drawbacks to consider, yes, and you don't need a wrist-mounted computer when you could just go buy a smartphone, install Replicant, and make a mold to mount it on your wrist.

You could very well do that, but there wouldn't be any sort of advantage to it. It's just easier, and easier =/= better.

I'm also interested in the Pyra. I would probably be going totally overboard if I got a Pyra, was using a wrist-mounted computer with a second LCD and keyboard, carrying around my ThinkPad everywhere, and having a burner and an MP3 player, but it is a fucking cool tiny computer to play games on, and having a shitload of gear is pretty /cyber/ if you ask me as long as it's useful, you know how to use it, and you don't have it for the sake of being a consumerist fuck.

Still, it does annoy me slightly that there is no rational basis for choosing something for the sake of aesthetics and individuality. But humans do tend to place importance on those things, and they are nice to have.

>>23390

I meant typing while your face is covered by a VR screen, Swype won't change that. I'm not too fond of touchscreen keyboards in general, but wouldn't go through the trouble of making a keyboard sleeve just for that.

>>23298

un-schway af

>>23392

Oh, I'm sorry I misread your post; in that I agree with you previous statement. Although I'd rather just wait for stuff like Leap Motion's Dragonfly sensor to get integrated into HMDs so we can have video passthrough at varying degrees of transparency but I digress.

>>23396

>not using megacorp normie tech against the powers that be

You're un-schway af.

>>23390

A small misunderstanding, then. I've had this idea in mind for a long time now and I'm confident that it's going to be a very usable device with some features that will make it better than a smartphone, but I suppose we'll see. You may end up being right here.

I hadn't heard of Ara before, actually. That is kind of a cool idea, but from my superficial overview of it so far, it appears to still be pretty much consumer tech on par with what Razer is trying to do with building a desktop with their "Project Christine" concept. It's something, but I'm not sure it's much to be that excited about.

While you could do that wrist-mounted smartphone thing, I don't think it'd be any less clunk than trying to use all the other i/o stuff on the go. I could see it being worse, in fact, because you'd be mostly limited to using a touchscreen.

As far as portable displays go: Adafruit sells some in 7" and I think 10" sizes. They come as a screen and the controller, and that's about it; you can make your own case to suit your needs so it does end up being uncomfortable to use.

As far as security goes: While it is true that if you're in a situation where the Feds are actively trying to find you, you're probably fucked anyways, I still am skeptical over how much the features of CyanogenMod et. al. actually limit the amount of information you're sending out.

But anyways, I'm not particularly worried about maintenance or user freedom being much of an issue. I guess you may want to think twice before doing parkour with a computer on your wrist, and you'd need a way to make it waterproof to use it in all weather conditions, but other than that the point is, ideally, to integrate the device into your daily life as much as possible and augment your daily life. Hence the DIY Glass HUD that I also want to use with this.

I've probably said this before, but we make far too many concessions for convenience in the first-world, to the point that we'd prefer to work wage slave jobs in order to afford a safe, comfortable, boring life that we try to make exciting with inane consumerism. Convenience is nice, but it isn't everything.

I'll most likely post when I finish my project and have been using it awhile to let you all know how it's worked out for me and whether it really is in practice useful and schway to have a wrist-mounted computer. That link also looks like it'll have a lot of useful shit for me to look over.

>>23338

No

>>23340

It's literally a watch sorry it doesn't have 500gb RAM, holy shit.

>>23446

There are chips the size of my pinky that have literally 32x that storage space. 10GB would at least be nice. Maybe a GB of RAM.

>>23447

Its still relatively new. Give it a bit for them to improve the little things.

>>23465

Very slick figuring out their marketing doublespeak like that. I missed it.

>>23446

>500GB

>Not attaching a datacenter to your arm

>>23301

/thread

>>23502

Agreed this thread is kill.

>>23298

Neat

I prefer the term, Arm-terminal.

>>30900

icwutudidther

checked.

one idea I had was to use a wrist-mounted digital photo frame USB-attached to a small computer elsewhere on your person, such as your waist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_photo_frame

there are guides and forums out there for hacking these frames but after that you're mostly on your own, and I'm not yet technical enough to go any further than that but there is great /cyber/ potential

>>30926

Any particular reason you'd use a digital photo frame and not something like link related?

https://archive.is/Gcfka

>>30938

it's extra weight and bulk on your wrist, and you still have to power it

there is also the risk of losing your whole computer to moisture or damage, versus losing a a $5 display

touchscreens are nice though

>>30961

>5-6 buttons

>linux terminal

Pick one.

>Thoughts?

Sounds pretty good. I would use low energy consumption monochrome display because it is mostly used for text data. Also would add a couple more buttons, wi-fi auto turn-off for battery saving. Maybe camera and mic because when I was a kid, everyone dreamed about spy gadgets.

>>30986

>everyone dreamed about spy gadgets.

But they sold those in toy stores, I had all of them and despite the time and being toy they were pretty shway.

For the life of me I cannot fathom the reason why you want a portable computer and then resent the idea of a smart phone. Isn't it the same thing? And why the hell would you take a perfectly good device and just strap it onto your arm so it can easily be stolen or break next time you trip over? Smartphones pretty much are the exact same thing you're looking for and better. They're the future that people were waiting for for a long time and finally got. You guys may gab about his much you love tech and all that, but at the same time spit in the eye of any real progress that doesn't come in all black with blinking lights and tubes that connect to your head.

>>31156

Because smart phones are locked down toys atm. Only good smartphone I know is the N900, and it was made before Android and Apple dumbed down everything.

>>23300

THIS

>>23301

SHILL

>>31183

That's not even a shill, shazbot. A shill is someone who praises a brand or product, he(>>23300) is saying that wrist-mounted devices just plain suck.

It seems kinda unnecessary.

>>30986

I meant the screen was a terminal. Like all of those things like the feed, email, time, and music would be in a terminal. Then those buttons would bind to a command, but yeah monochrome display sounds good. Not sure why you'd want a camera though. How would you take a picture? It'd be so awkward.

wrist mounted computer is 1950s fallout fagpunk not cyberpunk fuck off

>>23300

idiot shut the fuck up thats about the exact execution of your gay fantasy for a wrist mounted computer. if the military made a wrist mounted computer, that's exactly what it would be. fuck off.

>>23298

Why don't you just take the phone screen and have all the bulky internal components of the computer in a pocket, like that other anon suggested with the battery?

>>23465

You're a special type of stupid, but you have Frozen mae-maes loitering around your PC.It's my fault for expecting anything more of people on 8chan.

>"Doesn't require a phone"

Happy?

>>35760

Also yes I realize I am five months late to replying, I'm busy.